And so it begins...

[BoSoxGal]

Big RR, as I've shared a bunch of times here, my family background is solidly blue collar - I can count the college degree-earners on one hand out of dozens of cousins. I'm currently working for fairly crap wages myself and living with a chronic illness and only limited access to healthcare. So I'm hardly an out of touch elitist. And I looked back over all my posts in this thread and don't see where I called anybody names - unless you count my references to fascism and racism, which are labels that are appropriately used in response to racist and/fascist statements.

I was raised with excellent manners and despite my occasional meltdowns here, in my real life I've always been the sort of person who would barely say shit if I had a mouthful. My boss has gotten complimented weekly by opposing counsel/clients on the graciousness/friendliness of her new paralegal.

But I'm not going to be politely silent in the face of this encroaching toxicity; if in 2016 a person can still harbor such racism OR utter lack of compassion for people of color that they would support the leadership of someone like Trump who just doubled down on white supremacy by appointing Bannon, that person is not going to 'get' it by having polite conversations with progressives. That person either condones Trump's rhetoric and proposals to enact policies harming minorities, or just doesn't care. I find either position about equally appalling.

[dales]

is that related to this?

[Econoline]

No...not really directly related, maybe tangentially related? Someone here (oldr?) probably gets it.

[Bicycle Bill]

Well, it's a resistor, so that may indicate how E-line feels about Trump winning the election.  Vive la résistance!!
Unless the color code on the resistor (which works out to be 10K ohm ± 5%) is what is supposed to be significant.

-"BB"-

[Guinevere]

Whether the people who voted for Trump are actually racist and misogynistic or not is mostly a moot point, because at a minimum they decided that racism and misogyny wasn't a deal breaker.

So I say again, they voted for him, they own him, and all that means. Buck up and take responsibility for your actions people, just like you like to tell "liberal lefties" to do......

[RayThom]

1K OHM

Resistance is futile...

[MajGenl.Meade]

"Her" meaning my country, meaning Lady Liberty, not HRC.

No one is asking for handouts. But we want to make damn sure immigrants like you can own property, become citizens, vote, and not live in fear because of the color of their skin, the country of their origin, or the religion they practice.

I am not advocating and have not advocated turning over the election results, ignoring the Electoral College. The Constitution means too much to me for that; that path leads to anarchy. But as I said before I will fight with every fiber of my being to protect that Constitution and the liberties it guarantees.

Well that's all right then.

[Bicycle Bill]

1K OHM

Resistance is futile...

first two stripes are digits — brown stripe = 1 and black stripe = 0; so — 10
third stripe is multiplier — orange stripe = 10³(1000) Ω; so 10 x 1000 = 10,000 Ω
fourth stripe is tolerance — gold stripe = 5% tolerance; so ± 5%

-"BB"-

[Econoline]

Well, it's a resistor, so that may indicate how E-line feels about Trump winning the election.  Vive la résistance!!

I knew youse guys would get it pretty quick.

No, the color code is not significant.

Or maybe it is.

I'll have to meditate on that.

Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

[dales]

Well, it's a resistor, so that may indicate how E-line feels about Trump winning the election.  Vive la résistance!!

I knew youse guys would get it pretty quick.

No, the color code is not significant.

Or maybe it is.

I'll have to meditate on that.

Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

That wimpy 1/4 watt resistor will fry with anything over a few hundred milliamps.



With all the push back via Trump, you will need this to start.



This is just for a start, once it really begins to heat up, go shopping for more!

[Econoline]

1K OHM

Resistance is futile...

[Big RR]

Big RR, as I've shared a bunch of times here, my family background is solidly blue collar - I can count the college degree-earners on one hand out of dozens of cousins. I'm currently working for fairly crap wages myself and living with a chronic illness and only limited access to healthcare. So I'm hardly an out of touch elitist. And I looked back over all my posts in this thread and don't see where I called anybody names - unless you count my references to fascism and racism, which are labels that are appropriately used in response to racist and/fascist statements.

I was raised with excellent manners and despite my occasional meltdowns here, in my real life I've always been the sort of person who would barely say shit if I had a mouthful. My boss has gotten complimented weekly by opposing counsel/clients on the graciousness/friendliness of her new paralegal.

But I'm not going to be politely silent in the face of this encroaching toxicity; if in 2016 a person can still harbor such racism OR utter lack of compassion for people of color that they would support the leadership of someone like Trump who just doubled down on white supremacy by appointing Bannon, that person is not going to 'get' it by having polite conversations with progressives. That person either condones Trump's rhetoric and proposals to enact policies harming minorities, or just doesn't care. I find either position about equally appalling.

the terms racist and misogynistic are labels which might make those of us who didn't vote for Trump feel good, but accomplish little. some who voted for Trump clearly deserve those labels, others do little other than to drive people away. We are divided enough, we don't need to push it any further IMHO.

By all means condemn anything you see as wrong, but condemn actions and words, not people except in extreme circumstances. As they used to say during the early Vietnam protests, we're not against the soldiers, we're against the war. We have to live with these people and forge a way to go forward, like it or not. Stand up for what is right and condemn what is wrong and many of them may listen and join in. Indeed, that fight will be my fight as well.

[MajGenl.Meade]

the terms racist and misogynistic are labels which might make those of us who didn't vote for Trump feel good, but accomplish little. some who voted for Trump clearly deserve those labels, others do little other than to drive people away. We are divided enough, we don't need to push it any further IMHO.

By all means condemn anything you see as wrong, but condemn actions and words, not people except in extreme circumstances. As they used to say during the early Vietnam protests, we're not against the soldiers, we're against the war. We have to live with these people and forge a way to go forward, like it or not. Stand up for what is right and condemn what is wrong and many of them may listen and join in. Indeed, that fight will be my fight as well.

Disclaimer: I voted for HER and my wife just signed that petition thing asking the Electoral College to reverse the situation. Hmmm, maybe she and I will discuss that - I'm not in favor of anyone subverting the result of the electoral process. I know that the issue is not cut and dried re the E.C. but fear worse will come if the result is changed.

Thanks Big RR - you've stated far more pacifically and sensibly what I've been failing to articulate. Some who didn't vote for Trump may be driven toward that camp if the left keeps acting like small children tossing their toys out of the crib. Let's fight against something concrete when and if it happens rather than struggle against fear itself

[Guinevere]

Donald Trump motivated you to vote for HRC. Isn't that evidence enough of significant fear that requires action?

You really should resist the urge to characterize protests that you seem to know little about. They are the tip of the iceberg. Real plans for substantive activist work are going on on many fronts -- with existing organizations and newly forming ones --- several that rose from we 3 million pantsuiters and another that is lawyers only, looking to make a difference.

[Burning Petard]

About a week ago I read about breast cancer. More 'whites' get it than 'blacks', but more blacks die from it. The source went on to a possible genetic connection. A particular gene that is related to the immune system's ability to fight cancer is different in many 'blacks' in America. The same difference has been identified even more commonly from females in Africa. The sample of more than 900 females from Western Europe did not show it at all. This convinces me there are objective, significant racial differences.

But more important for me is anecdotal evidence that impacts me. I observe individuals parking their car right in front of the public library entrance (clearly marked NOT a parking or loading zone) or sitting there while waiting to pick up somebody. I observe individuals parking in front of store entrances in strip malls, where the area is clearly marked 'Fire Zone No Standing or Parking' I observe individuals in the express line at the grocery store with full carts, with multiples of the item limit for that line. Nearly all of these individuals appear to be black. Yesterday I went to a automatic bank teller station located in the middle of a strip mall parking lot; 'Handicapped' parking space on each side, stripes painted blue and signage above them. I parked at the curb across from the kiosk and watched another car pull into a handicapped slot. The driver hustled out of the car to get to the machine before me. Their car did not have a handicapped plate or a handicapped hang tag on the inside mirror. That person was black. After I left the area, I was on a road with a divider in the middle, two lanes straight ahead, two lanes for left turn into another shopping mall. Each individual lane had its own traffic light. I and a car next to me were stopped in the turn lanes which displayed red arrows. The straight ahead lanes were both green. There was no traffic visible in front of us in any lane. From the right, in a straight ahead lane with a green light, a car swooped around us in a wide left turn into the shopping center.

The driver of that car was black. I am aware that the social contract has been applied very unevenly between black and white America. Blacks may very appropriately feel the rules should not apply to them because the rules have not been a level playing field for them. I recognize that. But I also see the social contract ignored in so many ways by so many blacks that I must conclude I should not trust them until I have more information about them individually.

I once had a boss who told me that "there is a difference between bias and prejudice. Bias based on data is not prejudice."

I am not comfortable with this observation about myself. But there it is.

snailgate

[rubato]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Confirmation bias, also called confirmatory bias or myside bias,[Note 1] is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses, while giving disproportionately less consideration to alternative possibilities.[1] It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).

A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased toward confirming their existing beliefs. Later work re-interpreted these results as a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In certain situations, this tendency can bias people's conclusions. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another explanation is that people show confirmation bias because they are weighing up the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way.

Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Poor decisions due to these biases have been found in political and organizational contexts.[2][3][Note 2]

[RayThom]

... I once had a boss who told me that "there is a difference between bias and prejudice. Bias based on data is not prejudice."... I am not comfortable with this observation about myself. But there it is. snailgate

I must agree. I've been observing similar behavior for many years. It's irksome but what can you do? In today's climate confrontation is out of the question. A toot of the horn or a blink of the lights maybe, but in most cases I just shrug and let it go.

Due to my neuropathy and lung paralysis, I, too, have a handi-tarded hang tag. More often than not whenever I find a car parked in an HP spot, without the proper ID, I call the police. Unfortunately, they seem reluctant to respond to petty crime but eventually show up. Half the time the offending vehicle has left the spot before LEO gets there. It's obvious there is a segment of drivers out there that know if there is no enforcement of the law then chance are fairly good those laws can be blatantly and continually broken with no consequence.

I'm sure there's a cultural element that can explain this seemingly privileged behavior but to do so could very well expose that person to charges of racism and/or bigotry. These petty infractions would be an ideal starting point to incorporate the "broken windows model of policing" but the last thing police need right now is the appearance that they are unfairly targeting minorities regardless of the laws being broken. It's just not worth it for all concerned.

[BoSoxGal]

Seriously?!

Hey guys here's some news: I've lived in the two whitest places in America for much of my adult life - Maine and Montana. Go ahead, look up the demographics and you'll see I'm right in that statement.

Now guess what?

White people park illegally in handicap spots and no parking/tow away zones ALL THE FREAKING TIME!

There is no race which has more stupid in it than the other - if anything, we have way more stupid white people in the country than any other color.

Seriously. Repugnant.

[Big RR]

Donald Trump motivated you to vote for HRC. Isn't that evidence enough of significant fear that requires action?

You really should resist the urge to characterize protests that you seem to know little about. They are the tip of the iceberg. Real plans for substantive activist work are going on on many fronts -- with existing organizations and newly forming ones --- several that rose from we 3 million pantsuiters and another that is lawyers only, looking to make a difference.

What "protests" am I characterizing? I responded to what BSG wrote, nothing more. And I stand firmly with those who wish to protest policies and make a difference; indeed, I am looking at a number of organizations to ally myself with as well. I still think Trump will be a horrible president and have grave concerns of what he might attempt and lesser, but still serious, concerns over what he actually might accomplish. I am objecting only to the characterizing of all (or most) Trump voters by uncomplimentary (at the very least) labels. by all means stand and protest and condemn and work to reverse what you see as wrong or dangerous--that is something we all must do. But let's not alienate a significant part of the electorate along the way--we will need them in future elections. Just as Trump's policies will help terrorists created marginalized moderate moslems who will feel even more marginalized, so will the name calling and personal attacks on Trump voters push the more moderate of them toward the next demagogue, etc.

Anyway, that's the way I see it; feel free to disagree with me, but I will still state my opinion about something I think is wrongheaded and potentially dangerous fore future. Again, oppose policies, not people.

[MajGenl.Meade]

The traffic scoff-laws in South Africa are all black... and white... and colored...

It may only be the occasional Cuban doctor or Chinese tourist who doesn't blow through stop signs and red lights (in more remote areas), park illegally (my favorite is the sidewalk), and general disregard the speed limit (the whaaaaat?).

Handicap spots seem rather different though. All the ones I've noted here in Bloemfontein are closed off with orange cones and chains. I don't know what the handicapped do.... if there isn't a car-guard around, I guess they don't get to use those spots. I've yet to see one in use anywhere here - just always blocked off.

Same with the handicap entrances at the bank. Securely locked and one does see the occasional wheelchair person sitting patiently outside the bank waiting for someone to notice them and come unlock the door. I tried to help one chap at my bank but quickly learned that the door is LOCKED buddy, to keep people OUT!

Weird