The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

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Grim Reaper
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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by Grim Reaper »

liberty1 wrote:Agreed, which was sort of my point with the OWS crowd, they have no central issue except their mad......... at someone. some people think it's WS that keeps them from making as much money as they want or keeping them from having a job. Sorry, that's just laughable in it's ignorance.
Yet more proof that you don't care about understanding what the issues are, just that you think they look silly and they don't have a central issue, therefore they should be ignored and mocked with extreme prejudice.

Because heaven forbid that we should try to make things better for 99% of America instead of just standing by and making the 1% even more powerful.

Liberty1
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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by Liberty1 »

The whole 99% is BS, and has what to do with WS specifically I have no idea., I'm part of the 53%.

I also noticed you totally ignore my evidence.
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain

Grim Reaper
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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by Grim Reaper »

No, you're not. You are part of the 99%. This "53%" is crap cooked up by the 1% to keep the 99% divided so they can keep their power.

And your "evidence" relies upon ignoring everything about OWS in order to hold on to your narrow world view.

Liberty1
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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by Liberty1 »

So you think these and the other pics I posted represent the 99%, well they don't represent me.

Image

Image

Image

Image
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dales
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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by dales »

Yeah, they represent you....Lib.

Unless you're in the top 1% of wealth in the USA (of which I have my sincere doubts).

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


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Liberty1
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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by Liberty1 »

Yeah, they represent you....Lib.
Only to the Dems who think they do, who unfortunately really believe this is representitive of the 99%.
Unless you're in the top 1% of wealth in the USA (of which I have my sincere doubts).
Seriously doubt it, but that is irrelavent. Arbitrarilly condemning anyone just because they may make more money than you, smacks of the guillotine mobs of the FR.
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain

Liberty1
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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by Liberty1 »

Well if I'm not, than neither was Ronald Reagan.
Assuming this was in response to a previous post, let me clarify. and of course this is only my opinion from my observations.

You are conservative, but you are not a Conservative. You put the Republican party before conservatism, as did Reagan. I am the opposite, I am a Repiublican because I have no where else to go. the Libertarian party is full of nut cases.
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dales
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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by dales »

More from that "left-wing rag" Forbes....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bradlockwoo ... tea-party/
OWS is no Tea Party


One month and a day old, “OWS” is the new acronym, as if Occupy Wall Street is Kentucky Fried Chicken. Pundits and politicians beware: Catchphrases, stereotypes and simple fixes aren’t welcome at Zuccotti Park.

Comparisons to prior movements still abound, as do endorsements – rappers, athletes and other celebrities take a walk through Zuccotti Park and suddenly all 100% of Americans are represented; unions joined the protest despite signs reading “Buy Made in USA, not just union-made.” Even the American Nazi Party supposedly endorsed Occupy Wall Street, but that was via FoxNews.com, eleven sentences total with no supporting quotes, attributed to http://www.weaselzippers.com – a site whose mission is “scouring the bowels of the internet.”

This is becoming a circus, mostly on the media-side because the protestors behind Occupy Wall Street have remained focused and peaceful. $300,000 in donations strong, $2 million in overtime already paid to NYPD, hundreds of arrests and a world watching, I see only winter testing this movement’s true mettle.

Mayor Bloomberg is still struggling with the lack of unrest in this city, one day seeming to support their right to demonstrate then another saying the inexplicable, “What they’re trying to do is take away the jobs of people working in the city.” Other private park owners and important landlords putting pressure on Brookfield Properties and the mayor for a curfew, end this mess or else, Bloomberg’s blatant attempt to vacate Zuccotti Park (for supposed cleaning, citing sanitation concerns) this weekend was upstaged by protestors doing the work themselves and, predictably, gaining even more support.

A new Time magazine poll taken last week showed twice as many Americans approving of Occupy Wall Street than the Tea Party: 54% to 27%. Hold your applause, please. A poll done by Pulse Opinion Research showed similar overall support for the Tea Party two years ago, when that movement was also in its infancy. And that’s where the comparisons end. These are two distinctly different movements, one presently gaining momentum and the other plummeting in popularity; Occupy Wall Street is attempting to represent the “99%” of Americans frustrated with our country and economy, the mass concentration of wealth and power, while the other was mostly older white men with money who voted for McCain-Palin and felt disenfranchised by the election of Barack Obama.............[I'm a 59-year old white guy and feel more akin to the OWS crowd] :mrgreen:

Looking back, it seems hilarious that so many should be so upset. The Tea Party despised all they had created, including the hangover from Bush-Cheney and debt a Republican-led Congress had incurred. Despite the universal rage, the Tea Party allowed itself to be co-opted by those they should have been condemning – Those firmly fixed in the crosshairs of Occupy Wall Street. Republicans were dead-to-rights in 2009, a party in disarray and the Tea Party the cure for its many ills. Instead, the Tea Party brought cannibalism to the cause (RIP the career of Republican Bob Bennett of Utah, among others). Moderate Lisa Murkowski of Alaska was forced to fight an unknown to retain her Senate seat; the litmus tests were intense, based on ideals instead of experience (Christine O’Donnell of Delaware, anyone?) as Tea Party-endorsed candidates helped sweep the Congressional midterm elections in 2010. My best guess is that more than half of them get swept-out next year.
Pray you don’t get what you wish for…

<snip>
Read the rest of this article from the URL. :ok

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


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Liberty1
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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by Liberty1 »

After the Nazi party and Communist Party, OWS gets another big endorsement.

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9007161485
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain

Grim Reaper
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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by Grim Reaper »

Because Iran is such a well respected country with absolutely no reason to portray people as anti-Semitic.

You're just grasping to find some straws.
liberty1 wrote:Seriously doubt it, but that is irrelavent. Arbitrarilly condemning anyone just because they may make more money than you, smacks of the guillotine mobs of the FR.
Just more proof that you refuse to understand what this movement is about. It's not about punishing people because they're rich, it's about not allowing them to continue altering the laws to a disproportionate effect because they are rich.
liberty1 wrote:You are conservative, but you are not a Conservative. You put the Republican party before conservatism, as did Reagan. I am the opposite, I am a Repiublican because I have no where else to go. the Libertarian party is full of nut cases.
Just "no true Scotsman" nonsense. The current Republican party has shifted far to the right, and almost completely away from conservatism.
Last edited by Grim Reaper on Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Liberty1
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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by Liberty1 »

it's about not allowing them to continue altering the laws to a disproportionate effect because they are rich
Huh? They have no power to alter laws, which is one of my primary points.
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain

Grim Reaper
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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by Grim Reaper »

liberty1 wrote:Huh? They have no power to alter laws, which is one of my primary points.
Just look at the copyright extensions that businesses keep lobbying for. Walt Disney died fifty years ago, the characters he created nearly a hundred years ago are still protected, and will be for decades to come.

If you honestly think being rich doesn't get you more access to lawmakers than the "common folk", then you are seriously delusional beyond all mortal belief.

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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by Liberty1 »

I think this diagram illustrates the differences and similarities (which are in some cases significant) between the 2 movements pretty well. Image
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Gob
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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by Gob »

It’s well known that the rich have an outsized influence on the economy.

The nation’s top 1% of households own more than half the nation’s stocks, according to the Federal Reserve. They also control more than $16 trillion in wealth — more than the bottom 90%.

Yet a new body of research from Citigroup suggests that the rich have other, more-surprising impacts on the economy.

Ajay Kapur, global strategist at Citigroup, and his research team came up with the term “Plutonomy” in 2005 to describe a country that is defined by massive income and wealth inequality. According to their definition, the U.S. is a Plutonomy, along with the U.K., Canada and Australia.

In a series of research notes over the past year, Kapur and his team explained that Plutonomies have three basic characteristics.

1. They are all created by “disruptive technology-driven productivity gains, creative financial innovation, capitalist friendly cooperative governments, immigrants…the rule of law and patenting inventions. Often these wealth waves involve great complexity exploited best by the rich and educated of the time.”

2. There is no “average” consumer in Plutonomies. There is only the rich “and everyone else.” The rich account for a disproportionate chunk of the economy, while the non-rich account for “surprisingly small bites of the national pie.” Kapur estimates that in 2005, the richest 20% may have been responsible for 60% of total spending.

3. Plutonomies are likely to grow in the future, fed by capitalist-friendly governments, more technology-driven productivity and globalization.

Kapur says that once we understand the Plutonomy, we can solve some of the recent mysteries of the American economy. For instance, some economists have been puzzled (especially last year) about why wild swings in oil prices have had only muted effects on consumer spending.

Kapur’s explanation: the Plutonomy. Since the rich don’t care about higher oil prices, and they dominate spending, higher oil prices don’t matter as much to total consumer spending.

The Plutonomy also could explain larger “imbalances” such as the national debt level. The rich are so comfortably rich, Kapur explains, that they have started spending higher shares of their incomes on luxuries. They borrow much larger amounts than the “average consumer,” so they have an exaggerated impact on the nation’s debt levels and savings rates. Yet because the rich still have plenty of wealth and healthy balance sheets, their borrowing shouldn’t be a cause for concern.

In other words, much of the nation’s lower savings rate is due to borrowing by the rich. So we should worry less about the “over-stretched” average consumer.

Finally, the Plutonomy helps explain why companies that serve the rich are posting some of the strongest growth and profits these days.

“The Plutonomy is here, is going to get stronger, its membership swelling” he wrote in one research note. “Toys for the wealthy have pricing power, and staying power.”

To prove his point, he created a “Plutonomy Basket” of stocks, filled with companies that sell to the rich. The auction house Sotheby’s is on the list, along with fashion houses Bulgari, Burberry and Hermes, hotelier Four Seasons, private-banker Julius Baer and jeweler Tiffany’s. Kapur says the basket has risen an average of 17% a year over the past year, outperforming the MSCI World Index.

Of course, Kapur says there are risks to the Plutonomy, including war, inflation, financial crises, the end of the technological revolution and populist political pressure. Yet he maintains that the “the rich are likely to keep getting even richer, and enjoy an even greater share of the wealth pie over the coming years.”

All of which means that, like it or not, inequality isn’t going away and may become even more pronounced in the coming years. The best way for companies and businesspeople to survive in Plutonomies, Kapur implies, is to disregard the “mass” consumer and focus on the increasingly rich market of the rich.

A tough message — but one worth considering.

http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2007/01/08/plutonomics/
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

Grim Reaper
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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by Grim Reaper »

liberty1 wrote:I think this diagram illustrates the differences and similarities (which are in some cases significant) between the 2 movements pretty well.
Except that Tea Party "end point" is not what they actually want. They're in favor of big spending, just not on things they don't approve of. Same with "limited functions", reduce the things they don't like, while increasing the things they do like. Make it harder to get an abortion, make it harder to get married to someone of the same sex, make it harder to punish corporations.

And you've missed the point of OWS again, it's not just about restructuring to benefit the poor, it's about restructuring so the rich don't have such disproportionate control. This ends up benefiting the poor more by simply getting Congress to pay more attention to 99% of the country instead of just the 1%.

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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by quaddriver »

Grim Reaper wrote:You proved my point that the Tea PartyDemocratic Party will just "interpret" the Constitution to allow for whatever they can get away with and amend it for what they want stronger language for.

Grim Reaper
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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by Grim Reaper »

Nice of you to continue proving my point that the Constitution is an interpreted document by everybody. Trying to say that one party isn't going to twist it into knots is just silly.

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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by Lord Jim »

I want to make one further point...

While this "follow the Constitution" sophistry is currently all the rage with the Radical Randians, (When Ron Paul is being interviewed, he chants the mantra "follow the Constitution" in response to damn near every question he is asked...I think if I ran into him in an office building and asked, "Dr. Paul could you tell me where the Mens Room is?" he'd say "follow the Constitution") this "Constitution Waving" is by no means the exclusive province of The Right....

The lefties play that game too...

I first became fed up with our old buddy Steve when he kept insisting that my support for The Patriot Act meant that I had "no respect for the Constitution"....

No, I just had no respect for his interpretation of it....
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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by dgs49 »

As a general proposition, when a Conservative wants to point out how the Federal Government is ignoring the Constitution, s/he will point to a section of the Constitution that is being violated (e.g., the Tenth Amendment).

When a "Progressive" wants to point out how the Federal Government is acting outside the Constitution (and when they are not just blowing smoke), they point to court cases.

For the most part, today's Libs yearn for a Federal Government that adheres to the "Constitution" that they have invented in their twisted little minds, rather than the one that was actually written.

What we need is for a group of politicians who have the balls to accept the fact that most of what the Federal Government spends money on is outside the powers granted to Congress under Article 1. The morons who post here and wail that Conservatives just want the government to stop spending money on things they disagree with, but continue wasting money on things they don't agree with, fail to recognize that, for example, Defense spending is authorized by the Constitution, while Federal education spending is expressly forbidden by the Tenth Amendment.

The solution is either to (a) amend Article 1 (Section 8), or (b) repeal the Tenth Amendment. But the States would never ratify either one.

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Re: The Contrasting Psychologies OWS and the Tea Party

Post by Scooter »

It's called the general welfare clause. Suck it up.
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