Independence day

[rubato]

No, I'm certain it has some value, because multinational corporations will spend a lot of time and money in deciding where to incorporate or to form subsidiaries (lloking at factors such as location, securities laws, taxes, etc.), but it is not the only factor is assessing the value. However, it is the deciding factor as to what exchange(s) it can be registered or traded on, which is what I though Jim was commenting on.

Yes, and dumbo is undermining his own original argument...

Under his original theory, British companies that do business internationally, (especially those that do substantial business with EU countries, which is true of most major UK companies, certainly the ones on the FTSE 100) should be the ones most negatively impacted by Brexit, and would be least likely to bounce back...

(If the theory that Brexit will damage the British trade position were correct, which I of course do not accept.)

Now he's arguing that because they do business internationally they are less likely to suffer damage to their value, and that's why they've bounced back...

He must be taking philosophical coherence lessons from Donald Trump...

Back to you rube:

What a lying asshole moron you are. I said that international companies do most of their business outside the UK so that Brexit would not impact them as negatively therefore their return to previous levels of valuation was not surprising nor is it proof that markets think Brexit is a good thing. BP and GSK were given as examples. Brexit will not hurt those companies, who can move offices and manufacturing anywhere they like, it will hurt the UK economy overall. But international companies will certainly take into account that investment in the UK is less desireable.

You are like a small child.

yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

nor is it proof that markets think Brexit is a good thing.

No, it's proof that they view Brexit as a zero sum; that it will make no strategic economic difference one way or the other...

Rube, there really isn't much point in you and I continuing this exchange; for a couple of reasons...

The first, is the vast disparity in our knowledge and understanding of how international markets work...

The second, (which is a more general problem that anyone who attempts to engage you in debate encounters) is that while it's extremely challenging to engage someone in debate who doesn't properly recall or understand what you have said, it's nigh on impossible to have meaningful discourse with a person who cannot properly recall or understand what they themselves have said...

That's pretty much a non-starter...

[Lord Jim]

Michael Gove plays Francis Urquhart to Boris Johnson's Patrick Woolton and sticks the shiv in:

Conservative MPs in uproar as Boris Johnson 'rips party apart' by withdrawing from leadership contest after ambush by Michael Gove

The battle for the Conservative leadership was dramatically transformed today after Boris Johnson ruled himself out of the race.

It followed the shock declaration from Michael Gove that he would throw his hat in the ring because he didn't believe his close friend was up to the job.

He said: "I have come, reluctantly, to the conclusion that Boris cannot provide the leadership or build the team for the task ahead. I have, therefore, decided to put my name forward for the leadership."

Conservative MPs who turned up for what they thought would be Boris Johnson’s decision to stand for the Tory leadership at the St Ermine hotel near Scotland Yard are absolutely furious.

The MPs who spoke to the Telegraph said they had no idea the Mr Johnson had planned to withdraw from the Tory leadership.

One MP who attended Mr Johnson’s launch said: “Any politician who trusts Michael Gove needs their head examined.

The chaos sent shock waves through the campaign as Home Secretary Theresa May announced her bid to succeed David Cameron this morning.

At midday Graham Brady, chairman of the 1922 Committee, announced that Theresa May, Michael Gove, Stephen Crabb, Liam Fox and Andrea Leadsom will fight it out to succeed David Cameron.

Mr Brady announced that the first set of voting will take place on Tuesday as the party's MPs winnow down the field of five candidates to two.

With the least successful contender eliminated at each round, further ballots will be held on Thursday, then successive Tuesdays and Thursdays until two front-runners emerge to be put forward to the party membership in the country for a final decision.

Mr Brady said the committee wants a winner to be chosen by September 9.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... -gove-ent/

[oldr_n_wsr]

Meanwhile, haven't the stocks recovered?

[Scooter]

The pound sure hasn't - it is sitting down around the same bottom it reached after the results were announced. The Euro, the Canadian dollar and other currencies have recovered a lot of the ground they lost in the wake of the vote, but not the pound.

[Scooter]

Friday 1 July 2016 by Davywavy
House of Commons cafeteria runs out of knives

The House of Commons cafeteria has asked MPs if they’d mind returning the knives they currently have sticking out of their backs, as they’ve run out.

Saying there’s been ‘a bit of a rush’, catering workers are currently scouring the Houses of Parliament looking for MPs bodies from which they can retrieve their cutlery.

The cooling remains of dozens of Members of Parliament are currently draped over furniture, lying spreadeagled in corridors and slumped in neglected corners of the building, and hundreds of knives need to be retrieved before dinner time.

The carnage started yesterday when Michael Gove used a roughly-sharpened prison shiv to do over Boris Johnson, leading to a cascade of defenestrations and stabbings as the floodgates of years of pent up frustrations spilled out into open warfare.

Michael Gove himself is understood to be currently desperately fending off a steak-knife-wielding Theresa May with a sandwich platter in the Pugin bar.

Meanwhile, heating engineers at the House have asked if Jeremy Corbyn would mind returning the boiler plate he’s currently got stuffed down the back of his jacket as it’s playing gyp with the thermostat.

“It’s all very well them bumping each other off and warding off attacks with tea-trays and whatnot, but some of us have jobs to do,” said House Facilities Manager Simon Williams.

“There’s a trade delegation over from India, and MPs have been sticking each other with the cutlery we’re supposed to be giving them a nice reception with – ironically in order to get into the reception.

“And if anyone has seen the heavy glass paperweight that was in my office I’d like it back, as it was a present from my wife. I’m told John McDonnell has it, and he was last seen headed to Angela Eagle’s office.”

[rubato]

The EU to Little England:

"Do not stand upon the order of your going, just get the fuck out."


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... s-hollande

Brexit cannot be cancelled or delayed, says François Hollande

French president says UK must face consequences of its vote and a quick exit from EU would avert economic instability

François Hollande: Brexit cannot be ‘cancelled or delayed’

Patrick Wintour in Brussels and Arthur Neslen in Bratislava

Friday 1 July 2016 11.13 EDT
Last modified on Saturday 2 July 2016 09.54 EDT


The French president, François Hollande, has stepped up the pressure on the UK over its timetable to leave the EU, insisting that Brexit cannot be cancelled or delayed, and that Britain will have to live with the consequences.

His hardline comments came after a meeting with David Cameron in northern France at the Battle of the Somme centenary commemorations. “The decision has been taken; it cannot be delayed and it cannot be cancelled. Now [the British] have to face the consequences,” Hollande told reporters.

“Being in the European Union has advantages. And that’s … what the British are starting to understand,” added the president, alluding to voters who opted to leave but had since expressed regrets. “Those who were tempted by the Brexit are starting to think it over.”

Hollande said a speedy Brexit “would avert all the uncertainties and instability, especially in the economic and financial domains. The faster it goes, the better it will be for them.”

His timetable is in stark contrast to those of Michael Gove and Theresa May, the leading candidates to replace Cameron as Conservative party leader and prime minister, who have said they would not trigger the article 50 process until the end of the year.


But it was echoed in Bratislava by Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the European commission, which wants the process to be triggered as soon as a new Conservative leader is elected in September, though it cannot force the UK to do so.

“There will be no negotiations whatsoever before notification and we are inviting the British authorities to make their intentions clear,” Juncker said. “We do not have time to lose; we cannot add uncertainty to uncertainty.”

He reiterated that Britain would have to accept freedom of movement if it wanted to stay in the single market. “I can’t give in on that point,” he said.

Meanwhile, the feckless right in England want to dither.


yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

This is precisely the sort of arrogance that has gotten the EU into the fix it's in...

Hollande would do well to focus on scaling back the powers of the EU in order to prevent other countries from leaving, (like his own country, where the most recent poll showed 53% in favor of holding a "Frexit" referendum) rather than trying to dictate to another country how it has to proceed.

Apparently Mr. Hollande has learned absolutely nothing...

[Gob]

Apparently Mr. Hollande has learned absolutely nothing...

And now he's got a willing pupil, keen to learn how to get things wrong too!

[Gob]

Brexit is starting to deliver.

British politics was constipated and has now overdosed on laxative. It is experiencing a great evacuation. It has got rid of a prime minister and is about to get rid of a leader of the opposition. It will soon be rid of a chancellor of the exchequer and a lord chancellor. It is also rid of two, if not four, Tory heirs apparent. Across the spectrum the left is on the brink of upheaval and perhaps historic realignment, if only the Liberal Democrats have the guts to engineer it. The Greens and Ukip have both lost their leaders. An entire political class is on the way out. As Oscar Wilde said of the death of Little Nell, it would take a heart of stone not to laugh.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... rty-bubble

[oldr_n_wsr]

A good house cleaning every so often, is a good thing.

It just goes to show that the rulers have no clue and how out of touch they are. The people voted to exit and the people in charge don't know how to handle what the people want. as if they ever did
I know it was a close vote and there are a few who came out to say if they got to vote again they would vote not to exit. But if there was a very large amount of those people, there would be more news about it. I have only heard of a few who have said that.

The people are tired of not being heard and when given the chance, they are starting to take it.
In both countries. Here we see the rise of Trump and Bernie, in the UK you get Brexit.
The people are tired of the "status quo" and see these people (Trump and Bernie) and this idea (Brexit) as a way to change the status quo. They may not be 100% for these things, but they are more "against" what is going on than they are of "for" the "new" thing.

[Lord Jim]

The next Prime Minister will be a woman:

Conservative leadership election: Theresa May and Andrea Leadsom begin the battle to replace David Cameron as leader



Theresa May and Andrea Leadsom, the two female Conservative MPs who will battle it out to become the next Prime Minister will embark on gruelling tours of the country in a bid to win votes starting next week.

– the two remaining candidates after three others were eliminated in two rounds of voting by MPs – have nine weeks to win a majority of support among the 150,000-strong party membership, who will have the final vote.

The winner is to be announced on Friday 9 September, and is expected to then replace David Cameron as prime minister almost immediately.

The news came as it emerged that the Tory party’s membership has swelled in size since David Cameron quit, with 10,000 new members joining in the four days after his resignation.

Despite a healthy lead among MPs, it may not be an easy win for the Home Secretary after Leave.EU, one of the pro-Brexit campaigns which is backing Mrs Leadsom, published a survey of 5,000 Tory members which found that 56 per cent supported the energy minister against 44 per cent for Mrs May.

Some expect the vote will be much closer than Mrs May would like, although she is still broadly seen as the favourite in the race.

Mrs May and Mrs Leadsom made the final two after Michael Gove was eliminated yesterday in a vote of Conservative MPs.

Mrs May won the support of 199 MPs, against 84 MPs for Mrs Leadsom. One Conservative MP – thought to be Mr Cameron – did not cast a vote.

Mr Gove had just 46 backers meaning he has lost two supporters since the previous vote on Tuesday this week, despite the field shrinking from five to three candidates.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07 ... ace-david/

I was delighted to see The Traitor Gove get his just desserts...

Hard to imagine him having a Cabinet post of any kind in the next government no matter who wins...

I mentioned here on the night of the referendum that I was very impressed with Mrs. Leadsom. When this process began, she was considered a long shot contender, and not expected to make it to the final round...

I think it would be a huge mistake to under-estimate her...It's a safe bet that not many of those 10,000 new Tory Party members that have joined since Cameron announced he would quit are Remain supporters, and rank-and-file Conservative Party members have rejected the leading Conservative MP pick the last two times...

May has the clear advantage in experience, (she's been Home Secretary since 2010). I don't know much else about her, beyond the fact that she was a Remain supporter. It seems to me that while of course you will want to have Remain supporters in the next government in order to help re-unify the party, it's highly questionable whether a Remain supporter should be leading the government, in light of the vote.

On the other hand from what I understand, even though she was a Remain supporter, she had the sense to not completely tank her credibility by becoming a scenery chewing, histrionic, "the sky will fall" type Remain supporter (unlike the out-going Prime Minister...)

My understanding is that she kept a low profile and didn't take any kind of a leading role in the campaign so there shouldn't be a lot of quotes of her saying hysterical things about Brexit that could be used against her in the leadership race...

[Gob]

I was delighted to see The Traitor Gove get his just desserts...

Hard to imagine him having a Cabinet post of any kind in the next government no matter who wins...

I mentioned here on the night of the referendum that I was very impressed with Mrs. Leadsom.

Gove should be horsewhipped.

Leadsome is anti-gay marriage and pro fox hunting, I wish a plague of boils on her.

[Lord Jim]

Well, I don't imagine that Leadsom's personal views on gay marriage matter much as a matter of policy, (that bell isn't going to be unrung)...

And as for her views on fox hunting...

On my list of the top 1000 issues for evaluating the suitability of the next Prime Minister...

I don't think that one would make the list...

If those are the two biggest things that can be thrown at her, she's in better shape then I thought...

[Gob]

[Guinevere]

Well, I don't imagine that Leadsom's personal views on gay marriage matter much as a matter of policy, (that bell isn't going to be unrung)...

And as for her views on fox hunting...

On my list of top 1000 issues for evaluating the suitability of the next Prime Minister...

I don't think that one would make the list...

If those are the two biggest things that can be thrown at her, she's in better shape then I thought...

So it's totally OK for the GB PM to be a homophobe and into animal cruelty. Nice.

[Lord Jim]

Yeah, silly me...

I'm focused more on issues like how would they handle Brexit, the economy, national defense, national security, NATO involvement...

that sort of trivial stuff...

Rather than their personal positions on issues they can do nothing about and have no influence over, (I also reject the idea that personal opposition to gay marriage in and of itself makes one a "homophobe") or obscure boutique issues like fox hunting....

I apologize, obviously my priorities are all screwed up...

[MajGenl.Meade]

Could be worse - she might be anti-fox marriage and pro homosexual-hunting.

I too reject the word "homophobe" applied to anyone who fails to agree with the views of the pro-homosexuality mob. A "phobia" is an irrational fear of something - although it may also mean an extreme dislike. Since it is invariably intended to be pejorative by those who use it, the latter meaning is becoming archaic.

I also object on the grounds of language clarity that "homophobe" is more logically "irrational fear or extreme dislike of the same" or for the truly confused, "irrational fear or extreme dislike of men" (a usage more applicable to certain of those within the sub-group rather than those without).

Mind you, her pro fox-hunting stance is perhaps a valid concern.

[Guinevere]

It's May -- Leadsome is out per NYTimes breaking news. No time to post the story right now....

(a victory for marriage and for foxes everywhere)

[RayThom]

(35 minutes ago)
"It means that May, who has run the country’s domestic security for the past six years, could be on an accelerated timetable to succeed Prime Minister David Cameron, possibly within days. She would then come under immediate pressure to trigger the country's withdrawal from the European Union."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/an ... story.html