Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

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rubato
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

Post by rubato »

Lord Jim wrote:Here's what Paul said that was the most reckless and irresponsible:
I HAVE HEARD OF MANY TRAGIC CASES OF WALKING, TALKING NORMAL CHILDREN WHO WOUND UP WITH PROFOUND MENTAL DISORDERS AFTER VACCINES. I'M NOT ARGUING VACCINES ARE A BAD IDEA.
(I apologize for the all caps, it's the way the transcript is on the website. You can read the whole interview here:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102393053)

He repeats the completely unsubstantiated garbage put out by Michele Bachmann in the last campaign and then says, "I'm not arguing vaccines are a bad idea."

Then why even put that mythology out there Senator? It would be like somebody saying:

"I have heard of many tragic cases of children who drink from that well turning into giant lizard people, but I'm not arguing that drinking water from that well is a bad idea." :loon :roll:

Paul thinks he is being clever and 'political' here by lying but appearing to stay just short of it.

Cynical asshole despises his own voters enough to use this kind of transparent manipulation on them.

yrs,
rubato

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Sue U
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

Post by Sue U »

bigskygal wrote:Of course I've spent my first several years of practice in nonprofits and government jobs, but now I'm contemplating whether I want to get into PI work after all. I've joined the bar association here that serves PI attorneys, I'm going to attend some CLE and make some connections and test the waters. I believe very strongly in the right of injured persons to sue for recompense, and I also believe it's the only way many businesses will do what is morally right.
If you're going to go into plaintiffs civil litigation, I strongly urge you to join AAJ as well as MTLA. It's a great resource for practice tools.
GAH!

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Gob
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

Post by Gob »

Lord Jim wrote:
My first pick is Jeb Bush, but I could easily support Scott Walker, John Kasich, Marco Rubio, even Chris Christie....(though I think Christie's got to learn how to "put a sock in it")

Don't be daft, he'd just eat the sock.

Stop putting pies in it would be a better start.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Lord Jim
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

Post by Lord Jim »

Hey, cut the guy some slack, (no pun intended) he's lost 85 pounds...
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Econoline
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

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People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
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Big RR
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

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Gotta love that one econo. :lol:

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

Post by BoSoxGal »

This Canadian commentator's Point of View is the best I've heard yet:

(don't know how to embed this type of video, but it's worth 3:11 of your time to watch it)

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/ID/2652229368/
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Gob
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

Post by Gob »

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THE number of measles cases in the United States has been dramatically rising recently, leading some states to consider enforced vaccinations. The outbreak is thought to have started at California’s Disneyland in December and the number of confirmed cases currently stands at 121, according to the US Centres for Disease and Control (CDC). Parents across the country are terrified. One social media post by a young mother Jennifer Hibben-White from Toronto, Canada, whose 15-day-old son Griffin was exposed to the potentially deadly virus has captured this fear in the most potent way, going viral after thousands of anxious parents shared her chilling story.

News.com.au has reposted her powerful message below:

This is my son Griffin, and he may have measles.
On February 9th, I received a phone call from York Region Public Health, informing me that Griffin, alongside my mother and I, was potentially exposed to the measles virus while attending a newborn weigh-in appointment at my doctor’s office in Markham on January 27th.
Griffin was 15 days old at the time.
I was informed that someone who later developed measles sat in the doctor’s waiting room between 1 hour before and 30 minutes before we arrived. I was also informed that measles is regarded as “airborne” and can stay in the air and on surfaces up to 2 hours after the infected person has left.
I was then asked if I had had the measles vaccine. I had.
Griffin. Griffin had not. Can not.
I was advised to not be around small children. If I worked in such an environment I would be written off work. I do work in such an environment; my home. Where I now sit with Griffin and my 3 year old, Aurelia, who has only been able to get one MMR vaccine so far. She is now, technically, exposed too. We are to sit tight and watch for symptoms: fever, cough, runny nose. If we develop any of these we are to call my doctor and arrange to come in under official medical precautions. We are to wait at home, in isolation, until February 17th, after which the 21 days of possible incubation will have passed and we are clear.
So, Griffin is now Schrödinger’s baby. Simultaneously with measles, and without it. Until he develops symptoms, or until a further 7 days pass. One or other.
And I’m angry. Angry as hell.
I won’t get angry at or blame the person in the waiting room. I would have likely done the same thing...you get sick, you go to the doctor. I have no idea what their story is and I will never know. But I do know one thing:
If you have chosen to not vaccinate yourself or your child, I blame you.
I blame you.
You have stood on the shoulders of our collective protection for too long. From that high height, we have given you the PRIVILEGE of our protection, for free. And in return, you gave me this week. A week from hell. Wherein I don’t know if my BABY will develop something that has DEATH as a potential outcome.
DEATH.
You think you are protecting your children from thimerosal? You aren’t. It’s not in their vaccine.
You think you are protecting them from autism? You aren’t. There is no, none, nada, nothing in science that proves this. If you want to use google instead of science to “prove me wrong” then I am happy to call you an imbecile as well as misinformed.
You think you are protecting them through extracts and homeopathy and positive thoughts and Laws of Attraction and dancing by candlelight on a full moon? You aren’t. I PROTECT YOUR CHILD. We protect your child. By being concerned world citizens who care about ourselves, our fellow man, and our most vulnerable. So we vaccinate ourselves and our children.
You think you are protecting them by letting them eat their shovel full of dirt and reducing antibiotics and eating organic? You aren’t. As an unvaccinated person you are only protected by our good graces. WE LET YOU BE SO PRIVILEGED thanks to our willingness to vaccinate ourselves and our children.
You know what vaccines protect your children from? Pain. Suffering. Irreparable harm. Death.
And you would be the first to line up if you had an inkling of what the death of a child feels like. You would be crawling through the streets on your hands and knees, begging, BEGGING to get that vaccine into your precious babies because that is what I would have done, if I could, to save my daughter.
The fact is, there was no vaccine for her. Not for her illness. And she died. She died at age five and a half, and she is gone.
And I watch these arguments trotted out on Facebook and twitter citing false science and long discredited“studies” that just won’t stop and Jenny McCarthy quotes and “it’s MY choice” to not vaccinate...and I think...what would you have done if your child lay dying? Would you give them a scientifically proven, safe and effective vaccine and risk the minuscule likelihood of a side effect? Or would you let them go, knowing that at least they won’t develop autism (which they wouldn’t even develop anyway because SCIENCE)?
And don’t you DARE tell me that you wouldn’t vaccinate them then. Don’t you dare. You have no idea what it feels like to go through what we went through.
So, look at Griffin. Tell me why he gets to bear the brunt of your stupidity and reckless abuse of our protection? Tell me.
Seven more days until I know that my baby is safe. Seven more days.
How is your week going, anti-vaxxers?
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Joe Guy
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

Post by Joe Guy »

One social media post by a young mother Jennifer Hibben-White from Toronto, Canada, whose 15-day-old son Griffin was exposed to the potentially deadly virus has captured this fear in the most potent way, going viral after thousands of anxious parents shared her chilling story.
Yow!!

Who'da thunk a mother's comment on a virus would go viral... :?

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Gob
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

Post by Gob »

SACRAMENTO (CBS SF) – As lawmakers at the State Capitol consider a bill that would no longer allow parents to opt out of vaccinating their children over personal beliefs, vaccination critic Robert Kennedy Jr. waded into the debate at a Sacramento appearance.

Kennedy spoke to a crowd Tuesday screening a film that claims a link between autism in children and thimerosal, an ingredient in vaccines, according to the Sacramento Bee.

“They get the shot, that night they have a fever of a hundred and three, they go to sleep, and three months later their brain is gone,” Kennedy reportedly told the crowd. “This is a holocaust, what this is doing to our country.”

Multiple studies have rejected any link between thimerosal and autism. Even without any link discovered, the ingredient has been removed from nearly all childhood vaccines.

On Wednesday, a State Senate committee will decide on the bill, known as SB 277. The bill was introduced following a measles outbreak that infected more than 100 people in California and several other states.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Lord Jim
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

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RFK Jr. has associated himself with a number of crank causes.
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Guinevere
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

Post by Guinevere »

Yes, clean water, clean rivers, clean oceans, is such a "crank cause." :roll:
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Guinevere
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

Post by Guinevere »

As to thimerosal, it also used to be used in contact lens products (as a preservative) and gave me no end of problems with redness, itching, stinging, and other irritations. As with vaccines, it was dropped from many, but not all, lens products -- which is one of the reasons I switched to daily disposables.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Scooter
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

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rubato wrote:Jeb Bush intervened in the Schiavo case and tried to get her husband charged for murder.
Bush's unjustifiable use of government machinery to interfere in that family's personal business and his crass exploitation of their tragedy for political opportunism should disqualify him from any political office regardless of any other merits he might possess.
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Lord Jim
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

Post by Lord Jim »

Guinevere wrote:Yes, clean water, clean rivers, clean oceans, is such a "crank cause." :roll:
Was the 2004 election stolen? No.

In Rolling Stone, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. argues that new evidence proves that Bush stole the election. But the evidence he cites isn't new and his argument is filled with distortions and blatant omissions.

If you do read Kennedy’s article, be prepared to machete your way through numerous errors of interpretation and his deliberate omission of key bits of data. The first salient omission comes in paragraph 5, when Kennedy writes, “In what may be the single most astounding fact from the election, one in every four Ohio citizens who registered to vote in 2004 showed up at the polls only to discover that they were not listed on the rolls, thanks to GOP efforts to stem the unprecedented flood of Democrats eager to cast ballots.” To back up that assertion, Kennedy cites “Democracy at Risk,” the report the Democrats released last June.

That report does indeed point out that many people — 26 percent — who first registered in 2004 did not find their names on the voter rolls at polling places. What Kennedy doesn’t say, though, is that the same study found no significant difference in the share of Kerry voters and Bush voters who came to the polls and didn’t find their names listed. The Democrats’ report says that 4.2 percent of Kerry voters were forced to cast a “provisional” ballot and that 4.1 percent of Bush voters were made to do the same — a stat that lowers the heat on Kennedy’s claim of “astounding” partisanship.

Such techniques are evident throughout Kennedy’s article. He presents a barrage of seemingly important, apparently damning data to show that Kerry won the race. It’s only when you dig into his claims that you see what thin ice he’s on.
That's excerpted from a much longer article from that well known right-wing rag, salon.com:

http://www.salon.com/2006/06/03/kennedy_39/
Last edited by Lord Jim on Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Crackpot
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

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Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Gob
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

Post by Gob »

Sharing that!!
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Lord Jim
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

Post by Lord Jim »

LOL :lol: :ok

I especially liked this:
"Just because you give your children pants doesn't mean it's the right decision for everybody"
Excellent ensemble comedy ...

Reminds me of the glory days of Second City TV...
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Lord Jim
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

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BTW, while we're on the subject of RFK Jr, am I the only one who's noticed the disturbing way that he sounds like Katherine Hepburn?

Apparently not given the Google results for: RFK Jr sounds like Katherine Hepburn:

https://www.google.com/search?q=+%22RFK ... ne+Hepburn

I know that RFK Jr. had serious drug problems in his younger years...

Perhaps he snorted so much coke that it affected his vocal cords...
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Crackpot
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Re: Vaccination: the next victim of political polarization?

Post by Crackpot »

Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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