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The MOTU strike again
Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:20 am
by Gob
More than a million Americans will lose their unemployment benefits after an emergency federal programme expires on Saturday.
Lawmakers failed to agree on an extension of the scheme before the US Congress began its winter recess.
Former President George W Bush introduced the assistance plan in 2008 at the start of the recession.
Under the programme, jobless people received an average monthly stipend of $1,166 for up to 73 weeks.
The White House says the benefits have kept millions of families out of poverty, but many Republicans argue that the scheme's annual $25bn price tag is too expensive.
The stalemate comes two months after a budget fight in the US Congress led to the partial shutdown of the government.
President Barack Obama has vowed to push for the renewal of the expired programme when Congress reconvenes in early January.
"The president said his administration would, as it has for several weeks now, push Congress to act promptly and in bipartisan fashion to address this urgent economic priority," White House spokesman Josh Earnest said.
An estimated 1.3 million people will initially be cut off with the end of the "emergency unemployment compensation", US officials say.
Millions more could be affected next year after they lose state benefits, which in many states expire after six months.
The financial aid was designed to help US citizens who lost their jobs during the recession and were unable to find new work while receiving the state benefits.
The US unemployment rate fell to a five-year low of 7% in November, according to the US Labor Department.
But the long-term jobless rate remains a problem for the economy, with some 4.1 million Americans currently out of work for six months or longer.
There has been repeated political wrangling between the Republicans, who control the lower house - the House of Representatives - and the Democrats, who have a majority in the upper house, the Senate.
Because of disagreements between the two houses over federal government spending, the US Congress failed to pass a budget before the fiscal year ended on 30 September.
Both sides eventually struck a last-gasp deal in October to end the federal shutdown and raise the federal debt limit.
Re: The MOTU strike again
Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:42 am
by Joe Guy
The UIB had actually been expanded from 26 to a ridiculously long 99 weeks. People who have received the benefit for that long and are now complaining should be deported.
Those people have had more than enough time to find a job. If they really can't find work, they either aren't trying or should apply for cash assistance & SNAP if they want government help.
Re: The MOTU strike again
Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:55 am
by rubato
It was an important program in keeping the Great Recession from being a lot worse and helped the recovery. It is too early to kill it since unemployment is still very high and is still the biggest problem for our economy overall.
References to the MOTU trivialize and dumb-down the discussion. Unfortunate.
http://economistsview.typepad.com/econo ... onomy.html
Yrs,
Rubato
Re: The MOTU strike again
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:05 am
by Gob
rubato wrote:
References to the MOTU trivialize and dumb-down the discussion. Unfortunate.

clueless oaf.

Re: The MOTU strike again
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:25 am
by Lord Jim
I saw a brief man-in-the street, (well, woman-in-the-street, actually) interview snippet on one of the cable news channels a couple of days ago...
The way the piece was set up, it was obvious that the intent was to get the viewer to feel sympathy for the person being interviewed...
This lady, (who was well spoken and well dressed, and appeared to be in maybe her late 30's to early 40's) apparently has been unemployed for about a year and a half...
She told the reporter, that because of the unemployment check cut off, she would no longer be able to cover her car payments, and that having a car was "critical" to her "profession"...
Well, being the sort of heartless, hate-filled repuglican that I am, (you know how we are; we hate clean air, we want to throw grannies out into the streets and we want the only healthcare option for poor people to be death) I saw several things wrong with that....
First of all, when she first went on to unemployment and she had car payments to make...
Why not sell the car, and buy something used with cash? (Obviously if she is using the unemployment to cover car payments, she must also have access to additional resources, since not even the most generous maxed unemployment benefits are going to be more than 2 grand a month)
But even more to the point, if she has been unemployed in her "profession" for a year and a half, perhaps at some point along the line, it might have occurred to her to broaden her horizons beyond this one profession...
This was an intelligent, (well in some ways any way; obviously clueless in others) well spoken woman with presumably some level of education, who certainly wasn't so long in the tooth that she couldn't be expected apply her abilities to some new area. (In the interview I saw she never said exactly what her "profession" was...)
But ya know that's just me; I'm just a compassionless conservative who would just as soon kick a poor person as look at them...
Re: The MOTU strike again
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:30 am
by Lord Jim
rubato wrote:
References to the MOTU trivialize and dumb-down the discussion. Unfortunate.
Yrs,
Rubato
You know, that looks an awful lot like an unprovoked gratuitous insult to
me....(albeit a passive/aggressive one; but extremely transparent)
Anyone care to take rube to task for it?
Re: The MOTU strike again
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:19 am
by Joe Guy
Lord Jim wrote:rubato wrote:
.......Anyone care to take rube to task for it?
Okay... I will.....
Hey rube person!! Stop being a passive/aggressive asshole!!
It makes you seem inept in a scientifically apparent way...
Re: The MOTU strike again
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:12 am
by MajGenl.Meade
I thought it was an opinion though I can imagine an Elvis inspired sneer accompanying it. Still, it's a bit of a prophecy is it not? Aside from LJ's "woman in the street" post which is responsive and interesting, dumbed-down posting has begun (including this).
Re: The MOTU strike again
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:54 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
The White House says the benefits have kept millions of families out of poverty,
Doubtful. UI "wage" is poverty level. It's meant as a stop gap to help the unemployed weather the storm. I was a recipient of UI. And when that was getting close to running out, I lowered my standards in my employment search. I was hours away from stocking shelves on the graveyard shift (at $8 or $8.50 an hour, I forget which) at the local Stop & Shop when my current employer called and offered me a job. Sometimes people must humble themselves and take whaat's out there. Maybe some people need a kick in the ass that terminating the benefits will give them. It will be hard for some, others may benefit. Tough call to make. Can't keep so many people on the dole.
Re: The MOTU strike again
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:08 pm
by Lord Jim
I thought it was an opinion
Oh, it definitely was
that, Gen'l...
He was expressing the opinion that Strop's perspective on this is ignorant and simple-minded....
Which, last time I checked, usually qualifies as an insult...
(Gee, for a guy so observant he's able to radar in on every obscure typo and misplaced apostrophe, it's puzzling to me why you seem to be developing such a blind spot for the bleeding obvious...)
Still, it's a bit of a prophecy is it not?
Actually, it was more on the order of a
self fulfilling prophecy, since it was of course rube, who first "dumbed-down" this discussion with his unprovoked gratuitous insult...
Re: The MOTU strike again
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:15 pm
by MajGenl.Meade
I typed "self fulfilling" first and then wasn't sure if that was truly accurate - it seemed to be correct if he was the
only one fulfilling it. But since we joined in it's not truly
self fulfilling and I did not want to be called to task for such imprecision.
What blind spot is that LJ? We both agree it was an opinion. I confirmed my suspicion of a sneer accompanying the opinion. And that, my dear, would indicate er... an insult which is what you - of the unerring eye - detected and called attention to.
I also refrained from commenting on your last misplaced apostrophe (would that it were

)
Re: The MOTU strike again
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:06 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
So why not comment/opine about the thread topic rather than continue the sidetrack?
Re: The MOTU strike again
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:47 pm
by rubato
If you care about improving the economy at all, then unemployment is the #1 problem we have.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... ngs-worse/
Seven things you should know about the expiration of unemployment benefits
By Brad Plumer
December 27 at 10:15 am
This Saturday, Dec. 28, an emergency unemployment insurance program will expire, immediately cutting off jobless benefits for 1.3 million workers who have been unemployed for longer than 26 weeks.
Here's our full primer on why this federal program is about to sunset and who will be affected. But it's also worth taking a step back and looking at the broader disaster of long-term unemployment in the United States. Here are seven reasons why this issue still very much matters:
1. Long-term unemployment is still at its highest level since World War II. There are currently about 4 million people who have been out of work for 27 weeks or longer. Although that's come down since the nadir of the Great Recession, the U.S. long-term unemployment rate is still the highest it's been since World War II:
The ranks of the long-term unemployed include all types of workers, according to a survey by the Urban Institute. There are young workers who have been out of work for more than 27 weeks. Married workers with kids. Older workers. College-educated workers. High-school dropouts. The problem touches nearly every demographic group you can think of.
2. Most of the long-term unemployed are having an extremely difficult time finding jobs. If you've been out of work for 27 weeks or longer, then you currently have just a 12 percent chance of finding a new job in a given month. And those odds go down the longer you're out of work:
Note that job prospects for the long-term unemployed are even worse today than they were in 2007. And the long-term unemployed have a much harder time finding jobs than those who have been out of work for just a few weeks.
Why is this? It's possible that the long-term unemployed are simply less employable. But there's also evidence that businesses actively discriminate against these workers. In one recent study, Rand Ghayad of the Boston Fed sent out a flurry of fictitious résumés to different employers, tweaking some of the characteristics of the applicants. He found that most employers won't even look at the résumés of the long-term unemployed, even if they're otherwise perfectly suitable.
One possible reason for this, as Michael Strain of the American Enterprise Institute points out, is that employers are leery of hiring the long-term unemployed because they assume there must be something wrong with these workers. Why else would they be out of work for so long? That may well be irrational. But there's little doubt that it's a huge obstacle for these workers.
If the goal was to bring back the recession and multiply the level of misery killing the extended long-term unemployment right now is the right thing to do.
7. All this long-term unemployment is destroying the U.S. economy. Earlier this year, three economists at the Federal Reserve published an unsettling paper arguing that the long-term productive capacity of the U.S. economy has been greatly diminished. The reason? Long-term unemployment:
The economists' argument goes like this: There are now millions of Americans who lost their jobs in the recession, often through no fault of their own, and they've now been out of work for years. Those workers have seen their skills atrophy, their networks fade, and many of them have dropped out of the workforce entirely, discouraged by their inability to find work. That, in turn, has weakened the total potential of the U.S. economy.
This is an extremely worrisome situation. It means that long-term unemployment isn't just a temporary ailment that will heal itself as the economy keeps rebounding. It has left permanent scars. The U.S. economy will never be as productive as it could have been had we figured out how to get people back to work more quickly. And those scars are still getting deeper.
Those who have an interest in a serious topic will respond seriously. Those whose minds are crap will post what they always do.
yrs,
rubato
Re: The MOTU strike again
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:49 pm
by Crackpot
And those that poison the well will pretend they didn't
Re: The MOTU strike again
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:35 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
This is an extremely worrisome situation. It means that long-term unemployment isn't just a temporary ailment that will heal itself as the economy keeps rebounding. It has left permanent scars. The U.S. economy will never be as productive as it could have been had we figured out how to get people back to work more quickly. And those scars are still getting deeper.
Rather than just continue to extend benefits ad-nauseum, why not have retraining programs tied to getting those benefits? Give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime (or at least until the EPA says he can't fish anymore as the stock is depleted

)
When I was unemployed I would have gone for retraining if it meant getting a skill that would lead to gainful employment again. There are probably plenty of unemployed who would go for that.
After 26 weeks of no job, being told "thanks but no thanks" so many times, one gets beaten down and gives up, especially if some money (little as it is) is coming in. Cut it off may be the "tough love" that some need. That and career retraining give people the kick in the ass they may need. Just extending UI benefits while gets a minimum amount of money to those people, it dos not help them with their employment situation. (and may even hinder it)
Re: The MOTU strike again
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:51 pm
by Long Run
This is a tough question. Clearly, long-term unemployment remains a problem for many. However, continuing to extend UI past its normal 26 weeks does nothing to solve the problem of too few jobs; it helps some of the people get by for a while longer without a job but doesn't get them back to work. And certainly, extending UI gives some people the ability to continue to just get by when they need and can do something different. Bad choice A and bad choice B. The only real answer is to get the economy going at a reasonable rate again, and there is a bit of hope in recent numbers.
Re: The MOTU strike again
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:58 pm
by MajGenl.Meade
oldr_n_wsr wrote:So why not comment/opine about the thread topic rather than continue the sidetrack?
Ah caint do thet, oldr. Ahm jes' one of dem dare down-dumbers
Re: The MOTU strike again
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:04 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
Well, I tried. To each his own.

Re: The MOTU strike again
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:34 pm
by Big RR
The only real answer is to get the economy going at a reasonable rate again, and there is a bit of hope in recent numbers.
Well, recent numbers in everything but jobs, at least sustainable ones paying a decent wage, offering health insurance, etc.
And that's the biggest problem, IMHO, in curtailing UI; we can force people who once had good jobs out of the job market and into minimum wage jobs, making it look like the economy and jobs are recovering, but saying it does not make it so, and pulling people out of their searches and into the minimum wage job helps no one in the long run.
True, long term unemployed people have to often be pushed to better choices (and into training programs for different jobs, e.g.), but this requires more, not less funding. But the politicians on both sides just want to claim we are getting beyond the recession and that unemployed persons are doing well again, BS in most areas of the country. Sure, there are those who take advantage of it, but I'd bet most people would willingly trade their benefits for a good job approximating what they had before they were laid off.
Re: The MOTU strike again
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:38 pm
by rubato
Big RR wrote:"...
And that's the biggest problem, IMHO, in curtailing UI; we can force people who once had good jobs out of the job market and into minimum wage jobs, making it look like the economy and jobs are recovering, but saying it does not make it so, and pulling people out of their searches and into the minimum wage job helps no one in the long run.
... " .
Only if those jobs exist. You cannot force someone into a job when there isn't one. .
yrs,
rubato