The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Screwed

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Guinevere
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Guinevere »

I believe the honorable gentleman from Virginia/California is correct. I'll post a link to the Congressional Research Service pamphlet that explains and answers all your questions about a quorum and voting procedures in the Senate.

But first, there's more! YertleMcT is attempting to get this legislation passed through what is known as the reconciliation process, which was originally created for budget passage and only requires a bare majority of 51 votes for passage and cannot be filibustered. Last month Senate Parliamentarian Liz McDonough ruled that portions of Yertle's bill require a 60-vote threshold. As far as I know, those issues have not yet been worked out.

So I think that's the death knell of this particular piece of legislation, and I think the vote next week will be pulled (and/or Liz - a fellow VT Law alum and very cool person who adores her job and who has always been appreciated by both sides of the aisle - will get fired).

https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/ ... bill%3famp


Normally, controversial legislation requires 60 votes to pass the Senate, but Republicans hope to pass the ObamaCare repeal-and-replace bill with a simple majority vote under a special budgetary process known as reconciliation.

The catch is that the legislation must pass a six-part test known as the Byrd Rule, and it's up to the parliamentarian to advise whether legislative provisions meet its requirements.

The toughest requirement states that a provision cannot produce changes in government outlays or revenues that are merely incidental to the nonbudgetary components of the provision.

In other words, a provision passed under reconciliation cannot be primarily oriented toward making policy change instead of affecting the budget. Arguably, attaching Hyde language to the refundable tax credits is designed more to shape abortion policy than affect how much money is spent to subsidize healthcare coverage.

The abortion language that conservatives want in the healthcare bill may run afoul of a precedent set in 1995, when then-Senate Parliamentarian Robert Dove ruled that an abortion provision affecting a state block grant program failed to meet reconciliation requirements, according to a source briefed on internal Senate discussions.

One GOP source identified the parliamentarian's objection to the Hyde language along with Republican infighting over how to cap ObamaCare's Medicaid expansion as two of the biggest obstacles to passing a bill.

A Republican senator confirmed that negotiators have wrestled with the procedural obstacle facing the anti-abortion language.

"That has come up, and there well could be a challenge," the lawmaker said.

The lawmaker, however, said that the problem is surmountable, arguing, "There are ways around it."

One possibility would be to change the form of assistance to low-income people by changing it from a refundable tax credit to a subsidy filtered through an already-existing government program that restricts abortion services, such as the Federal Employee Health Benefits program or Medicaid.

A second Republican senator said discussions on the topic are ongoing.

GOP negotiators picked up the pace of their discussions with the parliamentarian after the Congressional Budget Office released an updated score for the House-passed healthcare bill in late May.

President Trump is pushing the Senate to pass its version of the legislation by July 4.

If GOP leaders are forced to strip the Hyde language from the healthcare bill and cannot find an alternative way to seal off insurance tax credits or subsidies from being used for abortion services, they would lose the support of anti-abortion rights groups, a devastating blow.

"We've made it clear in a lot of conversations and some letters that any GOP replacement plan has to be consistent with the principles of the Hyde Amendment," said David Christensen, vice president of government affairs at Family Research Council, a conservative group that promotes Christian values.

"Abortion is not healthcare and the government should not be subsidizing elective abortion," he added.

Christensen predicted that activists would be up in arms if abortion services aren't barred under the bill.

"If the Byrd Rule were to be an obstacle to ensuring the GOP replacement plan in the Senate does not subsidize abortion, that's something that would be a serious problem for us and the pro-life community," he said.

Republican senators who are thought to be safe votes to support the GOP leadership's ObamaCare repeal-and-replace plan may suddenly shift to undecided or opposed.

"Would that be a deal killer? I'd have to think about it. I'm inclined to think it would [be]," said Sen. James Inhofe (R-Okla.).

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), who has jurisdiction over the tax credits in the healthcare bill, acknowledged it could be tough to pass the bill without the anti-abortion language.

"I think a lot of people do think that's essential," he said.
The Republicans have not yet resolved these issues according to The Hill yesterday:
https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/ ... bill%3Famp
Major portions of the Republican bill to repeal and replace ObamaCare will require 60 votes, according to the Senate parliamentarian, meaning they are unlikely to survive on the floor.

The parliamentarian has advised senators that several parts of the bill could be stripped out, according to a document released Friday by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), the ranking member of the Senate Budget Committee. (Read the guidance here.)

The provisions that would likely be removed include polices important to conservatives, such as restrictions on tax credits being used for insurance plans that cover abortion.

Language in the bill defunding Planned Parenthood for a year also violates budget rules, according to the parliamentarian. That guidance is sure to anger anti-abortion groups who backed the bill specifically because of those provisions.



In a statement, Planned Parenthood said it was "obvious" that the defunding provision would be a violation of the reconciliation rules.

"No amount of legislative sleight of hand will change the fact that the primary motivation here is to pursue a social agenda by targeting Planned Parenthood," the group said.



The parliamentarian has also not yet ruled on a controversial amendment from Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) that would allow insurers to sell plans that do not meet ObamaCare regulations. If that provision were struck, conservative support for the bill would be in doubt.

Republicans are trying to use the budget reconciliation process to pass their healthcare bill with only a simple majority. The provisions deemed impermissible under that process can be stripped if a senator on the floor raises an objection.



Democrats would be virtually certain to deny Republicans the 60 votes they would need to keep portions of the bill intact.

The result is that the arcane rules of the Senate could end up making the bill harder for Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) to pass.

A spokesman for McConnell was quick to point out that the parliamentarian only provides guidance on the legislation to help inform subsequent drafts. The bill will have to change before it gets to the floor if Republicans want to salvage any of provisions in question.

GOP leaders have said they want to vote on a procedural motion to begin debate on ObamaCare repeal legislation early next week. However, it's still not clear if they have the votes, or which legislation they will be voting on; the replacement bill, or repeal-only legislation.

Some conservatives were already questioning Friday why the Senate parliamentarian, Elizabeth MacDonough, would rule against Planned Parenthood defunding, when that provision was allowed under reconciliation in 2015.

A spokesman for Sanders said the guidance has changed because it is now clear that Planned Parenthood would be the only organization affected by the defunding language.

"It passed last time because there was at least a question that other entities could be affected by the language," the spokesman said. "In the interim, Republicans have not been able to show that any entity other than Planned Parenthood is affected, and the new [Congressional Budget Office] score confirms that."

In a blow to the insurance industry, the parliamentarian has advised that two key market stabilization provisions in the bill would be against the rules. First, the legislation can't appropriate the cost-sharing reduction subsidies insurers rely on to keep premiums and deductibles low; it can only repeal them.

Additionally, a "lockout" provision requiring consumers with a break in coverage to wait six months before buying insurance also violates the rules, according to the guidance.

The provision was added to the bill to address concerns that people would only sign up for health insurance when they're sick, if insurers are still prevented from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions.

The parliamentarian also advised that a specific provision dealing with New York State's Medicaid program would be a violation of the rules. Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) seized on that decision.

"The parliamentarian made clear that state-specific provisions" violate the rules, Schumer said. "This will greatly tie the majority leader's hands as he tries to win over reluctant Republicans with state-specific provisions. We will challenge every one or them."
Liz's ruling here: https://www.budget.senate.gov/imo/media ... 5B1%5D.pdf

CRS pamphlet on quorum and voting here: https://www.senate.gov/CRSpubs/577d2a5e ... e41461.pdf
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Lord Jim »

Here's an update from yesterday on the parliamentary situation:
Parliamentarian deals setback to GOP repeal bill

By Nathaniel Weixel - 07/21/17 06:06 PM EDT

Major portions of the Republican bill to repeal and replace ObamaCare will require 60 votes, according to the Senate parliamentarian, meaning they are unlikely to survive on the floor.

The parliamentarian has advised senators that several parts of the bill could be stripped out, according to a document released Friday by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), the ranking member of the Senate Budget Committee. (Read the guidance here.)

The provisions that would likely be removed include polices important to conservatives, such as restrictions on tax credits being used for insurance plans that cover abortion.

Language in the bill defunding Planned Parenthood for a year also violates budget rules, according to the parliamentarian.
That guidance is sure to anger anti-abortion groups who backed the bill specifically because of those provisions.

In a statement, Planned Parenthood said it was "obvious" that the defunding provision would be a violation of the reconciliation rules.

"No amount of legislative sleight of hand will change the fact that the primary motivation here is to pursue a social agenda by targeting Planned Parenthood," the group said.

The parliamentarian has also not yet ruled on a controversial amendment from Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) that would allow insurers to sell plans that do not meet ObamaCare regulations. If that provision were struck, conservative support for the bill would be in doubt.

Republicans are trying to use the budget reconciliation process to pass their healthcare bill with only a simple majority. The provisions deemed impermissible under that process can be stripped if a senator on the floor raises an objection.

Democrats would be virtually certain to deny Republicans the 60 votes they would need to keep portions of the bill intact.

The result is that the arcane rules of the Senate could end up making the bill harder for Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) to pass.

A spokesman for McConnell was quick to point out that the parliamentarian only provides guidance on the legislation to help inform subsequent drafts. The bill will have to change before it gets to the floor if Republicans want to salvage any of provisions in question.

GOP leaders have said they want to vote on a procedural motion to begin debate on ObamaCare repeal legislation early next week. However, it's still not clear if they have the votes, or which legislation they will be voting on; the replacement bill, or repeal-only legislation.

Some conservatives were already questioning Friday why the Senate parliamentarian, Elizabeth MacDonough, would rule against Planned Parenthood defunding, when that provision was allowed under reconciliation in 2015.

A spokesman for Sanders said the guidance has changed because it is now clear that Planned Parenthood would be the only organization affected by the defunding language.

"It passed last time because there was at least a question that other entities could be affected by the language," the spokesman said. "In the interim, Republicans have not been able to show that any entity other than Planned Parenthood is affected, and the new [Congressional Budget Office] score confirms that."

In a blow to the insurance industry, the parliamentarian has advised that two key market stabilization provisions in the bill would be against the rules. First, the legislation can't appropriate the cost-sharing reduction subsidies insurers rely on to keep premiums and deductibles low; it can only repeal them.

Additionally, a "lockout" provision requiring consumers with a break in coverage to wait six months before buying insurance also violates the rules, according to the guidance.


The provision was added to the bill to address concerns that people would only sign up for health insurance when they're sick, if insurers are still prevented from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions.

The parliamentarian also advised that a specific provision dealing with New York State's Medicaid program would be a violation of the rules. Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) seized on that decision.

"The parliamentarian made clear that state-specific provisions" violate the rules, Schumer said. "This will greatly tie the majority leader’s hands as he tries to win over reluctant Republicans with state-specific provisions. We will challenge every one of them.”
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/34 ... hcare-bill
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Guinevere
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Guinevere »

Yes. That's the second Hill article I posted.....
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Lord Jim »

That's funny...

Somehow I didn't see that one when I read your post...

I must have had a senior moment...
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Guinevere »

Lord Jim wrote:That's funny...

Somehow I didn't see that one when I read your post...

I must have had a senior moment...
Get out your reading glasses?? :nana
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Guinevere »

McCain is returning to D.C. today to vote. Will this be a symbolic nothing vote, and would Yertle make him fly in without the votes? Has he turned the three women?

Don't stop calling. Don't stop protesting. It's not over yet.

And if McCain returns to remove healthcare from the American people, well, I won't say what I'm thinking but he will certainly forfeit his hero status.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Guinevere »

Senate Republicans appear on the verge of having enough votes to start debate on Obamacare repeal, with the dramatic announcement Monday night that Sen. John McCain, diagnosed with brain cancer just a few days ago, would return to Washington for the Tuesday vote.

The whip count is still in question with several GOP senators publicly undecided, but Republicans feel a surge of momentum heading into the high-profile vote after a furious pressure campaign by President Donald Trump and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on Monday.


McConnell spent the day cajoling his members and meeting with Vice President Mike Pence to plot strategy. The majority leader was still short of the votes to even open debate, and Republicans still don't know what they'd be voting to allow debate on if they agree to go along with McConnell on the procedural vote.

If McConnell manages to round up the 50 votes for the motion to proceed, it would be a huge political victory. McCain's vote in favor of starting debate would help, but the undecided positions of about a half-dozen senators have left McConnell with a tiny margin for error, and no one's quite sure what his end game is.

To get their members on board, Republican leaders are being as vague as possible about what the final bill to replace Obamacare would include, after two recent drafts met fatal opposition. McConnell is reminding his members that there will be a price to pay for inaction after the GOP railed against Obamacare for seven years.

“The sight of the gallows focuses the mind,” said Sen. John Kennedy (R-La.).

Still, McConnell must pull an inside straight to bring the bill to the floor. From there he’d hope to buy enough time to negotiate with holdout senators to sub in a final proposal at the end of the week. He’ll likely have to throw as much as $100 billion at centrist Republican senators like Rob Portman of Ohio and Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia to gain their support. It’s an idea that Trump personally endorsed in conversations with senators last week, according to a source familiar with the conversations.



But simply getting to a debate on the bill is the most immediate task, and McConnell is expected to continue working his members in phone calls and personal meetings to get to 50 — or as close as he can come to prove the GOP is near a solution on repeal. If the Tuesday vote fails, McConnell can bring it up again at any time, senators said. Republican leaders hope conservative blowback over a failed vote would pressure senators back to the negotiating table.

Republicans are strongly considering a strategy that would tee up two separate votes — one on the repeal only and another on the plan the Senate has been working on to repeal and replace Obamacare.

If one fails, "you set up a vote on the other one," said Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.). The theory behind the strategy is that by making that assurance, Republicans could pick up votes to start debate from ardent conservatives as well as waffling moderates.
In private, McConnell was blunt on Monday, telling conservative activists that Republicans who oppose a key procedural vote on Tuesday to advance debate on Obamacare repeal are effectively endorsing the Democratic health care law.

"You either vote for the motion to proceed, or it is a vote for the status quo," McConnell told the groups, according to Tea Party Patriots co-founder Jenny Beth Martin, paraphrasing the Republican leader.

Capito, Portman, Cory Gardner of Colorado, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Mike Lee of Utah, Dean Heller of Nevada and Jerry Moran of Kansas are all undecided on the procedural vote. They are seeking clarity on whether repeal and replace, or just repeal, is the ultimate end game. Capito, who has opposed the various GOP repeal bills because of their steep cuts to Medicaid, spent Monday evening with Trump.

Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky is a harder get and simply wants to vote on what he calls “clean repeal.”

Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) said she was opposed to proceeding to a litany of possibilities and seems like the firmest “no” vote on Tuesday — unless, she added, “it's going to be a brand new bill, in which case I can't tell you.”

Then there’s McCain, whom GOP leaders sorely need on the procedural vote. He has been critical of both the substance and process of Obamacare repeal-and-replace measures in the Senate, but has signaled that he would at least vote to advance the measure.

"We need him," said Sen. Roger Wicker of Mississippi.

Earlier Monday, McConnell also teed up the National Defense Authorization Act to come next on the Senate floor – a major priority for McCain, the Senate Armed Services Committee chairman.

To get their members on board, they are being as vague as possible about what the final bill to replace Obamacare would include, after two recent drafts met fatal opposition.

But Republicans said they hoped they wouldn’t need McCain to get over the hump. And to get their members on board, they are being as vague as possible about what the final bill to replace Obamacare would include, after two recent drafts met fatal opposition.

“We’re trying to maximize the number of votes. I’m sorry, am I guilty of telling the truth?” said Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn (R-Texas), explaining the GOP’s intentionally ambiguous strategy.

Still, Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) said he expects the Senate to vote on “some version” of the 2015 bill to repeal Obamacare with no replacement. He expects the vote to start debate will be successful.

When asked why he thinks that when many others are predicting failure, Hatch said, “There are a lot of folks who’ve gotten their heads kicked in, too.”

In addition, the Senate parliamentarian indicated Friday that several provisions in the GOP health care measure violated the so-called Byrd rule and would need 60 votes on the Senate floor to remain in the bill. Among the provisions flagged by parliamentarian Elizabeth MacDonough is language that would defund Planned Parenthood, ban abortion coverage in Obamacare plans, end a requirement that Medicaid cover certain minimum services starting in 2020 and allow states to determine what percentage of premiums insurers spend on medical care. GOP aides are already reworking some of the problematic provisions.

One idea under consideration is to broaden the defunding amendment so that it could apply to more entities than Planned Parenthood, according to sources working on the issue. That would counter the parliamentarian guidance that the earlier version targeted Planned Parenthood.

Conservatives are also hoping the GOP can repair their abortion restrictions for plans on insurance exchanges by funneling those tax credits through other programs, like Medicaid or the Children's Health Insurance Program. Those are already barred from using taxpayer funds to cover abortion with some exceptions.

And senators and aides also said they worried a Congressional Budget Office score for an amendment by Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) to allow the sale of cheap, deregulated plans might not be available this week. Any backlog at CBO could make it difficult to score other additions to the bill, a necessity under Senate rules.

Yet despite the steep task ahead, senators supporting the effort said they are feeling some momentum. After arriving Monday afternoon not knowing what was going to happen with the bill, Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) exuded some confidence as he left the Senate floor in the evening.

“I’m leaving here feeling maybe progress is being made,” Corker said.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/2 ... ure-240887

"Progress" to the Republicans means sending us back to the dark ages. Fuck. That. :fu
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Lord Jim
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Lord Jim »

McCain has said he would vote in favor of the Motion To Proceed, but that he's undecided on how he will vote on the proposals...

The only one who's currently 100% publicly against the MTP vote is Collins. Here's a summary of how things are scheduled to unfold, the sequence of events and current positions of key Senators:
Does anyone know what they are voting to proceed to

Technically yes -- the House-passed bill. That was always going to be the case procedurally. After that and debate, an open amendment process would begin.

In McConnell's ideal world, the idea was to have an agreed upon substitute amendment, with 50 votes in support in hand, that would serve as the final amendment of the process, pass the Senate, pass the House and hit Trump's desk. Or something close to that.

But too many GOP senators opposed that amendment last week, so the motion to proceed could open up a can of worms. As Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tennessee, put it to reporters, we're entering a "wild west" type of scenario if the procedural vote passes. Anything that's germane to the bill and falls within the confines of the budget reconciliation rules, can be offered on the floor.

How this will all play out

Republican senators will meet behind closed doors for their weekly lunch at 12:45 p.m.

During that meeting, the final pitch will be made, not just by leadership, but by rank-and-file members who want to move forward with this process. The order in which specific amendments will be offered -- from the 2015 repeal-only bill, to Cassidy-Collins, to Graham-Cassidy, to everything in between -- will also be discussed, aides say. Immediately following this meeting, the Senate will proceed to the procedural vote (at 2:15 p.m. or so).

Who appears firmly in the "no" camp

No surprise here: Maine Sen. Susan Collins

Who to watch:

These senators will decide if health care moves forward or not. Period. They have different asks and needs and to this point, none have been publicly, sufficiently provided to them. But there are a lot of promises being made, along with near unlimited pressure from the White House and leadership to just. Let. The. Process. Move. Forward.

On Tuesday we'll see if that's enough.
Sen. Rob Portman
Sen. Shelley Moore Capito
Sen. Lisa Murkowski
Sen. Dean Heller
Sen. Mike Lee
Sen. Rand Paul
Sen. Jerry Moran
Sen. Ron Johnson

Several senators (among them Collins, Capito and Murkowski), have said they want a "replace" plan ready to go before voting "yes." Sen. Rob Portman, R-Ohio, has made clear "repeal-only" is not a satisfactory option for him. All of these senators have said the House-passed bill, and, up to this point, every version of the Senate bill that has been offered, haven't struck the right balance on Medicaid.

Utah Sen. Mike Lee has said his procedural vote is contingent on the 2015 repeal-only bill being the final product, or changes to Cruz's regulations amendment. Sen. Rand Paul has asked for similar assurances regarding the 2015 repeal-only bill, or a very clear opportunity to separate the insurance stabilization aspects of any bill from the repeal portion.

On top of all of that, entering an open amendment process, where Democrats' sole goal will be to offer politically damaging amendment after politically damaging amendment, is a risky move for any senator who may one day seek re-election.
There's more to the article here:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/25/politics/ ... index.html
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

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This is insanity and pure desperation. Sadly, it could work.
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Lord Jim »

McConnell's strategy is to just get past the MTP and then somehow, someway, pass something...

It was a really smart tactical move on his part to offer a vote on complete repeal without replacement, (even though that option will fail) because it helps get the right-wing holdouts to at least vote for the MTP...

If at least two more join Collins in voting down the MTP, then obviously it's dead, (at least for the moment; this thing seems tougher to kill than Rasputin...) if he gets the MTP he still has the exact same problem he's had all along of trying to cobble something together that will hold the right-wingers and moderates together in a way that doesn't lose more than two votes...

He would still have no better than a 50-50 shot, even as skilled as he is at this kind of thing...

And of course if at the end of the day nothing winds up passing, nobody will be able to point the finger at him for not trying hard enough...

Which I'm sure is another part of his calculation in this...
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Guinevere »

So I know reconciliation is not subject to filibuster. I'm assuming the MTP is not either.

Also, I don't see how any plan proposed by the Rs gets over the parliamentary hurdle.

But yes, Yertle is serving his master well. Anyone who thinks impeachment would be a piece of cake should take a long hard look at this HC process, and learn.
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

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But yes, Yertle is serving his master well. Anyone who thinks impeachment would be a piece of cake should take a long hard look at this HC process, and learn.
Absolutely; the only way impeachment/removal will ever be even a possibility is if the public begins to demand it and the republican senators will desert Trump because they fear for their careers; and we're no where near that point yet.

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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Burning Petard »

"only way impeachment/removal will ever be even a possibility is if the public begins to demand it and the republican senators will desert Trump"

That may be necessary for a successful impeachment, but 'even a possibility' requires attention in the House of Representatives, where the impeachment process must begin.

snailgate

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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Lord Jim »

So I know reconciliation is not subject to filibuster. I'm assuming the MTP is not either.
The MTP on a bill under reconciliation cannot be filibustered.

Also, technically it's not the bills themselves that get "filibustered". Under Senate rules, there are always two votes; the first one is to end debate on the bill and the second is on the bill itself.

It's the first vote that's subject to the 60 vote threshold (but not on legislation passed under reconciliation, or on cabinet or judicial nominees) If you don't get the votes to end debate, you never get to the vote on the bill.

This particular situation is going to have yet another layer of complication, because some amendments that will be offered, (and some parts of amendments offered as substitutes for the whole bill) will also be challenged individually by the Dems as to whether or not they meet the criteria for reconciliation. (If not they'd require 60 votes, and couldn't be included with just a majority vote)

It will be a mess, but if the MTP passes, t will be an entertaining mess...

This is being held with an open amendment procedure, so you'd see all kinds of amendments...

Most of which will never pass...

Bernie Sanders will probably propose an "amendment" to swap out the House AHCA Bill (which will be the original legislation brought to the floor) for a single payer bill....
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

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Burning Petard wrote:"only way impeachment/removal will ever be even a possibility is if the public begins to demand it and the republican senators will desert Trump"

That may be necessary for a successful impeachment, but 'even a possibility' requires attention in the House of Representatives, where the impeachment process must begin.

snailgate
My comment (the one you didn't quote) referenced the *entire* HC process, which began in the House and where any Bill of Impeachment would be drafted and voted upon. It is the subsequent trial that is held in the Senate.

Republican leaders are still willing to come, sit, stay, and even beg and roll over, when the Trumpanzee whistles.
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Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Big RR »

And while I was referring to the senators because this is what we were discussing in this thread, the same applies to the house members who have to vote to impeach.

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The GOP Health Plan-or-If You're Not Wealthy You be Screwe

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Senate Session, Part 2: Airing LIVE Tuesday, Jul 25 2:15pm EDT on C-SPAN2

https://www.c-span.org/video/?431793-10 ... -care-bill

I have a gut feeling that this simple majority vote is going to succeed. Lord Dampnut commanded it. And Yertle will never look more satisfied.

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“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.” 

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Lord Jim
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Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Lord Jim »

Unless there's a surprise, it looks like the MTP is going to pass...

With Murkowski and Collins voting no and Pence breaking the tie...
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Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Lord Jim »

Ron Johnson hasn't voted yet...McConnell is leaning on him on the floor right now...

ETA:

Johnson's voted yes...

Looks like the Dems all passed during the original roll call so they could all vote no one right after another at the end...
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Econoline
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Location: DeKalb, Illinois...out amidst the corn, soybeans, and Republicans

Re: The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Scr

Post by Econoline »

MTP just passed.

Hope for the future:
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People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

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