Manning sentenced to 35 years

[Econoline]

If he's a she, and prefers men sexually to women, Leavenworth might not be such a bad experience for, uh, her...

[Grim Reaper]

My point being that shouldn't tougher psych evaluations take place before anyone joins the armed forces? Whilst Manning leaked documents, others have turned on their squad mates, and many more have taken their own lives.

Basic Training and Advanced Individual Training are pretty much the extent of the Army's psychological evaluation for Soldiers. Anyone who can make it through all that is generally considered fit for duty.

And there's more training for units that go overseas to the Middle East, which should have further weeded out people not fit for duty in a more hostile environment. I'm willing to bet that this was a case of apathetic leadership not wanting to deal with the paperwork involved in getting rid of Manning until she did something seriously wrong.

[Daisy]

I think you're right Grimmy. Shame on them for failing her.

Jim it doesn't matter what her gender is, my point was about her FAS not about her gender dysphoria.

[Lord Jim]

Shame on them for failing her.

I'd like to think that's sarcasm, but I fear it isn't...

I'm sorry Daze, but I'm going to go with, "Shame on Manning for being a traitor"....

And (I tell you what, since there's some question about "he" or "she" I think I'll use the non-gender specific "scumbag") scumbag may have been in a "hostile environment" but scumbag was nowhere near combat.

As I said a long time ago the one thing that the military should have done is pull The Traitor Manning out of working with classified material after scumbag got in that altercation that was severe enough to have scumbag reduced in rank. (Nobody who's had a reduction in rank should have access to classified material as a matter of policy, since there's reason to think they could be carrying a grudge.)

As for this "FAS" thing...

Assuming scumbag even has it, does FAS force people to betray their country? Somehow I doubt it.

Let me be as clear about this as I possibly can. Scumbag is a traitor. A t-r-a-i-t-o-r traitor....

I put traitors in the same moral ballpark as I do murderers and child molesters, and I have just as much sympathy for them....

Which is to say precisely zero.

In my opinion The Traitor Manning is damn lucky not to have faced a firing squad, which from a purely moral standpoint is what scumbag deserved.

[Lord Jim]

I'll say one thing...

The Traitor Manning makes one creepy lookin' broad:

[Big RR]

Betrayed his country to who (is it it whom) jim? Certainly not to an enemy he was not guilty of aiding. Yes, he released confidential/secret information which I think was breaking certain promises he made when he got the access, but betraying his country? I just don't see it, nor did the court martial board as I understand their verdict.

[Lord Jim]

Big RR, did you read my post with the article with the judge's findings on the espionage guilty verdicts?

[Joe Guy]

Manning is a traitor. Now it seems that he is a female traitor in a man's body. That is obviously the fault of someone else and therefore he/she can't be responsible for endangering our troops and national security.

(S)he was just a little confused about his/her identity and did something silly because (s)he was stressed. Give him/her a break. Everybody makes a mistake once in a while...

[Econoline]

He wants to be a girl?

He’s going to federal prison. Wish granted.

(Credit Jim Wright/Stonekettle Station)

[liberty]

I personally feel sorry for Manning, but I also agree with Grim; perhaps he should have never been in the military, but once he was his life was changed at least until such time when he would be discharged. The military is essential for the security and safety of the nation and there is no military without members. The military man must have honor, integrity and be dedicated to his duty. No military member can be required to obey an order that is illegal or immoral and there are ways to deal with such things without going public. But a military man can not decide that he will be a force unto himself. We have to obey orders, it will not work any other way.

[Big RR]

Big RR, did you read my post with the article with the judge's findings on the espionage guilty verdicts?

Jim--I saw what you posted, but I'd like to see all her findings rather than the mined quotes the article publishes (I'll see if I can find it). Statements like "reason to believe the information could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation." seem pretty ambiguous to me, as I don't know what "to the advantage" of a foreign nation means, and whether that use would be injurious to the US, or what injury to the US she was stating the information could have caused (would mere embarrassment of the administration be such an injury?). Every whistleblower, whether in private industry, releases embarrassing information that can injure the reputation of his/her employer, but such dies not make them a traitor; a releaser of confidential information, of course, but not necessarily a traitor.

[Andrew D]

It does appear that the judge decided that although the prosecution had proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Manning “had reason to believe” that the information which he leaked would get to al-Qaeda, the prosecution had not proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he “knew” that the information which he leaked would get to al-Qaeda. And that conclusion is entirely in accord with a crucial fact which we already know:

WikiLeaks offered to consult with the Department of Defense about what information it would leak, and the DoD rejected WikiLeaks's offer.

From the fact that WikiLeaks was willing to withhold at least some, and perhaps all, of the information, it necessarily follows that Manning did not know that the information would be published on the internet. It was not possible for Manning to have known that the information would be published on the internet, because, had the DoD not rejected out of hand WikiLeaks's offer to withhold that information, WikiLeaks might not have published that information at all.

It was possible -- and not merely abstractly possible, but entirely concretely possible -- that WikiLeaks would not publish the information which Manning leaked to WikiLeaks. Therefore, it was impossible for Manning to "know" that WikiLeaks would publish that information on the internet.

In acquitting Manning on the charge of having "actual knowledge ... that he was actually giving intelligence to the enemy," the judge made the correct decision.

[Rick]

Andrew just curious have you actually passed the Bar Exam?

[Andrew D]

As should be obvious, yes. And I've been practicing law for decades.

Have you ever passed any bar exam?

[Rick]

Thanks although I don't know that it was all that obvious.

As for me, no...

[oldr_n_wsr]

Have you ever passed any bar exam?

Yes I did. I earned my seat in in the church basements
sorry, a little alcoholic humor......very little

[Lord Jim]

But oldr, wasn't the problem that you never passed any bar?

[oldr_n_wsr]

[Big RR]

My grandfather was a magician; ever time he walked down the street he'd turn into a bar.

[oldr_n_wsr]

My grandfather was a magician; ever time he walked down the street he'd turn into a bar.

That was your grandfather who taught me that trick?