Calderon, demanded a crackdown on drugs

[quaddriver]

So if I read this right, the current preferred theory is: if it aint gonna get em all, make no attempt to get any of them.

[Crackpot]

you don't

[Grim Reaper]

So if I read this right, the current preferred theory is: if it aint gonna get em all, make no attempt to get any of them.

I have to seriously question your ability to grasp basic concepts in the English language if you got that conclusion out of our posts. Because your conclusion is in no rational way implied by anything we've said. The super border wall is an impractical waste of money, that doesn't mean that existing border security should be completely trashed.

But you know what's hilarious about this? If President Obama did enact this super border wall? You and the rest of the Republican Party would instantly start berating him for a. not doing it soon enough and b. wasting taxpayer dollars that could be better used giving the rich another tax cut.

[quaddriver]

In my best Sam L voice:

"well allow me to retort..."

"let's build a wall" just like the communists did.

Just another failed totalitarian pseudo-solution.

fair nuff.

Yes, let's spend millions on a wall that people can fly over, dig under, or swim around

hmmmm

Yes, let's spend [tens of billions] on a wall that people can fly over, dig under, [bribe their way through, cut a hole in it, blow it up] or swim around.

Build a wall. Make it 15' high, top it with 10' of razor wire humming with 50,000 volts and 100 amps. Surround it with no-man's land--a 100 yard wide strip denuded of all vegetation, sown liberally with anti-personnel land mines and covered with machine guns on motion detectors. After the no-man's land should be another barrier: a 15' high, 15' thick tangle of razor wire, also humming with 50,000 volts. After that should be another open area, patrolled by the Border Patrol, with ROE being: shoot on sight, shoot to kill. After that should be another tangle of electrified (normal electric-fence power) razor wire. Anyone crossing should be machine guinned and left to rot.

Employing, housing, sheltering, or otherwise aiding an illegal alien in any way except emergency medical care should be a felony punishable by 25 years in prison & a fine of at least $5,000,000 for the first offence.

Hint: solutions with instructions or even blueprints fare much better in the real world

And the drug cartels will just tunnel under it all like they've done in dozens of places already (the ones that have been found, that is) and what would it have gotten you? Do you imagine the drug trade operates on solitary runners wading across the Rio Grande?

And a wall will stop that how, exactly? Just gonna seal the entire border and not let anyone in or out?

There should be one or two checkpoints...all vehicles crossing should be searched top to bottom. Any contraband found, the driver spends 20 years in a cell pondering how he fucked up.

Sure, with 350,000,000 people and $400,000,000,000 in goods that cross the border every year that will be a piece of cake.

A fence on our southern border whilst ignoring the rest of the over 9000 miles of perimeter would be akin to placing a band aid over a gushing wound. And what about our port security?

Kill enough and the rest will eventually fall into line. If that means shooting a few hundred thousand illegal aliens trying to cross & having a couple hundred more blasted to carbonized dust by 50,000 volts...then it does, so be it.

The border MUST be sealed by any means necessary. I don't care what it takes, it MUST be done.

(this is why the US builds compatible railroads coast to coast - over a 100 years ago - and oh I dunno, places like australia has 5 different gauges making them seemingly abandon the entire concept of nationwide rail travel for....trucks)

Sealing the border with the exception of 2 checkpoints, as you have proposed, would require pushing through an average of 333 people per minute at each. How do you propose to do that in such a way as to ensure they are carrying no contraband? To say nothing of the fact that border towns will be turned into East Berlin.

This is precisely the problem with vacuous rhetoric like "the border must be sealed", it completely ignores all practicalities.

It makes a nice slogan for a needlepoint sampler, though.

The US gun nuts have blocked any effective means of stopping the flow of semi-automatic rifles and handguns along with millions of rounds of ammunition into Mexico each year.

The US gun nuts have blocked any effective means of stopping the flow of semi-automatic rifles and handguns along with millions of rounds of ammunition into Mexico each year.

So, it is readily apparent that not only did I read what was written, I clearly understood what was written and correctly contributed what was written to those that written it.

To the non-corporate types, pigeons are office speak for those who tear down solutions (often unsolicited) without offering solutions of their own. Most corporations avoid hiring or otherwise employing pigeons (although not a foolproof practice to be sure) and apparently that maxim IS holding for the pigeons involved.

that being said, the irony of those not in the US, offering advice on how the us should or should not guard its very open borders - most open on the planet. In fact, the only other borders that APPEAR to be as unsealed as those in africa. However, should any of the pigeons mentioned cross borders in africa, they will be shot on suspicion of being white rhodesian mercs, except for rube who would have the correct 'get out of execution free' skin color - he will just lose a forearm or two.

But by all means, lets continue the 'if it wont work 100% of the time then do nothing mindset'. It might build roads where you come from (oh wait - it doesnt), it might acheive heavier than air flight where you come from (oh wait it doesnt), it might produce new gadgets and conveniences (oh wait - it doesnt) Are we starting to get the point? (I doubt it, that would be a 100% reversal from recent and distant history - but one can hope...)


ps - the previously unheard of fault under Mineral VA is going to be named 'Obamas fault'. However, the pres insisted that it be named 'Bush's fault'

[Sue U]

ps - the previously unheard of fault under Mineral VA is going to be named 'Obamas fault'. However, the pres insisted that it be named 'Bush's fault'

OK, that's funny.

[quaddriver]

cant claim credit for it,I know I saw it somewhere in passing....

[Timster]

offering a strawman, new pigeon #4 wrote:A fence on our southern border whilst ignoring the rest of the over 9000 miles of perimeter would be akin to placing a band aid over a gushing wound. And what about our port security?

I take exception to being labeled a "pigeon" as this is not a strawman but a statement of fact pointing out that there is a much larger security issue to be addressed than merely our southern border.

And if you would have read my links you would have been informed as to what solutions have and are being implemented to address these security concerns. And by people much more knowledgeable than I.

I thank you in advance for not including me in any of your broad brush statements as someone that believes that we should do nothing about our National Security.

[Gob]

Let me see now; so people are saying; "If you show that my plan has holes in it so big you can drive a convoy of buses full of illegal immigrants through it side by side without scraping the the edges, then what you are actually saying is we should not have a plan at all."

Did I get that right?

[Grim Reaper]

So, it is readily apparent that not only did I read what was written, I clearly understood what was written and correctly contributed what was written to those that written it.

No. You have completely and utterly misunderstood what was written. You haven't even come close to having a small inkling of what was written in order to reach your conclusion. English teachers everywhere are crying over your utter lack of respect for the language that you have shown today.

The only thing you've shown today is the ability to quote people and string together words. Your ability to understand what was actually written is completely nonexistent.

[quaddriver]

So, it is readily apparent that not only did I read what was written, I clearly understood what was written and correctly contributed what was written to those that written it.

No. You have completely and utterly misunderstood what was written. You haven't even come close to having a small inkling of what was written in order to reach your conclusion. English teachers everywhere are crying over your utter lack of respect for the language that you have shown today.

The only thing you've shown today is the ability to quote people and string together words. Your ability to understand what was actually written is completely nonexistent.

I believe that you believe that, but alas, you have not proven your point, simply by refusing to read the OP and instead contributing to mindlessness.

Calderone was lamenting what?

Immigration of his people to here? no
Free trade across the border? no
Drug trade violence due to the demand to the north? yes.

Why does the US have a large demand for drugs?

because they are illegal? no
because they cure baldness? no
because "we" can? yes. The US, and no other place on earth has both the freedom, and the CASH to purchase the product. If drugs were legal (and presumably taxed) the demand would likely grow (witness: alcohol) and someone else would benefit more.

Calderone would like nothing more than to curb the demand. As if congress could, but still. (altho congress has been working damn hard the last coupla years to remove the 'free cash on hand' portion of the equation.

However, he did NOT ask for some sort of 'wall' (try reading the OP or any of the links) but some have - the majority of the US thinks that immigration let alone illegal immigration, PARTICULARY that from the south, oughta be curtailed to the point of zero. In response the admin has decided to not pursue illegals unless they are engaged in crime. The logical disconnect therein is another post for another day.

But nevertheless the border, should be sealed. There is no national, international, N ATO etc law that says the US must open its borders to any and all traffic. It is also true that a technology that might not be foolproof (a giant wall with wire and amps and mortars) is not the same as one that wont work at all, as has been suggested. And of course the wall need not be a wall, but that would be beyond your scope of understanding. And besides, would a wall (concrete or otherwise) stop any demand for drugs or guns? no. It would only impede the answer for the demand.

So, since you obviously dont wanna be a pigeon, what exactly IS your plan?

[Grim Reaper]

I believe that you believe that, but alas, you have not proven your point, simply by refusing to read the OP and instead contributing to mindlessness.

What point is there to prove? I've made my statement. You are the one throwing random garbage around and expecting to be taken seriously.

You're a pathetic excuse for a troll and a horrible excuse for a human being. Come back when you decide to engage in a discussion with what was actually written in this thread.

So, since you obviously dont wanna be a pigeon, what exactly IS your plan?

No plan I put forward would be approved by you since it would require actually addressing the root of the problem instead of spending huge amounts of resources putting down poor people.

[Gob]

.

Why does the US have a large demand for drugs?

because they are illegal? no
because they cure baldness? no
because "we" can? yes. The US, and no other place on earth has both the freedom, and the CASH to purchase the product. If drugs were legal (and presumably taxed) the demand would likely grow (witness: alcohol) and someone else would benefit more.

That's why the rest of the world is drug free, and faces none of the social ills that the USA suffers due to drugs...

BTW What colour is the sky on your planet?

[liberty]

The question here is to how to cut the Mexican drug gang’s supply money that they use to finance their war against the government of Mexico. I see only two logical ways to achieve this goal. One we could kill all the drug addict we could find; every drug user eliminated is one customer less and that much less money for the drug lords. Two we could build some type of barrier to impede the flow of drugs. I feel the wall would be a more practical and human way of achieving the goal.

And this stuff about it costing too much is crap and you all know it. Just look at all the interstate highways we have built.

Provides engineers with the authority and resources and then get out of their way and they will do it.

[Scooter]

Drug cartels have found ways to compensate for attempts to limit the supply of drugs, and became more profitable as a result. The introduction of injectables as substitutes for less potent forms, the tenfold increase of THC in marijuana, etc., were all responses to increased supply interdiction and all of them succeeded in putting more money into the hands of the drug lords.

Find enough mules willing to cross at a legal point of entry after swallowing 50 condoms stuffed with cocaine and a wall is useless. And there will always be enough customers willing to pay more to make up for the increased cost of doing business.

[liberty]

Drug cartels have found ways to compensate for attempts to limit the supply of drugs, and became more profitable as a result. The introduction of injectables as substitutes for less potent forms, the tenfold increase of THC in marijuana, etc., were all responses to increased supply interdiction and all of them succeeded in putting more money into the hands of the drug lords.

Find enough mules willing to cross at a legal point of entry after swallowing 50 condoms stuffed with cocaine and a wall is useless. And there will always be enough customers willing to pay more to make up for the increased cost of doing business.

There is always a solution to any problem if one wants to find it bad enough.

[Scooter]

Precisely the reason why the drug lords are still in business despite all of the obstacles put in their way. Thank you for making my point for me.

[quaddriver]

That's why the rest of the world is drug free, and faces none of the social ills that the USA suffers due to drugs...

It is? I doubt that, but if you think there is a more lucrative market than the US, Id like to see that data

(you might argue that the vast ocean mileages insulate say, Oz, from central american production capabilities, but geee, that would sorta be a wall in place...)

[Gob]

Quiz time, who said;

The US, and no other place on earth has both the freedom, and the CASH to purchase the product. (drugs)

and at the time were they;
a) Drunk
b) Being an arsehole for the sake of it.
c) Stupid.
d) All of the above.

[rubato]

Proof of incurable mental defect.

Arguing with Quad.

yrs,
rubato

[quaddriver]

Quiz time, who said;

The US, and no other place on earth has both the freedom, and the CASH to purchase the product. (drugs)

and at the time were they;
a) Drunk
b) Being an arsehole for the sake of it.
c) Stupid.
d) All of the above.

you forgot e) honest.

are we now going to have 10 pages of you thrashing saying you did not say what you did? I made it quite clear, as did the leader of mexico that the US has the LARGEST appetite for drugs. Period, end of data, end of discussion. we have the largest appetite in gross tonnage, we have the largest appetite per capita. I invited you to show *any* country that had a larger market. (but if you search semi hard you will find that only canada has a slightly higher percentage of adult males that tried pot. but then again, they live in canada)

I noticed you declined to do so. why is that? oh, thats right, I was right once again.

and as for why we have the largest appetite, I clearly stated, because we can. we dont make any effort to close borders. (didja know that wiki claims Oz leads the world in that respect. of course you wrote the wiki entry but still). we dont make any meaningful effort to interdict shipments. we dont make any effort at all to target users - in fact, many of the users we all know from here and elsewhere BRAG about their drug use and not a single one has ever even been contacted. and we have all the money. yes, cant forget that.

You would likely reply that (as a large percentage) americans forsake all else for drugs, food jobs etc. but everyone knows that cannot be true as that behaviour is not sustainable. the us appetite for drugs is more than sustainable. its a multi-multi billion a year industry. microsoft would like to have 1/10 of the business. the world drug trade is estimated to be about $360B per year.

The single largest marketplace for illegal drugs continues to be the United States. Although the market has decreased dramatically since its heyday in the mid-80's, close to thirteen million Americans still think nothing about occasionally buying a gram of cocaine, a few hits of ecstasy or a quarter ounce of weed to party with their friends on the weekends. A hard core group (see the chart) estimated at between 5 and 6 million have more serious drug habits, and may spend $100-$500 dollars a week on purchasing their drugs. These two groups - hard core users and casual users - spend approximately $60 billion dollars a year, according to U.S. government estimates.

Read more: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... z1WZBmVQ9E

so we have what 1/23rd of the population but 1/6th of the consumption? my point proven.

and OF COURSE this leads us to drug related violence, which actually WAS part of the OP and as we have shown in another thread was perhaps the main driving force of anything that affects our life expectancies. You recall that, the OTHER thread where you wanted to use the 'Gob book of facts' instead of just plain facts. real ones.

so, are you telling me that once again, you are going to go off book, refuse to address the topic at hand, spout gibberish about 'facts' you insist are in existence, or not show any facts at all? and what makes this almost humorous - should I find myself in a giddy mood, is that the Us consumption of illegal drugs *IS* actually something you can post about during your 'the us sucks and this is why' binges...

baffling.