Plan B Forum

And there's only one word to describe them; "pathetic". (Well, maybe two words; "absolutely pathetic")

Obamacare total so far: 106,185

Enrollment numbers released

The enrollment process for coverage through HealthCare.gov has been completed by 26,794 people, the HHS says.

Fewer than 27,000 Americans selected an insurance plan through the federal healthcare.gov site, which is handling enrollment for 36 states, according to figures released Wednesday by the Obama administration. The site is still far from fully operational, leaving tech experts racing to get it working by month's end, as the administration promised.

Nearly 79,400 people signed for coverage through state-based exchanges, with California leading the way with nearly 35,400 selecting a plan.

These figures reflect people who have selected insurance plans through the exchanges, but not necessarily paid for them. Americans have until Dec. 15 to pay if they want coverage to begin on Jan. 1. Open enrollment lasts through March 31.

http://www.cnn.com/

The Administration had projected that they would have 1.6 MILLION enrollees by the end of November...

They may not even get 10% of that...

And who knows what percentage of that paltry number have actually paid, or will pay...

Meanwhile...

1 million lose health insurance in California

Companies continue dump due to Obamacare

(SACRAMENTO.CBSLOCAL) — Health insurer Anthem Blue Cross of California has agreed to a two-month extension of about 104,000 individual policies after failing to give the required 90-day cancellation notice.

The policies had been set to expire on Dec. 31 but will be extended until Feb. 28.

State Insurance Commissioner Dave Jones announced the extensions Tuesday. He said the company notified the Department of Insurance that it failed to give enough notice because of a computer glitch.

Jones says more than 1 million cancellation notices have been sent to Californians as the Affordable Care Act begins allowing individuals to buy insurance through exchanges.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/11/1-million-lo ... california

So the "good" news is that so many millions of Americans are getting kicked off of the insurance policies that they liked, that the numbers enrolling in Obamacare are bound to go up...

Assuming of course that these folks are able to pay thousands of dollars in additional premiums for policies that include services they will never use or need...

The worrying part about this slow start is that time is of the essence. It is not like there are years to get this thing right. To work, the Exchanges need a mix of health people to go along with the known high-cost insured (who make up a large portion of the people who received the cancellations notices). That is why the premiums for this first year -- even as high as they are -- are in fact teaser rates designed to get people to sign up before the rates are ratcheted up in later years. If the healthy people are slow in signing up, this will leave the Exchanges with mostly high-cost insureds. The Exchanges also need paying insureds; the taxes that are paid mainly by employer-provided plans are not enough to cover the full subsidy of the Exchanges. Combine the already expected increase in the Exchange rates, plus the rate increases caused by lower than expected health insureds, and the 2015 and later Exchange plan premiums will increase substantially, making it even less affordable, meaning far fewer sign ups, with virtually no healthy insureds, and the Exchanges become infeasible.

Whoopsy!!

US President Barack Obama has announced a one-year reprieve for millions of Americans facing cancellation of their health insurance policies under his embattled healthcare law.

He said insurers could extend individually purchased plans that would otherwise be cancelled.

While pushing for the law's passage, he vowed people with individual plans who liked their policies could keep them.

"We fumbled the rollout on this healthcare law," he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24947202

What a cluster F*^&
The insurance companies now have to recalculate the old policies for a one year reprieve and have those numbers ready yesterday.
They came up with new policies and new rates for ObamaCare. To go back is not easy, it's not just giving the same scrubbed policy. That policy gets recalculated for the coming year. They (the ins companies) didn't do that for 2014 as they were concentrating on the ObamaCare policies.

They already had a year they just decided to cut a year early and blame Obama care now they can run these policies till the end of 2015.

Really it's just a defection back at the insurance companies that wanted to hang it all on Obama

Actually, most of the insurance companies don't want to reinstate these canceled policies (even if they can somehow get them rated and back into marketable form in time, which is problematic as oldr notes). They are all set up to go with their new-ACA compliant policies and need the people who have been dumped off the old policies to get onto the new ACA Exchange policies. You forget that to get the ACA enacted into law, the insurance companies were co-opted into the deal, and all things being equal, they will make more money if: 1) they have more customers created by the ACA; and 2) they can sell more expensive ACA policies instead of bare bones policies. They were willing to hang on through the slow and inefficient rollout, but are not happy at all that the incompetence in getting the government side launched means they may lose their desirable customers to low-cost policies of insurers who are willing to continue offering such policies.

Dozens of President Barack Obama's Democratic allies have sided with Republicans to back a bill the White House says could gut its health law.

The House of Representatives passed the proposal by 261-157, with the help of 39 Democratic lawmakers.

The bill, which seeks to bypass the health law's minimum requirements for medical insurance, has little chance of making it on to the statute books.

But it is seen as the most significant legislative rebuke yet to the law.

Mr Obama has been under fire in recent weeks as insurance companies cancelled millions of Americans' medical insurance policies because they did not meet the stricter conditions of the healthcare overhaul.
That was despite the Democratic president's promise that people would be able to keep their existing plans.

Really it's just a defection back at the insurance companies that wanted to hang it all on Obama

CP, I'm a little disappointed in you...

You're not usually such a shill...

Just when was it that "the insurance companies" forced the words, "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan" into Obama's mouth? (More than two dozen times...)

And BTW, with all the problems this Mother Of All Clusterfucks is having now, there's still another Shaquille O'Neal size 23 triple E shoe that's going to drop next year, with the Employer Mandates...Which will affect a far larger group of people...

The Employer Mandates are scheduled to kick in on Jan 1st, 2015. That means that starting in October of next year, just as happened this year with the individual mandate, (but this will start right before the mid-term elections) letters will start going out...

But these won't be letters from insurance carriers to policy holders; they will be letters, (millions of them) from companies to their employees letting them know that due to the requirements of Obamacare, their company is being forced to change their insurance carrier, or change their policy options, and raise their employee contributions, co-pays and and deductibles, and oh by the way, the doctor you like may not be in our new network...

At that point I'm sure the Administration will try to blame the businesses, (just as in this round they've tried to blame the insurance companies) but I really don't think that's going to resonate with the voters; this Administration, from Obama on down, has pretty much used up all its credibility on this one...

Those 39 votes for the Upton Bill in the House represent the potential lost seats for the Democrats in the 2014 midterm elections...(that's why those representatives voted for the bill)...

It was only a month ago that the Democrats were crowing about how the government shutdown was tanking the GOP and licking their chops at the prospect of retaking The House...

Now, with the way this thing is unraveling, they're looking at losing 20-30 more seats in The House, as well as control of the Senate...

That of course assumes, (a fairly significant assumption, given the track record) that my party won't find more new and creative ways to shoot itself in the foot...

Maybe by over-reaching with yet another government shutdown in yet another pointless effort to force an out right repeal of Obamacare, or perhaps by replacing senators like McConnell, Graham and Alexander with wingnut nominees who believe in things like voluntary rape...(my party's skill at seizing defeat from the jaws of victory has become pretty well established in recent years...)

Here's something else that's totally bassackwards about this thing...

The Administration spinners like to say, "Well, some people may have to pay higher premiums, but they'll actually be lower because they'll be offset with the subsidies the qualify for"...

But the "subsides" are in the form of tax rebates...

So let's say you've been kicked off your existing healthcare plan, and you sign up for a more expensive one in February (before the end of the open enrollment). You were paying $300 a month, but now your premium is $500 a month...

But not to worry, because you're getting a $3000 tax credit, so overall your bill is less...

The problem is that people don't pay their bills "overall" they pay them as they come up. (Particularly folks who are in the financial situation that they will qualify for a "subsidy" to help pay their healthcare costs)...

So while they'll get that tax credit a year from now when they file their taxes, in the meantime (in my example) they're still out of pocket an additional $200 per month until then...

A lot of folks won't be able to afford that, so even though technically they could have a better plan for less money, because of the way the subsidy re-imbursment is set up, they still won't be able to buy it....and they'll wind up just having no insurance and paying the penalty...

That's crazy...

The way that ought to work, is that if you qualify for a subsidy, as soon as you're signed up with a plan, that subsidy amount should be broken down into monthly installments paid directly to your insurer, so that the monthly bill you have to pay is already offset by the subsidy...

The point I am making Jim is that the Health care companies weren't forced to drop coverage at this point. They did it on their own and Blamed Obama. That happened regardless of Obamas lie.

FWIW I doubt the group plans will have anything near the Cluster the Individuals are mostly because they've been modifying them to get into line with the ACA for a few years now. and they've already took the hit on preexisting conditions and dependent care.

The way that ought to work, is that if you qualify for a subsidy, as soon as you're signed up with a plan, that subsidy amount should be broken down into monthly installments paid directly to your insurer, so that the monthly bill you have to pay is already offset by the subsidy...

As I understand it, many people will have their monthly premiums reduced by Obamacare along with having better coverage. Of course right now all we are hearing about is the bitching from baby killing republicans...

Let me tell you something, personally I'm going to be a winner from "Obamacare"...(at least in theory, initially)

As a small business owner with a family of four, I shell out $1200 a month for a really good healthcare plan...(not one of these $50 a month "if you get sick you die" plans, that the Administration insists are the plans they're cancelling...)

Under Obamacare, it looks like from what I've done in going through the process, that we're going to get the same quality of coverage, (and even be able to retain our primary physicians; my doctor, Kelly's gynecologist, and the kids pediatrician) for about $800 a month...(and that's without a subsidy; I'm not bragging but we bring in more than the 94K cap for subsidies....)

So I'm a "winner" in the Obamacare Sweepstakes...(At least on paper, for the time being...)

But when one looks at all the factors involved, my story is likely to be the exception, rather than the rule...

(And if the seven million/2.7 million numbers aren't met by March 31st, my savings will be completely illusory; I could easily wind up paying more than the $1200 a month I was paying before...)

If my party winds up picking up 20 seats in the midterm elections because of this Mother Of All Clusterfucks...

I want those seats to be occupied by sane, rational, Reagnesque type Republicans...

Not radical Randian loonies who believe ridiculous things like the world was created six thousand years ago...

Or that there's something like "voluntary rape"...

Or that we can send all our Aircraft Carrier Task Force Groups To the bottom of the sea, and cease to be a great power....

These nutcase bastards want a fight?

They've got one....

We believe you Jim, we believe you....

Let me tell you something else that grinds my gears...

These morons who are sleeping on cots in their Congressional offices, and are using the Congressional Gym as a sort of YMCA for showers...

These people are nuts, crazy, abadee abaddee, that's all folks...

Earth to Loonies:

Let me explain this to you...

You have a budget that's large enough to be able cover at least a small local apartment...

Use it...

Have enough respect for the office you hold to not act like a homeless person...

I don't want to have to repeat this...

A bit of perspective from the Daily Kos:

What were we talking about last week? Oh yeah, how the Government shutdown had doomed the Republicans. In a town where the average memory reaches back ten minutes or less, everyone gets a second act. I'm not writing any obituaries.

I'd like to respond to that Econo, but unfortunately my baby killing club meets shortly, so I don't have time...

Crackpot wrote:The point I am making Jim is that the Health care companies weren't forced to drop coverage at this point. They did it on their own and Blamed Obama. That happened regardless of Obamas lie.

Actually, the vast majority of the cancellation letters were required by the ACA. The only individual policies that could continue, i.e., be grandfathered, were policies that were in effect in 2010. Most individual insureds today do not have the same policy they had 3 years ago (I've read it is about a two-thirds turnover). As a result, all of those policies needed to be terminated to comply with ACA -- no choice on the insurance companies' part. For the other one-third, some of those policies remain in place and others were cancelled by insurance company choice because (1) they want those people to go into their Exchange plans or (2) they need a minimum number of policy holders to make it worthwhile to offer the policy. In any event, none of these notices would have gone out but for the ACA, so it is nonsense to say the insurance companies were behind this (except to the extent they went along with the ACA scheme in the first place).

Crackpot wrote:FWIW I doubt the group plans will have anything near the Cluster the Individuals are mostly because they've been modifying them to get into line with the ACA for a few years now. and they've already took the hit on preexisting conditions and dependent care.

It will be a whole different kind of hit. Already, there a numerous stories of employers making 30 hours the normal cap for many types of jobs (read, franchise operations). In addition, the hidden taxes to pay for the ACA are being paid for mainly by the employer group market, so those costs are just now being imposed for 2014. So while the elimination of the exclusion for pre-existing condition and annual and lifetime caps have been factored into the cost of policies, there are other ACA driven costs yet to come.

Joe Guy wrote:

The way that ought to work, is that if you qualify for a subsidy, as soon as you're signed up with a plan, that subsidy amount should be broken down into monthly installments paid directly to your insurer, so that the monthly bill you have to pay is already offset by the subsidy...

As I understand it, many people will have their monthly premiums reduced by Obamacare along with having better coverage.

That is how I understand it to work too, and is part of the reason why it has been hard to get the websites to work. If you go to your state exchange and you put in income data that puts you above the subsidy level, you go directly to insurance company sites to sign up for a policy. If you are in the subsidy pool, things get more complicated, but the goal is that you get the tax credit in the form of a reduction in the premium each month. It gets settled up when you file your taxes, where you calculate your actual tax credit and compare that to the subsidy you received for the year.