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And an inverted cross as state symbol wouldn't endorse Satan
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:53 pm
by Scooter
BATON ROUGE, La. -- Lawmakers are moving ahead with a proposal to name the Bible as Louisiana's official state book, despite concerns the bill would land the Legislature in court.
A House municipal committee advanced the bill Thursday with an 8-5 vote, sending it to the full House for debate.
Rep. Thomas Carmody, R-Shreveport, said he sponsored the proposal after a constituent made the request. But Carmody insisted the bill wasn't designed to be a state-endorsement of Christianity or a specific religion. (how do you spell "full of shit" - C-A-R-M-O-D-Y)
"It's not to the exclusion of anyone else's sacred literature," he told the House committee. Again, later he said, "This is not about establishing an official religion of the state of Louisiana."
Lawmakers who voted against the measure said it raises questions about whether Louisiana would be violating the separation of church and state.
link
"Raises questions" does it? It was as clear a statement of their intent to run the state as a Christian theocracy that proponents of the measure believed they could get away with.
Re: And an inverted cross as state symbol wouldn't endorse S
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:03 pm
by Long Run
In contrast, if there were a state book of Oregon, it would likely be One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.
For California, some might pick Grapes of Wrath, but I'd favor McTeague (made into the movie Greed) as being more reflective of the state's character.
Re: And an inverted cross as state symbol wouldn't endorse S
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:06 pm
by rubato
"Cuckoo's Nest is a great book and an outstanding movie but "sometimes a great Notion"* reflects more of the local landscape.
Yrs,
Rubato
*didn't make as good a movie even with Henry Fonda.
Re: And an inverted cross as state symbol wouldn't endorse S
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:49 pm
by dgs49
Quick review: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
What part of this would be violated if the LEGISLATURE OF LOUISIANA passed a law making the Bible the official state book of Louisiana? Would it prevent jews from going to the synagogue, mormons from going to their temples, or atheists from reading the New York Times? I don't think so.
It's a dumb idea but has nothing to do with the U.S. Constitution.
Re: And an inverted cross as state symbol wouldn't endorse S
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:11 pm
by Lord Jim
Does an "official state book" confer some sort of special status to it from a legal standpoint?
Laying aside the question of whether it's a "good idea" or "bad idea", I don't think it has any legal significance or implications attached to it...
Does an "official state bird" enjoy some sort of enhanced legal status?
Re: And an inverted cross as state symbol wouldn't endorse S
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:06 pm
by Long Run
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...
What part of this would be violated if the LEGISLATURE OF LOUISIANA passed a law making the Bible the official state book of Louisiana?"
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Since 1925, this sentence in the 14th Amendment has been held to apply the First Amendment religious protections to the states (Gitlow), and the no-establishment rule was decided in 1947 (Everson). Never mind that most states have their own constitutions that mirror the U.S. Constitution, including Louisiana:
ยง8. Freedom of Religion
Section 8. No law shall be enacted respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
Making the Bible
the state book is intended to be a legislative statement in favor of the religions which are based on the Bible, and thus, seems clearly to be a law respecting establishment of religion. They get a two for one on this by violating both constitutions.
Re: And an inverted cross as state symbol wouldn't endorse S
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:12 pm
by Big RR
Lord Jim wrote:Does an "official state book" confer some sort of special status to it from a legal standpoint?
Laying aside the question of whether it's a "good idea" or "bad idea", I don't think it has any legal significance or implications attached to it...
Does an "official state bird" enjoy some sort of enhanced legal status?
By that reasoning, I imagine one could have an official state religion as well unless the designation could be shown to confer some special status. I doubt it would pass constitutional muster.
Re: And an inverted cross as state symbol wouldn't endorse S
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:30 pm
by Rick
Oh come on they have parishes instead of counties nobody balked
Re: And an inverted cross as state symbol wouldn't endorse S
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:43 pm
by Sue U
As Long Run notes, the First Amendment has long been held to be applicable to the states as well as the federal government.
The test for constitutional violation of the Establishment Clause is whether the state action has the appearance of endorsing a religion, or religion over non-religion. See Allegheny County v. Greater Pittsburgh ACLU, 492 U.S. 573 (1989), a case arising almost literally in dgs49's back yard. There is simply no question that making the Bible the "official state book" has the appearance of endorsing Bible-based religion (at least).
This isn't even a close call. And dgs49 fails basic first-year Con Law yet again.
Re: And an inverted cross as state symbol wouldn't endorse S
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:18 pm
by TPFKA@W
Meanwhile healthcare in this country is a mess. Good thing we have stuff like this to keep our minds off that.
Re: And an inverted cross as state symbol wouldn't endorse S
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:26 am
by Scooter
dgs49 wrote:Quick review: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
What part of this would be violated if the LEGISLATURE OF LOUISIANA passed a law making the Bible the official state book of Louisiana?
Once again you prove yourself to have been lying every time you claim to have ever darkened the doors of a law school.
I thought I would miss the village idiot as an endless source of foot-in-mouth syndrome, but you are filling the gap quite nicely.
Re: And an inverted cross as state symbol wouldn't endorse S
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:50 am
by MajGenl.Meade
I think it's a silly idea, whether or not it's legally viable (it isn't).
That is all.