Unions and Government

[Scooter]

Not just home schools. Teachers aren't legally required to be credentialled to teach in private schools, and a lot of private schools don't require it.. They will if they want to be accredited, but there are a lot of schools out there that aren't.

[Lord Jim]

I see it's time to update my list of Breathtakingly Ignorant Opinions Rubato Has Expressed.....

[Sean]

Not just home schools. Teachers aren't legally required to be credentialled to teach in private schools, and a lot of private schools don't require it.. They will if they want to be accredited, but there are a lot of schools out there that aren't.

Really? That IS insane.

Why would anybody want to send their kids to such a school?

[Gob]

Why would anybody want to send their kids to such a school?

I blame the fathers...

When topless photographs of Harrow School teacher Joanne Salley were passed around by her pupils, she was understandably mortified and pledged to focus on her career.

But now it seems Miss Salley has overcome her embarrassment.

Not only is the Cambridge graduate back teaching art at the £30,930-a-year school, she is also fronting a new lingerie campaign for a department store.





Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1fFncF7w4

[loCAtek]

Why would anybody want to send their kids to such a school?

I blame the fathers...

Who place porn over education? 'Cha.

[BoSoxGal]

Actually, some very fine private schools have very fine faculty with advanced degrees in their fields of study who simply refuse to engage in the mindless curriculum required by the average College of Education in order to meet the requirements of the public school teacher credentialing process.

And they are still generally accredited, but by different standards than public schools.

Falling into this category would be schools like Phillips Exeter, Choate, Deerfield Academy - some of the finest prep schools in the country.

[Sean]

So they are qualified in their subject area but have no formal teaching qualifications BSG?

I'm curious to know what the different standards of accreditation are though...

[rubato]

Those in private schools make even less because private schools don't require a teaching credential and have no minimum standards for education.


yrs,
rubato

That cannot possibly be true.

Unless of course you are referring to home schools as private schools...

It is most definitely true. As several people above have confirmed. I'm astonished that everyone does not know it.

________________________________
http://www.alleducationschools.com/educ ... tification

"...
Teacher Certification in Private and Charter Schools

Charter schools are independent public schools, each governed by a public board of trustees that has the authority to hire teachers according to their own established standards. In some states, charter schools can hire teachers regardless of state certification requirements. In other states, charter schools are like other public schools and are held to the same state requirements to hire only certified teachers. Contact your state Department of Education to find out a particular charter school's teacher certification requirements.

On the other hand, private schools are not regulated by state government and can set their own standards. While some private schools require teachers to be certified, many do not. Contact individual schools to learn whether they require teacher certification. For more information about teaching in a private school, see our interview with a private school teacher.
... "
______________________________________


Many religious schools exist in order to reproduce the level of ignorance and bigotry of the current generation. Where do you think we get all the people who doubt climate change, don't believe in evolution, believe in homeopathy and faith healing, think forcing more women to be single mothers is good for society, and think that microwaves cause cancer?



yrs,
rubato

[Guinevere]

Rubato is correct --- independent schools, including catholic schools, are not required to use certified teachers.

Look at this link from the Boston College career center -- a top university and a Jesuit university at that (so there shouldn't be any claims of religious bias):
Teaching Without Certification

As per that webpage:

Become a Classroom Teacher in a Public School
Thinking about teaching as a possible career? That's great! If you enjoy working with young people and have the right temperament for teaching, you will succeed.

Here are a few tips on getting started if you don't already have certification to teach in the public schools.

1.Get some classroom experience.
Let's be frank - though we hear much about a teacher shortage nationally, in Boston the shortages are in a few limited specialties such as math, the sciences, foreign language and special ed. It's not necessarily an easy place to find a teaching job.
◦To gain classroom experience, you may want to think about doing programs such as the MATCH Corps or Citizen Schools. Though you would not be employed as a classroom teacher, per se, you would gain paid experience working with young people in public schools in a tutoring and mentoring role. That could be invaluable for you as you pursue your teaching career.
◦For other programs that provide you with paid experience in the classroom, see
■Working in a Public School In a Role Other Than Teacher section of this page (below).
■Americorps program, which provides funding to individual programs in all fifty states. While in some states, these program may not offer positions as an actual classroom teacher, most states they do have jobs that involve working directly with young people.(Start at the "For Individuals" link. It can take a while to look through all the different sections of the site that are applicable, so have patience.)
■Teaching fellowships - many of these are in private schools but are designed to provide new teachers with extra support and mentoring.
◦Also consider:
■Teaching in independent schools
■Teaching as a volunteer (opportunities in the U.S. and abroad, usually providing housing with other volunteers, all meals, and a living stipend).
■Alternative teaching settings.
■Teaching in Catholic schools.

Under "Teaching in independent schools" the opening statement says (emphasis mine):

Teaching in an independent school offers several advantages -
•You have a great deal of autonomy in designing and teaching curriculum.
•You are part of a community that values subject expertise, teaching, and learning.
•Classes are small.
•The students you teach are committed to learning and are generally quite able academically.

A FEW KEY ISSUES:

1.No certification required at the secondary level - you can teach in most independent schools without state certification or enrollment in a teacher training program. NOTE that most independent elementary schools do require coursework in teaching methods, and some require state certification.

Under "Teaching in catholic schools" it states (emphasis mine):

Not everyone who teaches in a Catholic school considers themselves a Catholic or even a practicing Christian. However, it is important that you be living a faith-based life. In addition, the Catholic schools offer a more challenging academic experience to students than do some of the public schools, and consequently, you should be well-prepared to teach your particular academic discipline.

Some Catholic schools prefer their teachers to have state teacher certification or to be working toward that certification.

What are the benefits of working in a Catholic School?

1.You have the opportunity to teach and to model a religious- and values-centered approach to life. More simply put, you have the opportunity to talk to your students about God.
2.Classes are frequently smaller than in the public schools, and there are fewer discipline problems.
3.Parental cooperation and involvement is high.

[dgs49]

An issue that comes up from time to time with respect to math and science teaching in public schools is that there are PLENTY of would-be teachers with math and science degrees - credentials far superior to the typical HS chemistry or math teacher - but who lack the "credentials" to teach in public schools. And with the high barriers to entry, they would have to basically forego a year of income in order to get the required coursework and student teaching, with no guarantee of getting a teaching job in a public school (at the entry-level compensation, don't you know). Consider that Albert Einstein would not have been "qualified" to teach calculus in a public high school in the U.S.

This is particularly true when we have thousands of engineers either laid off or working in less-than-ideal circumstances, and many teaching payscales are more than attractive to them.

While teaching is no picnic, I think the school districts (or any private school) would do well to consider such "non credentialled" applicants for math and science positions, but it's next-to-impossible with the strong influence of the teachers' unions.

[Guinevere]

Some actual numbers from actual union contracts about rates of pay ---- this is for a very financially secure community in the Boston burbs:

Clerical pay rates for 2011: $17.50-$24.00 per hour, 1% of base pay for longevity, after 15 years service, $500 annually for an AA, $1000 annually for a BS.

Laborers for 2011: $17.50-$26.90 per hour, under $500 longevity for 10-30+ years service, no degree incentive.

And those super overpaid custodians for 2011: $15.60-$23.15, longevity ranges from $200-$800 annually, for 10-25 years service, no degree incentive.

All of these employees get about 2 weeks of paid vacation per year (more if they have been around longer), and a handful of paid sick days. Health care is an 80/20 split.

In contrast, firefighters (non-captains or lieutenants) start at around $23/hour and depending on education and certifications (paramedic or EMT), and seniority, can make up to $126 per hour. Same 80/20 health care split.

I don't have the police contract numbers in front of my on an hourly basis, but by the time you add in all of the various additions to pay (education, longevity, technology, and more) they are making within the range of the firefighter, and probably a bit more at the bottom end. They also have significant overtime opportunities and make, on average, about $50/hour in OT work. Supervisors (sergeants and lieutenants) make even more.

[Guinevere]

An issue that comes up from time to time with respect to math and science teaching in public schools is that there are PLENTY of would-be teachers with math and science degrees - credentials far superior to the typical HS chemistry or math teacher - but who lack the "credentials" to teach in public schools. And with the high barriers to entry, they would have to basically forego a year of income in order to get the required coursework and student teaching, with no guarantee of getting a teaching job in a public school (at the entry-level compensation, don't you know). Consider that Albert Einstein would not have been "qualified" to teach calculus in a public high school in the U.S.

This is particularly true when we have thousands of engineers either laid off or working in less-than-ideal circumstances, and many teaching payscales are more than attractive to them.

While teaching is no picnic, I think the school districts (or any private school) would do well to consider such "non credentialled" applicants for math and science positions, but it's next-to-impossible with the strong influence of the teachers' unions.

The link I provided above lists many programs which help those with math and science backgrounds, or other professional degrees, move into teaching without having to cease work to get a masters degree. I know Chicago has a very successful program and several attorneys I know have transitioned from the law practice to teaching, while getting teaching experience and taking classes.

[BoSoxGal]

State teacher credentialling requirements are often absurd, and my attitude about this is one area in which I fall into the conservative camp, I suppose.

This opinion was formed in part based on the ridiculous courses I took in the College of Education when I considered pursuing such credentialling whilst in my undergraduate course of study (at that time, in Zoology). The caliber of many of my classmates fell far short of those I had in actual disciplines, whether the soft/hard sciences, or liberal arts courses.

Beyond that, I've heard too many ridiculous stories about the barriers in place to keep really talented people out of teaching, because they've not jumped through these College of Ed hoops.

My former colleague here in the prosecutor's office (former, because she's just moved on to go into education reform policy work) applied to get provisional teacher certification here in Montana for secondary teaching. Despite the fact that she holds a BA in Political Science and a JD from a first rate law school, the powers that be determined that she couldn't establish that she had at least 36 hours of study in one field, as per their requirements.

Now, I'd be happy to hear from anybody who wants to explain that? BA Political Science + law degree is not equal to sufficient background to qualify an individual to teach, say, Civics? American Government?

The College of Ed folks want everyone who teaches in public schools to have a bunch of courses about education theory, curriculum development, mainstreaming, blah blah blah.

Some basic tools for teaching more efficiently can be taught, but in general, teaching is a GIFT - one either has it, or one doesn't. Too many public school credentialled teachers DON'T.

[Gob]

Just some figures for comparison;


Salary for High School Teacher Jobs
Updated: 20 Nov 2011
Salary AU$39,494 - AU$78,967

Teachers pay scale UK
£21,588 - £36,387

[Sue U]

Just some figures for comparison;


Salary for High School Teacher Jobs
Updated: 20 Nov 2011
Salary AU$39,494 - AU$78,967

Teachers pay scale UK
£21,588 - £36,387

Yeah, but what's that in real money?

[Gob]

Just some figures for comparison;


Salary for High School Teacher Jobs
Updated: 20 Nov 2011
Salary AU$39,494 - AU$78,967

Teachers pay scale UK
£21,588 - £36,387

Yeah, but what's that in real money?

39,494.00 AUD = 40,417.75 USD
78,967.00 AUD = 80,836.77 USD

21,588.00 GBP = 33,883.18 USD
36,387.00 GBP = 57,108.75 USD

Or check this;

http://www.worldsalaries.org/teacher.shtml

[Sue U]

Why are British teachers so underpaid?

[Gob]

In terms of national wage rates they are reasonably paid. Check that chart I linked to.

[quaddriver]

Again, check your states (or countrys) regulations.

In PA, where I live, charter schools (the vast vast majority of non-traditional schools) are regulated by the Dept of Ed. In fact, they are often chartered within an intermediate unit (how we segregate groups of disctricts in PA).

the law requires 75% of the teaching staff to hold cert and all of the administrative staff to hold or be in an accredited program to hold admin cert.

For licensed private schools (inlcuding jesus schools) the same holds.

For the rare private schools that are only registered, it is optional but consider this:

1) all children of compulsory age must recieve an education curriculum approved by the state. that is unlikely to happen without certified teachers as it must be approved by the local school board of the traditional school in the area where the child lives. In order to not be rejected 100% of the time, all private schools have certified staff on board.*

2) all special needs (IEP eligible) students must be served by certified Sp. Ed teachers and ONLY Sp ed teachers.

Furthermore, the teachers who do not hold an education certificate are not illiterate buffoons as assumed by the posts noted here. Most are degreed professionals who desire to teach outside of strict constraints and most often possess advanced degrees in the subject matter. Private schools (Mercersburg Academy comes to mind) have faculty who are well beyond PhD and earn it salary wise. In many cases, not one faculty member has a BS degree, but rather multiple post graduate degrees. you do get what you pay for. Private schools at the secondary level are traditionally more expensive than colleges.

In 2004 when I formed my consulting company I considered adding continuing and adult education courses thru IU 11 where I lived and took the practice praxis exams for both HS level mathematics and science (which would include algebra, trig, calc, physics etc) and nearly got perfect scores on both. I could long term substitute in any PA school simply because I am a degreed professional. Pass the Praxis and I could be hired on as tenured staff at any school.

the difference being, many people who do not go to college for 'teaching' are not willing to make up the courses that are specific to 'teaching', (which mostly deal with presentation modes, class room issues, and advanced topics in psych for special needs,) but would not mind teaching.

As such, without the elementary education cert, they wont be in K-6 but could and would be in 7-12 as subs, long term subs, or employees with passed praxis exams.


* = In pa, even home schooled students must follow a curriculum approved by the DoE and signed off by the local board or IU. Since the competition is fierce for the headcount dollar, the schools do not make it easy to get approved for home schooling. Home schooling is not the chosen avenue of the lazy and stupid as portrayed here. But often for good reason: weak local districts (Pa reports each district by county, IU and statewide as a ranking), gang issues, work life issues. Since home schoolers must take and pass the PSSA in 5th, 8th and 11th deficiencies are caught.

[Liberty1]

An engineer (electrical) I've worked with for the past 15 years, just this fall "retired" from engineering and went to teach high school science and math. This was probably a 60% pay cut for him, but he is a brilliant guy and will be a great teacher.

He's not acreddited, but his real world experience, knowledge and intelligence I believe far outweighs any peice of paper.

My wife was a teacher for quite a few years, originally getting a degree in education. Her complaint about college courses in education was they don't teach you how to teach, they mainly teach you how to test. As an engineer, testing is something we do everyday, it's just a slightly different scenario.