Christian nationalism

[ex-khobar Andy]

I think David Dunning and Justin Kruger should be awarded the 2023 Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine. There is plenty of proof of their theory and we don't need any more. Maybe if they get their Nobel people will no longer see the necessity of piling on the proof. (See Marjorie Taylor Green and Louis Gohmert and Lauren Boebert and [a late entry but catching up fast] Herschel Walker and of course the early favorite TFG.)

[Sue U]

His remark is tasteless and stupid - what else? - but as much as I detest the man, I don't think he meant anything "anti-Semitic". It's just his usual clueless asshole way of expressing himself - which I blame on early toilet training.

It matters not a whit whether he "meant anything 'anti-Semitic.'" What he obviously "meant" is "there is something wrong with all you Jews who aren't supporting me," because literally everything he says is all about him and how wonderful he is and why is he being treated so unfairly by all these nefarious forces (who control the media, the "deep state," the international order, the space laser, etc.). In his relentless whining, he uses all the tropes and subtexts of Nazis and white supremacists and gives voice to unapologetic bigotry, which emboldens the racists and fascists in his hard-core base; there is a reason they see him as their champion. Here, he is using a "divided loyalty" slur to simultaneously suggest that American Jews' chief concern is (or should be) Israel and that because Jews overwhelmingly express negative opinions about him in political polling there is a Jewish conspiracy against him -- and thus The Jews writ large are the enemy.

The creeping normalization of racism, anti-Semitism and nationalism in American politics is an extremely dangerous trend, as anyone familiar with the history of the Weimar Republic could tell you.

[ex-khobar Andy]

Oh I think soi-disant 'genius' Ye knew exactly what he was doing.

[MajGenl.Meade]

It matters not a whit whether he "meant anything 'anti-Semitic etc etc

I thought he was suggesting that American Jewish people didn't support Israel strongly enough whereas Evangelicals were all out for Israel.

Checking the original message he posted (and not the segmented pieces within stories) I see that I misunderstood the first part completely. What you wrote is correct (you knew, right?). He's saying that he did a lot for Israel and that American Evangelicals appreciate that (him) more than do American Jews.

[Also I didn't get that PM remark until seeing the original text - it's clear he's saying that Jews in Israel give him the popularity he deserves whereas . . . .]

That does change the whole tenor of his message and I must agree that it is was and is anti-semitic.

[BoSoxGal]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/03/us/fbi-n ... index.html

Sue I am thinking of you and yours and hoping you keep safe.

Just sickened by so much silence around the antisemitism extolled by Kanye and Kyrie and their ilk. I hoped we were better but apparently we are not.

[MajGenl.Meade]

[Sue U]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/03/us/fbi-n ... index.html

Sue I am thinking of you and yours and hoping you keep safe.

Just sickened by so much silence around the antisemitism extolled by Kanye and Kyrie and their ilk. I hoped we were better but apparently we are not.

We have a security guard at our synagogue on Shabbat, holidays and days when the religious school is in session, as does the Conservative congregation up the street; but I don't think any of the Orthodox congregations and schools around here do. I have very mixed feelings about having such guards, both as to their necessity and effectiveness, but I guess it makes some people feel safer. I mean, we have actual Nazis in the neighborhood and our town is periodically a target for anti-semitic and racist garbage because of its relatively large Jewish population -- like the way Nazis used to always want to march in Skokie, IL during the '70s-'80s. (Insert obligatory Blues Brothers "I hate Illinois Nazis" reference here.) Although this kind of shit has been going on forever, it does seem these assholes have been significantly emboldened over the last six years or so, I wonder why that could possibly be? But the mainstreaming of anti-semitism both overtly and as a side-effect (or perhaps the direct effect) of Christian nationalism does cause me considerable concern.

[liberty]

This is perhaps off the subject, but I'm curious. What is wrong with American nationalism? Is it that the United States are not really a nation? We are just a collection of interest groups. And there's nothing sacred about our union; we created a device to protect us from the British when they refused to leave their forts in the west after the Revolutionary War. We made the union, and we can unmake it.

Nationalism is a good thing when other people in the world practice it, especially in third-world countries, but it's evil when Americans care about the good of the United States and look out for our interest.

[MajGenl.Meade]

[liberty]

If there is a simple Simon here, it is you because your picture says nothing. So I have to guess, but you believe in the government's total power to own the people, whereas I believe in the power of the people. Not the lynch mob you would accept, but in the federal system, we have. Federalism is too much for you to comprehend, so why don't you move back to England, you imperialist pig? If you don't believe the people of the states have the right to take down what they built, you are an imperialist.

[MajGenl.Meade]

It was meant to illustrate the quality of your questions (What is wrong with American nationalism? Is it that the United States are not really a nation?):

Simple Simon met a Pie-man
Going to the fair
said Simple Simon to the Pie-man
What do you have there?
"Pies, you stupid bastard"

[Gob]

[BoSoxGal]

I was going to post last night and ask ‘what does this mean?’

I am apparently too young to have this in my lexicon.

[ex-khobar Andy]

On the subject of nationalism (not specifically Christian) this is perhaps the most succinct sentence explaining the problem, thanks to Gordon Brown, ex-UK Prime Minister.

The win-win economics of mutually beneficial commerce is being replaced by the zero-sum rivalries of “I win, you lose”, as movements such as “America first”, “China first”, “India first” and “Russia first”, “my tribe first”, threaten to descend into an us versus them geopolitics of “my country first and only”.

[Bicycle Bill]

The Senator from Wisconsin cannot frighten me by exclaiming, “My country, right or wrong.”  In one sense I say so too.  My country; and my country is the great American Republic.  My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.

(Carl Schurz, a German emigre and senator from Missouri (1869-1875), responding in 1872 on the Senate floor to Matthew H. Carpenter re: the famous slogan derived from a statement of Stephen Decatur: "Our country!  In her intercourse with foreign nations, may she always be in the right; but our country, right or wrong.")

-"BB"-

[Burning Petard]

" In her intercourse with foreign nations, may she always be in the right; but our country, right or wrong" For me now, it seems to be the undergirding principle of the Republican party that in her intercourse with her own citizens-- Fuck 'em. Build that hotel in DC with the president's rented name on the outside on the building that was once constructed to serve all citizens. Screw the hired chef out of his promised wages. Build the fake border wall with lots of taxpayer money going to cronies. Talk about 'infrastructure' at every State of the Union Address, and then do nothing. That is the GOP way. grab all the money you can. Show me a GOP politician, going back to President IKE, that leaves a national office with less money than he had when he was elected.

For me, 'Christian Nationalism' is an oxymoron bordering on blasphemy.

snailgate