The Fourth!

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ex-khobar Andy
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Re: The Fourth!

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

This piece in the NYT is worth a read. It's got graphs and stuff so it might be beyond some of our more casual readers (hint: OK no hints, it's Sunday and my mother told me not to be unkind to people on Sundays but the rest of the week is fine).

Using several measures - health costs, lifespan, union membership, minimum wage, income distribution - it shows how the US lags much of the world.

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RayThom
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The Fourth!

Post by RayThom »

I had problems linking to to x-kA's NYT story above. You may want to try this if you do.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... ality.html
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“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.” 

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: The Fourth!

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Thanks Ray - I'm not sure why there should be a problem because the links look identical. It might be because I have a subscription so maybe there is some technical difference which is not obvious. I'd be interested to hear from anyone if Ray's link works while mine does not, and I can maybe figure out what is going on. Whatever works . . .

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BoSoxGal
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Re: The Fourth!

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ex-khobar Andy wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:17 pm
Thanks Ray - I'm not sure why there should be a problem because the links look identical. It might be because I have a subscription so maybe there is some technical difference which is not obvious. I'd be interested to hear from anyone if Ray's link works while mine does not, and I can maybe figure out what is going on. Whatever works . . .
Your link goes to the comments section on the piece - which can be closed to get back to the article. Ray’s link goes straight to the piece.

It’s a really good piece.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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BoSoxGal
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Re: The Fourth!

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My fourth was frustrating in that my neighbors 3 houses down set off very loud explosives fireworks for more than three hours - that’s after several weeks of fireworks just about every night. Tonight I start calling the PD every time, as they’ve announced on their Facebook page a willingness to intervene (fireworks are illegal in Massachusetts) in what has become a scourge of neighbors terrorizing neighbors all over my small city in recent weeks.

My poor border collie has been frantic with stress despite getting sedated prior to the start of the explosions the last two nights - many people don’t realize that because of their much greater hearing acuity, dogs can’t be protected by the AC or the TV up loud or a fan running - they can still hear the explosions and can suffer permanent hearing damage. According to the local shelter/animal control, a healthy 4 year old dog in my community died of a heart attack last night from fireworks induced stress - and far too many beasts laughed at that in their reply comments.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: The Fourth!

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For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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dales
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Re: The Fourth!

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Quiet as a tomb here on July 4th.

Jackie my 5-year old Jack Russell Terrier did well.

I offer my thanks for that,

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


yrs,
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dales
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Re: The Fourth!

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Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


yrs,
rubato

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BoSoxGal
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Re: The Fourth!

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One thing that did cheer up my fourth; I signed up for Disney+ and finally got to see what all the talk was about - I saw Hamilton!

As a onetime regular theater attendee (used to work at a performing arts center in college) I definitely know the special magic of seeing performances live, but the film is very well made - and since I didn’t have the $400+ per ticket plus travel/lodging expenses to NYC to see it when it opened, and tickets were nearly impossible to get anyway without paying far in excess of base price, I’m very glad to have seen this filmed performance with the original brilliant cast. I am watching it again today and will likely watch it several more times before my month of Disney+ expires.

I’ve never been a big listener of hip hop or rap so I’ve had to pick up on some of the inside references via reading reviews, but I think the work stands apart from that anyway for those who are similarly not hip hop/rap culture aficionados. The songs are wonderful and the casting of BIPOC in all the major roles except King George is just brilliant. I think there’s a lot going on in this work of art that actually challenges a traditional lauding of our founders, but all those layers aren’t necessary to contemplate if what one wants is just to celebrate the greatness of the founding ideals of the USA, as unfulfilled as they may still be for so many of us. It’s a wonderful work for folks all along the political spectrum to enjoy - except not likely to be enjoyed much by racists due to the colorful cast.

I highly recommend it to anyone remotely interested; you can get a month of Disney+ for a measly $6.99, a tiny fraction of the ticket price and since Broadway is shut down at least until 2021 and traveling productions probably as well, and since many of us older fragile folks won’t be going to packed theaters again for a really long time, it’s a great way to enjoy the show. Plus there is a ton of other cool stuff on the service that you can enjoy with the rest of your month.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: The Fourth!

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BIPOC?  Great, just what we need.  Another helping of alphabet soup we need to learn and use to show how 'woke' we are.

I too had the chance to see Hamilton on broadcast TV as well, but I chose not to — and for several reasons.

Reason #1 — I feel this is a novelty casting, much the same way they redid "The Wizard of Oz" as the now badly-dated "The Wiz" with a mostly-black cast or 1938's "The Terror of Tiny Town", a Western with an all-midget cast.
Reason #2 — Besides the questionable portrayal of historically white figures — and make no mistake about it; Hamilton et al WERE white men, so you can't swap them for a black actor or actress as easily as you can for a fictional character like Hermione Granger (played by Noma Dumezweni <who?> in Harry Potter and the Cursed Child) or Ariel the Little Mermaid (played by Halle Bailey in Disney's live-action remake of their immensely popular 1989 animated film) — I feel they are also making a HUGE fucking mistake by employing (c)rap and hip-hop music.  Sure, people said the same thing when Andrew Lloyd Webber scored "Jesus Christ Superstar" to rock music ... but chanting rhymes to a synthesized drum and cymbal beat doesn't even begin to measure up to the musical magnificence of Webber's craft.  Not to mention that there are several nuances and genres of 'rock' music.  Rap is, by comparison, a one-trick pony.
Reason #3 — I flatly refuse to pay any more of my money to the House of the Mouse than I have to.  I've gotten by quite well so far without any of the streaming services or pay-to-play channels up to now, and I feel that I won't miss them in the relatively short time I have left on this planet.

Instead, after finishing work in mid-afternoon yesterday, I observed my long-standing 4th of July tradition of getting out my DVD of the 1972 film "1776", based on the 1969 Broadway sensation and featuring many of the original Broadway actors reprising their roles for the film.  I then followed it up with a screening of the 1962 film "The Music Man", based on Meredith Willson's multiple Tony-winning Broadway hit of 1957, in which I got all the 'rap' (or as it was called then, 'patter') I needed in the opening song "The Rock Island Line" and again in "Ya Got Trouble".

And I'll bet I enjoyed my day at least as much as you enjoyed yours.
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Guinevere
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Re: The Fourth!

Post by Guinevere »

On Hamilton, definitely watch it. I’m so glad they made it available, it is the best show I have ever seen. When Broadway and the touring shows start up again, do try to see it live - there is nothing like it. You can usually get face value tickets if you sign up for HamiltononBroadway.com, and they will let you know when new blocks are released. You just won’t be able to go tomorrow. There is also a Hamilton app which will tell you when the show is going to be near you, and help you try to get tickets. I’ve seen it three times (Chicago, Broadway, Providence) and never used ticket resellers or paid over face value.

On the problems with our country and approaching the Fourth. Yes, it did feel off to me a bit, but we listened to Bryan Stevenson on On The Media this afternoon (a re-broadcast) driving back from Connecticut, and some of his comments helped me sort through some things. This link to his interview is here:

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/o ... t-happened

His summary comments here:
BROOKE GLADSTONE: You’ve said many times that “no person” is the worst thing that they've ever done, and yet it seems that we as a country cannot get past the worst thing that we have ever done.

BRYAN STEVENSON: I don't think our nation believes that the genocide of Native people is the worst thing we've ever done or slavery is the worst thing we've ever done or lynching is the worst thing we’ve ever done or even segregation. I think we've actually created a narrative that those things weren't that bad and not only do we not need to recover from that, we don't even need to be remorseful about that. There is no shame.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: But it is the worst thing we've ever done.

BRYAN STEVENSON: It is, in fact. And, and I want the nation to have the courage to own up to that, with the knowledge that if they own up to that they won't be condemned by it, that there is something on the other side of it, which is why we do this work. I represent a lot of people who’ve done terrible things and it’s in that context that I've come to understand that we are all more than the worst thing we’ve ever done. We are more than a country that perpetrated the genocide. We’re more than a slave society. We’re more than a lynching society. We’re more than a segregation society. But we cannot ignore that bad thing we did. And there is redemption waiting. There is recovery waiting. There is reconciliation waiting. There’s something that feels more like justice than what we have experienced in America. There is something better waiting for us, without this burden, this history of racial inequality holding us down. But we can't get there through silence, by pretending that the history doesn't exist. We’ve got to own up to it.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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BoSoxGal
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Re: The Fourth!

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I can’t recommend Bryan’s book highly enough. There’s also an excellent documentary about him and his work, and the feature film Just Mercy is also admirable.

For those of you who don’t know, he was the driving force behind the national lynching memorial in Montgomery; it’s a place that all citizens should visit, even if only digitally. https://museumandmemorial.eji.org/
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Guinevere
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Re: The Fourth!

Post by Guinevere »

BB —— The casting in Hamilton is not “novelty” it is to make a point. And most of the music is not rap or hip hop, although a chunk of it is.

It is far, better, and more interesting, more musical, and more accurate, than the overdone 1776 (which I love for what it is, but it ain’t great or groundbreaking theatre).

You can listen to the Hamilton soundtrack for free on Amazon music and I’m sure other places. Try it out. Skip around and sample some pieces. Read the lyrics. Open your mind and imagine. You could surprise yourself.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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BoSoxGal
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Re: The Fourth!

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Watching Hamilton! and then doing some reading today, I am persuaded that Aaron Burr was wronged by our high school history textbooks and certainly by Hamilton’s and Jefferson’s sneering at him in his time, questioning his character and commitment to our nation's founding ideals.

They’re all complicated men with hypocrisy in the balance between their personal actions and stated ideals, but Burr is the only one of them to have introduced after the Revolutionary War not only a measure to immediately and fully emancipate slaves in New York, but also one to give women the vote. That’s pretty remarkable stuff that in my view makes him a fair bit more heroic than either of the other two.

I’m resolved to find a good biography of Burr for my ‘to be read’ list.

Here’s a piece that says a bit about what makes Burr much more intriguing to me:

Forget Hamilton, Burr Is the Real Hero

As the piece echoes the theme of Hamilton!, it’s all about who tells your story. As we reconsider all our founding history in these times of reckoning, it seems like Burr deserves another assessment. He seems to me to be the founder I would most like to sit and have a beer with, and who would most be likely to muster respect for me.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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RayThom
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The Fourth!

Post by RayThom »

I've said it before, history goes to the best writer.

The list of unsung heroes is probably endless.
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Guinevere
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Re: The Fourth!

Post by Guinevere »

Count me in the list of those who think Thomas Jefferson had or has the best press of all. A gifted writer and thinker, but not my guy. My revolutionary war heroes have always been Abigail and John Adams, and both have their Achilles heels.

The founders were all pretty incredible men who stepped up and onto one of the most defining eras of humankind. But they were men, and every single one of them was damn flawed. I don’t think Hamilton tried to whitewash A.Ham’s flaws at all — which is part of why I love it. Also, Leslie Odoms, Jr. gave an incredible performance as Burr — so at least the boy genius gave him that much!

I don’t know that Burr was all that. Certainly the duel ended his life almost as completely as it did Hamilton’s. As I vaguely recall, he fled west, got involved in other misdeeds, and ended up on trial for reason. Then he fled to Europe. I don’t recall what happened to him after that, except both of his Theodosias died young.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Econoline
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Re: The Fourth!

Post by Econoline »

BSG, have you read Gore Vidal's novel Burr? I know, it's not a biography...but much of it is well-researched, and it's well worth reading.
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BoSoxGal
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Re: The Fourth!

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I put this on my holds list at the local library; looks like someone - a female historian! - has already done the scholarship and redeemed Burr’s reputation.

Fallen Founder

It almost sounds like Burr was a really decent person who was simply the subject of the same kind of long term character assassination by political opponents as Hillary Clinton. I am eager to read this biography!

I do know from my reading today in online sources that despite Jefferson’s going after him full bore in what appears a politically motivated prosecution, Burr was cleared of all treason charges brought against him regarding his western adventuring, and there was even evidence of a frame up - so it seems he was clearly targeted by the elites of his time.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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BoSoxGal
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Re: The Fourth!

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Econoline wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:58 am
BSG, have you read Gore Vidal's novel Burr? I know, it's not a biography...but much of it is well-researched, and it's well worth reading.
I saw that in my searching and will add it to my reading list, thanks for the personal endorsement. I love Gore Vidal’s writing, so I’m sure I will appreciate it!
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Long Run
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Re: The Fourth!

Post by Long Run »

BoSoxGal wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:05 am

It almost sounds like Burr was a really decent person
Who, rather than showing character, without dispute shot Hamilton, who most likely intentionally shot to miss. Really decent. And . .
his western adventuring,
In which he tried to create an empire that he could rule, not once but twice. Really decent.

And comparing him to Hillary Clinton -- the second most reviled politician in our lifetimes (and if you need a history lesson why so many people despise her, you really do need some historical educating) -- just completes the endorsement of poor Aaron Burr.

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