Did Orwell anticipate the modern GOP?

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rubato
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Did Orwell anticipate the modern GOP?

Post by rubato »

Two chilling pieces of writing. Each is valuable on its own but put together ...

George Orwell Feb 4th 1944:

http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/02_04_44.html
As I Please
Tribune, 4 February 1944

When Sir Walter Raleigh was imprisoned in the Tower of London, he occupied himself with writing a history of the world. He had finished the first volume and was at work on the second when there was a scuffle between some workmen beneath the window of his cell, and one of the men was killed. In spite of diligent enquiries, and in spite of the fact that he had actually seen the thing happen, Sir Walter was never able to discover what the quarrel was about; whereupon, so it is said -- and if the story is not true it certainly ought to be -- he burned what he had written and abandoned his project.

This story has come into my head I do not know how many times during the past ten years, but always with the reflection that Raleigh was probably wrong. Allowing for all the difficulties of research at that date, and the special difficulty of conducting research in prison, he could probably have produced a world history which had some resemblance to the real course of events. Up to a fairly recent date, the major events recorded in the history books probably happened. It is probably true that the battle of Hastings was fought in 1066, that Columbus discovered America, that Henry VIII had six wives, and so on. A certain degree of truthfulness was possible so long as it was admitted that a fact may be true even if you don't like it. Even as late as the last war it was possible for the Encyclopedia Britannica, for instance, to compile its articles on the various campaigns partly from German sources. Some of the facts -- the casualty figures, for instance -- were regarded as neutral and in substance accepted by everybody. No such thing would be possible now. A Nazi and a non-Nazi version of the present war would have no resemblance to one another, and which of them finally gets into the history books will be decided not by evidential methods but on the battlefield.

During the Spanish civil war I found myself feeling very strongly that a true history of this war never would or could be written. Accurate figures, objective accounts of what was happening, simply did not exist. And if I felt that even in 1937, when the Spanish Government was still in being, and the lies which the various Republican factions were telling about each other and about the enemy were relatively small ones, how does the case stand now? Even if Franco is overthrown, what kind of records will the future historian have to go upon? And if Franco or anyone at all resembling him remains in power, the history of the war will consist quite largely of "facts" which millions of people now living know to be lies. One of these "facts," for instance, is that there was a considerable Russian army in Spain. There exists the most abundant evidence that there was no such army. Yet if Franco remains in power, and if Fascism in general survives, that Russian army will go into the history books and future school children will believe in it. So for practical purposes the lie will have become truth.

This kind of thing is happening all the time. Out of the milions of instances which must be available, I will choose one which happens to be verifiable. During part of 1941 and 1942, when the Luftwaffe was busy in Russia, the German radio regaled its home audiences with stories of devestating air raids on London. Now, we are aware that those raids did not happen. But what use would our knowledge be if the Germans conquered Britain? For the purposes of a future historian, did those raids happen, or didn't they? The answer is: If Hitler survives, they happened, and if he falls they didn't happen. So with innumerable other events of the past ten or twenty years. Is the Protocols of the Elders of Zion a genuine document? Did Trotsky plot with the Nazis? How many German aeroplanes were shot down in the Battle of Britain? Does Europe welcome the New Order? In no case do you get one answer which is universally accepted because it is true: in each case you get a number of totally incompatible answers, one of which is finally adopted as the result of a physical struggle. History is written by the winners.

In the last analysis our only claim to victory is that if we win the war we shall tell fewer lies about it than our adversaries. The really frightening thing about totalitarianism is not that it commits "atrocities" but that it attacks the concept of objective truth; it claims to control the past as well as the future. In spite of all the lying and self-righteousness that war encourages, I do not honestly think it can be said that that habit of mind is growing in Britain. Taking one thing with another, I should say that the press is slightly freer than it was before the war. I know out of my own experience that you can print things now which you couldn't print ten years ago. War resisters have probably been less maltreated in this war than in the last one, and the expression of unpopular opinion in public is certainly safer. There is some hope, therefore, that the liberal habit of mind, which thinks of truth as something outside yourself, something to be discovered, and not as something you can make up as you go along, will survive. But I still don't envy the future historian's job. Is it not a strange commentary on our time that even the casualties in the present war cannot be estimated within several millions?
Wait for it...

yrs,
rubato

rubato
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Re: Did Orwell anticipate the modern GOP?

Post by rubato »

From the Bush White House:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html
This is from 2004 - nearly 10 years ago. As far as I know, not one person has been punished for the lies that led up to Iraq. 4485 confirmed American deaths and 25,000+ injured, many brutally. Not to mention the psychological injuries.
"
I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html

see link for more. A lot more.


yrs,
rubato

rubato
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Re: Did Orwell anticipate the modern GOP?

Post by rubato »

I am surprised that no one had the energy to get through 90s worth of excellent writing by George Orwell. Not astonished, but mildly surprised.


yrs,
rubato

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Did Orwell anticipate the modern GOP?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

I read it. Spurred some research on Luftwaffe gegen England and the diversion by Hitler of heavy bombers to the Balkans (not Russia, where IIRC 'heavy' bombers were of little use due to limited range and targets - Stukas and fighters were more useful against tanks etc). If the thesis is simply that the victors write the history, Orwell is hardly original with that thought but like all ideas it's good to see it updated and applied to what was the current situation then - using examples people could understand from their own experience/knowledge/research. Given Franco's longevity (and I believe he is still dead), the notion of "hoardes" of Russians died a long time before either he and fascism bit the dust. That Russia and Germany both tried out their fledgling weaponry in Spain is presumably still true, regardless of who "won".

I find the linkage between the two posted articles to be tenuous at best.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Lord Jim
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Re: Did Orwell anticipate the modern GOP?

Post by Lord Jim »

I never bothered to open this until I saw Meade had posted, because the subject line shouted, " WARNING: TROLL THREAD AHEAD ; DON'T BOTHER"...

Interesting Orwell piece but otherwise I was right. Alleged quotes from an unnamed adviser are supposed to represent "the modern GOP"...

Exactly the same kind of simplistic thinking Lib has been accused of; zero substance. Nothing for anyone with a serious interest in, or knowledge of, politics. Not worth the bandwidth it occupies.

(Though as a follow-up comment on The Delong Note Pad it might be interpreted as serious scholarship. The sycophantic mental mediocritites that follow that thing appear to have a pretty low bar for intellectual content.)

I think it's unfortunate for rube that Dave doesn't post as often as he used to . Dave used to regularly take the bait of these vacuous troll threads and jump in with a reply; now they frequently sink to the bottom with nobody bothering...(As I mentioned earlier, I have generally been ignoring these threads for a long time; they're not hard to spot. Subtlety isn't really the strong point here)

Based on his second post, nobody biting on this stuff appears to be causing some frustration for rube. Of course he could try to take a more serious, thoughtful and substantive approach that might actually bring some engagement, but I won't hold my breath.
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Gob
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Re: Did Orwell anticipate the modern GOP?

Post by Gob »

I looked at it and thought; "Oh boy, he's found another article he agrees with," and left it at that......
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

Jarlaxle
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Re: Did Orwell anticipate the modern GOP?

Post by Jarlaxle »

In other words: he's drooling again.
Treat Gaza like Carthage.

rubato
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Re: Did Orwell anticipate the modern GOP?

Post by rubato »

It is a long article and uses so many big words and things. I didn't really expect you to try to read it. I hoped, but didn't expect it. But I posted a link for the rare few who care about things and want to understand.


yrs,
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rubato
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Re: Did Orwell anticipate the modern GOP?

Post by rubato »

A continuation:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10771

yrs,
rubato

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