The tattoos and camps are coming

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: The tattoos and camps are coming

Post by Bicycle Bill »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:32 am
What I have done is object to equating the Holocaust with a not-a-chance-in-hell-of-passing "bill" that seeks to restrict what kinds of teachings are given to children below the age of 11 in pubic schools.
It wasn't much more than six or seven years ago, when the Donald announced he was running for President, that the general consensus was that *he* didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning, either.  Then look what happened.

And how many people thought that fewer than 100 people could hold a Supreme Court justice nomination in limbo over partisanship for over a full year?  Or that an angry, armed mob would openly threaten the lives of duly-elected legislators for doing their Constitutional duty, and invade the Capitol Building in an unapologetic attempt to prevent them from carrying out that task?

Never say 'never'.
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Burning Petard
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Re: The tattoos and camps are coming

Post by Burning Petard »

Better to say 'never again' and do something meaningful. I leave it as an exercise for the student to decide what act would be meaningful. I will not leave paper trail.

snailgate.

Jarlaxle
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Re: The tattoos and camps are coming

Post by Jarlaxle »

Bicycle Bill wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:15 pm
MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:32 am
What I have done is object to equating the Holocaust with a not-a-chance-in-hell-of-passing "bill" that seeks to restrict what kinds of teachings are given to children below the age of 11 in pubic schools.
It wasn't much more than six or seven years ago, when the Donald announced he was running for President, that the general consensus was that *he* didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning, either.  Then look what happened.
He ran against a caricature of a mother in law from hell.
Treat Gaza like Carthage.

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Joe Guy
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Re: The tattoos and camps are coming

Post by Joe Guy »

I believe that the popular vote count in 2016 and 2020 was against Trump rather than for Clinton and Biden.

That's the only thing that gives me some hope for the 2024 election. It's possible that the republicans could nominate a candidate in the primaries who isn't Trump or a Trumpanzee. At this point I'm not happy with the large amount of republicans who seem to have sold their souls to Trump and continue his method of spreading hatred rather than proposing a plan to unite and fix this country.

To republicans it seems to be all about beating the "woke" people and flakes on the far left and trying to portray them as typical democrats. They use fear (they're gonna take yer guns) and say that democrats are for abortion all the way up to a child's birth and afterward and they keep saying democrats want an open border to allow evil people into this country.

It's scary. I really am worried about the power that Trumpler seems to have over gullible people. I'm also worried their are more gullible people than there are thinking people.

I hope I'm wrong about how the republican majority think but I'm not very confident in them at the moment.

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Scooter
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Re: The tattoos and camps are coming

Post by Scooter »

America’s worst anti-trans bill would imprison supportive parents of trans youth for life

Conservative lawmakers in Michigan have introduced America’s worst anti-trans bill yet: threatening doctors and parents of trans kids with life in prison for allowing minors to access gender-affirming care.

Introduced by Michigan State Rep. Ryan Berman (R-Union Lake) on Oct. 11, House Bill 6454 seeks to change the state’s definition of child abuse to include anyone who “knowingly or intentionally consents to, obtains or assists with a gender transition procedure for a child.” Fellow House Reps. Steve Carra (R-Lansing), Luke Meerman (R-Coopersville), Beau LaFave (R-Iron Mountain) and Steve Marino (R-Harrison Township) have all co-signed the bill.

If signed into law, supportive parents and trans-affirming medical providers could be charged with first-degree child abuse, which is classified a felony in Michigan. According to the state penal code, convictions under the charge are “punishable by imprisonment for life or any term of years.”

Berman has yet to comment on HB 6454, but this isn’t the first anti-LGBTQ2S+ bill in 2022 with his name on it. Earlier this year, Berman co-sponsored legislation to ban schools from hosting drag queen events.

“This bill helps focus on the proper role of our schools,” Berman said in July comments to the Michigan Advance news outlet. “It’s a defence against those that wish to pervert, groom and sexualize our children. Transvestite strippers should not be around kids. Why do they even want an audience of children?” (Sure, let's invent something that has never happened, because the average Republican voter is stupid enough to believe it, or evil enough not to care that it is false.)

HB 6454, which has yet to come up for a hearing in the Michigan Legislature, was met with universal condemnation from LGBTQ2S+ advocates when it was put forward last week. In an email, American Civil Liberties Union attorney Jay Kaplan tells Xtra that HB 6454 “substitutes the political agenda of right-wing politicians for the medical judgments of experts in the transgender healthcare field.”

Kaplan continues, “Charging parents with criminal abuse for supporting gender affirming care for their transgender child is a cynical political attack that has no place in Michigan.”

HB 6454 represents just the most extreme version of legislation attempting to criminalize the support that trans children receive. In April, Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey signed a bill punishing medical providers who provide healthcare to trans minors with a sentence of up to 10 years in prison. Under a law enacted in Arkansas last year, doctors could lose their licence or face lawsuits from patients for agreeing to treat minors’ gender dysphoria.

Texas lawmakers attempted to pass their own bill in 2021 that would label parents who allow their kids to transition as “child abusers,” while threatening to remove trans youth from supportive homes. When that legislation failed to become law, Gov. Greg Abbott issued a directive in February calling on state child welfare agents to investigate trans-affirming households.

LGBTQ2S+ advocates worry about the impact that these efforts are having on trans children and the people who love them. Erin Knott, the executive director of Equality Michigan, says that her group has been seeing an “uptick” in requests for help from trans youth who are experiencing harassment in the state, with many reporting thoughts of suicide. The Trevor Project reported over 6,200 calls from Michigan youth who reached out to them because they were in crisis over the last year, Knott says.

“Medical decisions belong to trans youth, their parents and their doctors,” Knott tells Xtra over Zoom. “Unfortunately, the Michigan House of Representatives is trying to come between youth and the care that they need.”

The organization is asking Michiganders to contact their representatives to ask them to vote “No” on HB 6454, which is ultimately unlikely to pass. Although Republicans control both houses of the Michigan Legislature—with 60 percent of seats in the House and 55 percent in the Senate—the state’s Democratic governor, Gretchen Whitmer, is extremely likely to veto the legislation if it reaches her desk.

With midterm elections coming up next month, Knott believes the bill is nothing but a political ploy intended to rile up the GOP’s base.

“This felt like a Hail Mary, a last-minute attempt to throw some anti-trans policy out there to continue a very dangerous dialogue that’s happening,” she says. “What’s unfortunate is, the people that suffer the most at the expense of this type of rhetoric are our trans and non-binary youth. It’s unacceptable.”

However, Knott asserts that the mere fact that a bill as radical as HB 6454 is being discussed could be extremely detrimental to already vulnerable youth, while also setting a bleak precedent as legislatures across the country head into a new year. “These bills may or may not be passed and signed into law; just the mere debate and the headlines are causing real harm,” she says.
So parents of trans youth will face a life sentence for addressing them by a gender-appropriate name and/or pronouns. I guess the tattoos and the camps will be for them as well as their children.
"The dildo of consequence rarely comes lubed." -- Eileen Rose

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: The tattoos and camps are coming

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Those opposed to surgical intervention to treat gender dysphoria often point to the occasional failure of the process as an argument against it. I don't know what the rate of 'regret' actually is but one study I looked at had a rate of about 1% (77 cases of regret out of 7929 patients who underwent gender assignment surgery). I don't know the cutoff point but 'several years' is mentioned in the text and a major reason for regret is '“poor support from the family.”

I had coronary artery bypass graft (CABG) surgery 11 years ago. The mortality rate within the hospital - i.e., soon after the operation - was, when I had mine done, around 2% and major complications arose within a year or two in something like 20% of cases. (It's better now and when I go to see my cardiologist he says 'see you next year!' so I'm good.). It would be pretty daft if a failure rate of 2% mortality and 20% 'complications' led to an abandonment of the procedure. Like all medical interventions, including surgery and drug treatments, the medical profession seeks constantly to improve outcomes. Heart transplants are routine now and almost commonplace because pioneers like Louis Washkansky volunteered early on when the anticipated outcome was not good.

We are still in the very early years of GAS. Let the doctors do what they (usually) do best - go about improving it so that the 1% becomes 0.8% then 0.6% then 0.4% then eventually vanish. Might take a few decades.
Last edited by ex-khobar Andy on Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: The tattoos and camps are coming

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

PS and let's not forget that a 1% 'regret' rate = 99% success rate. That's pretty fantastic.

Jarlaxle
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Re: The tattoos and camps are coming

Post by Jarlaxle »

Joe Guy wrote:
Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:29 am
I believe that the popular vote count in 2016 and 2020 was against Trump rather than for Clinton and Biden.
I suspect the opposite: many people (including me) voted for Trump because they loathed Hillary. If he runs in 2024...if he wins the nomination, I'll vote for him. I probably would not vote for him in the primary, I'd prefer someone else. (I'd be surprised to NOT see Ron DeSantis run.)
Treat Gaza like Carthage.

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