I Believe My GOP Brethren In Iowa...

[wesw]

sorry about that. Kwame brown was the kid that Michael Jordan drafted and destroyed in DC

kilpatrick

[Guinevere]

They are one proposal, and have NOTHING to do with a constitutional convention.

If you really think such a beast would actually include real citizen involvement, you are smoking crack.

[wesw]

oh yes, this isn t the 18th century, the citizens would be involved..., or they would eat roast beast.

the states are involved with a convention. the local govts are involved in the states the citizens are involved with the local govt. we have the right to assemble and make our views known. there would likely be a couple of elections before the convention was called for by enough states.

...and most importantly, we still have our guns to prevent anarchy and tyrrany

[Crackpot]

sorry about that. Kwame brown was the kid that Michael Jordan drafted and destroyed in DC

kilpatrick

Rotting in jail. That's what happens when people get fed up with people that are only good at talking and get people in place that will actually do the work needed to reform.

[MajGenl.Meade]

What we need is meaningful campaign finance reform, a change to the First Amendment that removes political spending from free speech protections, and the Supreme Court decisions of Buckley v. Valeo, Citizens United, and McCutcheon need to be set aside.

All federal campaigns should be publicly financed, with spending limits enforced. Access to the airwaves -- a public right -- can be allocated to all candidates equally (and there can be some equitable system so everyone gets access to key times of day, or dates). Presidential candidates get the most time, then Senate, then House.

If we had actual reform, there would be actual competition. We wouldn't be left with only millionaires and billionaires running, and the citizens would have real choices. We also wouldn't need term limits, either.

Obviously, amending the Constitution is a big deal, but if the impetus comes from the states (required to ratify any amendment), through the citizens, maybe it could happen.

Enthusiastically endorsed!

Governance is not something you toss off in your spare time.

I think Trump is qualified for the second part of that sentence but not the first.

[MajGenl.Meade]

None of the 27 amendments to the Constitution have been proposed by constitutional convention.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/constitution/

All of them were formulated in Congress and then submitted to the State governors for presentation to the State congresses.

[rubato]

You beat me to it, Big R. Governing is not brain science or rocket surgery -- it is far more difficult. It involves a lot more moving parts, fine calculations, clarity of vision, stamina, determination and delicacy of touch. The way our system is designed, it has always been nearly impossible to have a "successful" presidency. As a rule, the best we can hope for is a president that does not suck in terms of formulating and implementing policy, and who can avoid dragging the nation into unnecessary conflicts both foreign and domestic.

ETA:
... "

Agreed. Government is always difficult no matter if it is democratic or not. But it becomes impossible when we don't admit the facts.


If we try things and they're wrong and we learn from them that's only to be expected. But when we try things and they fail and we just lie about it we are fucked forever.


yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

What we need is meaningful campaign finance reform, a change to the First Amendment that removes political spending from free speech protections, and the Supreme Court decisions of Buckley v. Valeo, Citizens United, and McCutcheon need to be set aside.

All federal campaigns should be publicly financed, with spending limits enforced. Access to the airwaves -- a public right -- can be allocated to all candidates equally (and there can be some equitable system so everyone gets access to key times of day, or dates). Presidential candidates get the most time, then Senate, then House.

If we had actual reform, there would be actual competition. We wouldn't be left with only millionaires and billionaires running, and the citizens would have real choices. We also wouldn't need term limits, either.

Obviously, amending the Constitution is a big deal, but if the impetus comes from the states (required to ratify any amendment), through the citizens, maybe it could happen.

Agreed on all of the above. So who is promoting it?

yrs,
rubato

[Guinevere]

I have been, for the last 5+ years.

And check out Zephyr Teachout ....

[rubato]

I have been, for the last 5+ years.

And check out Zephyr Teachout ....

Ahhh right. Me too. But is there anyone running for national office who has opined publicly on these things?

PS I love the name "Zephyr Rain Teachout" but I'm an aging hippie.


yrs,
rubato

[Guinevere]

So is her father - albeit one with a JD from Harvard and a 7 or 8 minute mile, still. One of my two favorite professors ever and now a good friend.

[Big RR]

Wes--you honestly think a jerk like Trump could achieve any meaningful reform? I doubt it. He wouldn't get a single thing done. Abs ent violence, reform comes from within, and Trump is no revolutionary.

[wesw]

he is trying to get "within".

I don t have an opinion on Trump yet. He is hard to Read. I don t feel as if I understand him yet, so I will withhold judgment for now.

I do recognize that he is the most brilliant and naturally intuitive candidate that I have ever seen. he is the most open and accessible candidate that I have ever seen as well.

of course those same things were probably said about hitler....., and I hate me some Nazis.

[Lord Jim]

hey jim, I fell asleep on you last night

That is a terrifying image wes, that I could have gone my entire life without imagining....

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to take an ice pick to my mind's eye and do everything I can to unsee it...

Governing is not brain science or rocket surgery -- it is far more difficult. It involves a lot more moving parts, fine calculations, clarity of vision, stamina, determination and delicacy of touch.

This...

It amazes me, that a significant portion of my conservative brethren are the ones cheering on this idea of "let's elect a President who has no experience"...

For the past seven years, we have been living with a President who came to Office with very little experience...

A President who had no experience as an executive (as a Governor or even a big city mayor) a President who had a few years as a state senator, before he spent two years as a US Senator before he started running for President....A President who had neither any understanding of the dynamics of how an executive interacts with a legislature, nor any experience with the vicissitudes of the US Congress...

This should be a cautionary tale for conservatives and Republicans; not a template...

Unless you think that Barack Obama has done a splendid job as President (which I manifestly do not ) logic and reason should lead one to the conclusion that we need a President with more understanding of how government works...

Not less...

[Lord Jim]

They are one proposal, and have NOTHING to do with a constitutional convention.

If you really think such a beast would actually include real citizen involvement, you are smoking crack.

A Constitutional Convention would be utter madness...

It would be the worst fate that could befall this nation short of an all-out nuclear attack...

As Guin correctly observes, such a confab would not be led by "real citizens"; plumbers, brick layers, butchers, bakers and candle stick makers...

It would be organized and designed by the same political class we have today...

And by the time they were finished, they'd produce a monstrosity that would run several thousand pages...

I'll take the Constitution we have today over letting our current crop of politicos re-write one, thank you very much....

[Guinevere]

hey jim, I fell asleep on you last night

That is a terrifying image wes, that I could have gone my entire life without imagining....

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to take an ice pick to my mind's eye and do everything I can to unsee it...

Governing is not brain science or rocket surgery -- it is far more difficult. It involves a lot more moving parts, fine calculations, clarity of vision, stamina, determination and delicacy of touch.

This...

It amazes me, that a significant portion of my conservative brethren are the ones cheering on this idea of "let's elect a President who has no experience"...

For the past seven years, we have been living with a President who came to Office with very little experience...

A President who had no experience as an executive (as a Governor or even a big city mayor) a President who had a few years as a state senator, before he spent two years as a US Senator before he started running for President....A President who had neither any understanding of the dynamics of how an executive interacts with a legislature, nor any experience with the vicissitudes of the US Congress...

This should be a cautionary tale for conservatives and Republicans; not a template...

Unless you think that Barack Obama has done a splendid job as President (which I manifestly do not ) logic and reason should lead one to the conclusion that we need a President with more understanding of how government works...

Not less...

On this we agree. As you and others may recall my greatest objection to candidate Obama (and one reason why I worked so hard for HRC in 2008) was exactly the section I put in BOLD above. And his failings and inexperience proved true. I obviously have a different take on how his Presidency will be remembered than you do, but his greatest weakness and failures or where he could have done MORE and was forced into settling for LESS because he did not know how to lead or work with Congress.

[wesw]

yeah, perhaps we would be wise to elect a proven dealmaker and negotiator to work with congress....

[Guinevere]

Whoosh.....

[wesw]

yeah, successfully running the neuro surgery dept at johns Hopkins, with all the alpha males , prima donnas, and massive egos that must be dealt with diplomatically is nothing at all like dealing with congress......

[Guinevere]

Whoosh.....