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The UKIP

Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 7:44 pm
by Lord Jim
In "Laffs" there's a post about the UKIP (United Kingdom Independence Party). I'm pretty familiar with the BNP and the EDL, but I really didn't know much about this group, so I've done a little research.

This organization has been around since the early 90's, but under the saavy leadership of former Tory Nigel Farage, they have surged in popularity far beyond anything that any other right wing nationalist party has ever managed to achieve.

BNP, EDL, and their fore runner, The National Front, never registered more than a blip in opinion polls and have never moved past the fringe in popularity. By contrast, if parliamentary elections were held today, three recent polls show the UKIP would catapult from no elected members to being the third largest party in the British Parliament, easily eclipsing the Liberals:

Voter support for Britain's anti-European Union UK Independence Party (UKIP) is at a record high according to one opinion poll on Sunday (13 , reflecting growing approval of the party ahead of European elections next month.

The rising popularity of UKIP, which calls for an immediate withdrawal from the EU and tighter immigration laws, threatens to split the vote for Prime Minister David Cameron at European parliament elections in May and a national election in 2015.

UKIP's profile has been raised by the upcoming European elections on May 22, when polls suggest it could beat Cameron's party into third place.

A ComRes poll of voting intentions for next year's national election put UKIP on 20 percent - up four percentage points at their highest in the four-year history of the poll. Cameron's Conservatives fell three points to 29 percent.

The main opposition Labour party were steady at 35 percent, while the Liberal Democrats, junior partners in the coalition government, sank 2 percentage points to a new low of 7 percent.

A second poll by Opinium on Sunday showed UKIP three percentage points higher, at 18 percent, while another survey released last week gave the party 15 percent - matching its highest ever rating in polls conducted by Ipsos Mori.
http://www.euractiv.com/sections/uk-eur ... ote-301532

Even more impressive, the UKIP is poised to finish first in Britain in the European Parliament elections scheduled for later this month:
The ComRes/ITV News poll put support for Ukip at 38% for the European elections – an increase of eight points since the beginning of the month. Labour is down three points on 27% while the Tories trail in third place on 18%, down four points. The Liberal Democrats remain unchanged on 8%.

Tom Mludzinski, the head of political polling at ComRes, said: "Ukip look set to pull off something spectacular at next month's European elections."
http://www.euractiv.com/sections/uk-eur ... ote-301532

These are some pretty stunning and remarkable numbers. Based on a little research I've done, I believe there are two principle factors which explain the huge surge in popularity for this nationalist party:

First, Farage has done a very effective job of persuading a significant portion of the electorate that his party is not racist, (though a recent poll shows that nearly a third of Brits still believe that it is) and he works pretty aggressively to sell this message. Even to the point of actively rooting out and expelling people who have gravitated to the party from either the BNP or the EDL. Here's an example, from the UKIP website:

UKIP begins expulsion proceedings against two members

UKIP has today set in train expulsion procedures against two members after an internal investigation found that both had links to organisations incompatible with party membership.

The first was discovered to have been a member of the BNP from 2005-2010, the second to have been a donor to the EDL.

Both men still have the right of an appeal in writing to the NEC and for that reason their identities will not be disclosed at this time.

A UKIP spokesman said: "UKIP is a non-racist, non-sectarian party and we are determined to uphold those values. Part of that process is maintaining vigilance against the possibility of infiltration either on an organised or individual basis by those who do not subscribe to our values."
http://www.ukip.org/ukip_begins_expulsi ... wo_members

As a result, Farage has been able to tap into and exploit deep resentment and anger among a substantial number of the British public to an extent that other right-wing parties have never been able to do. Because he has successfully sold this "not a racist party" message, millions of Brits who would never have supported the bully boys of the BNP or the EDL, no matter how pissed off they were with the mainstream parties, are open to supporting the UKIP.

Farage has to a great extent succeeded in making rightwing nationalism "respectable" to substantial portion of the electorate. Every time another bureaucrat in Brussels over rules a British court decision, or another story appears in the press about immigrants gaming the system, or Muslims receiving special treatment, this is the party that's best poised to benefit.

If you look at the party's manifesto, it's easy to understand the appeal to a country that believes it's citizens are getting shafted by international agreements; you can check it out here:

http://www.ukip.org/issues

(Hell, there's a lot of stuff in there I'd certainly agree with; though I disagree with them about foreign aid; I think that can represent an intelligent investment)

The number of Brits who consider the UKIP a racist party is slightly less than the percentage that supports Labour, so basically except for the left of the electorate (that would never support a Conservative party of any type) the rest of the voters seem at least open to giving this group a hearing. Farage is succeeding at "mainstreaming" rightwing nationalism.

This now brings me to what I see as the second reason for the UKIP's success; it's a reason I've mentioned before:

Extreme parties thrive when mainstream parties fail to adequately address the concerns of the populace.

And in this case, that failure is pretty specific. It lies with frustration with David Cameron over his foot dragging and temporizing regarding either renegociating a deal with the EU that restores a large measure of national sovereignty to the UK, or presenting the public with an up or down referendum vote on EU membership.

He promised in the last elections to pursue the first policy and present the later if he failed, but he has moved at a glacial pace. This has deepened the frustration many Brits feel about a sense that they are losing control over their own country, a frustration that further widens and deepens with every new incident or story like the ones I referenced earlier.

So basically, to summarize, what has happened here that explains the UKIPs soaring popularity, is a failure of the political establishment to meet the concerns of the people, coupled with a political organization that has crafted it's message in such a way that it can effectively capitalize on that failure.

Re: The UKIP

Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 9:45 pm
by Gob
Jim, some may think an electable racist party is a good thing.

But you have nailed it with this statement;
So basically, to summarize, what has happened here that explains the UKIPs soaring popularity, is a failure of the political establishment to meet the concerns of the people, coupled with a political organization that has crafted it's message in such a way that it can effectively capitalize on that failure.
Image

When we were in the UK last, virtually every person working ins service industry we had contact with was a recent immigrant. To us that's not a bad thing, probably better to have a keen person who wants to better themselves doing this work, than trying to force a workshy low-life dole-claiming Brit into doing it. But the UK is a small island with limited capacity.

Re: The UKIP

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 1:54 pm
by dgs49
Clearly, the problem is not immigrants who want to come to England to "better themselves." Such immigrants are part of the lifeblood of any vibrant society.

The problem is immigrants who detest English culture, society and traditions, but want to take advantage of its freedoms (when compared to their native country), the English welfare state, and potential for prosperity, while living in closed-off enclaves, intentionally cut off from the rest of society.

The fact that most of the latter are not pale-skinned caucasians does not make those who oppose their immigration "racist."

Re: The UKIP

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 9:02 pm
by Gob
dgs49 wrote:
The problem is immigrants who detest English culture, society and traditions, but want to take advantage of its freedoms (when compared to their native country), the English welfare state, and potential for prosperity, while living in closed-off enclaves, intentionally cut off from the rest of society.

Agreed.

Re: The UKIP

Posted: Sat May 17, 2014 11:41 pm
by Lord Jim
I was just checking some new, polls, and for the time being at least the Tories have rebounded somewhat, both for the pending EU elections and next year's parliamentary vote...

I'm sure this has helped in that regard:
Britain Expands Power to Strip Citizenship From Terrorism Suspects

LONDON — Britain has passed legislation that allows the government to strip terrorism suspects of their citizenship even if it renders them stateless, taking the country’s already sweeping powers to revoke nationality a step further.

After four months of wrangling, the House of Lords, the Parliament’s upper chamber, approved on Monday a clause in a new immigration bill that removes a previous restriction on leaving individuals without citizenship. The bill became law on Wednesday, after receiving royal assent.

Britain has been one of the few Western countries that can revoke citizenship and its associated rights from dual citizens, even native-born Britons, if they are suspected or convicted of acts of terrorism or disloyalty. The government has stepped up its use of this tactic in recent years. In two cases, suspects have subsequently been killed in American drone strikes.

The new rules will broaden these so-called deprivation powers to include Britons who have no second nationality, provided that they were naturalized as adults. If the home secretary deems that their citizenship is “seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the United Kingdom,” it can be taken away, effective immediately, without a public hearing. A suspect whose citizenship rights have been stripped has 28 days to appeal to a special immigration court.

Earlier this year, lawmakers in the upper house rejected a version of the provision, questioning its effectiveness in improving national security and voicing concerns about the moral implications of leaving people without the basic rights associated with citizenship. But after a number of concessions by the government, the clause was approved by 286 votes to 193.

Home Secretary Theresa May has agreed that the new power should be reviewed every three years by a government-appointed expert and said she would use the provision only if she had “reasonable grounds for believing” a suspect is able to obtain the citizenship of another country.

Some lawmakers questioned whether the provision would work in practice. “Would another country seriously consider giving nationality, even to someone who might have the ability to apply for nationality of that country, if it knew that British citizenship had been removed on the grounds that the person was believed to be in some way linked to, or to condone, international terrorism?” asked Helena Kennedy, a member of the House of Lords for the opposition Labour Party.

Under previous legislation, 42 people since 2006 have been stripped of their British citizenship, 20 of them last year, according to a freedom of information request filed by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, a research organization at City University London that first drew attention to the practice in December 2012.

The new legislation appears to be inspired in part by a specific case in which the government did not get its way. A spokesman for the Home Office, John Taylor, said this week that the case of Hilal al-Jedda, an Iraqi-born naturalized Briton who lost his British nationality in 2007 after being detained in Iraq on suspicion of smuggling explosives, had highlighted a “loophole” in the law.

Out of 15 appeals, the case of Mr. Jedda is the only one to have succeeded. Britain’s Supreme Court ruled in October that Mr. Jedda could not be deprived of his British nationality because it would make him stateless: Iraq bans dual citizenship and canceled Mr. Jedda’s passport in 2000 when he was naturalized in Britain. The British government was forced to reinstate his citizenship on Oct. 9, 2013.

But on Nov. 1, Mr. Jedda was stripped of his nationality a second time, and in January the Home Office rushed before Parliament the amendment allowing deprivation even if it results in statelessness.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/world ... nship.html

Re: The UKIP

Posted: Sat May 17, 2014 11:45 pm
by Gob
I cannot wait to see the hand-wringing from certain sections of the UK chattering classes on the "huge-manatee" issues of depriving terrorists of citizenship, benefits, free houses and a plethora of social workers to be at their beck and call....

Image

Re: The UKIP

Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 12:00 am
by Lord Jim
I expect there will be more of this sort of legislation, as next year's elections draw nearer and the Conservatives (and the Liberals) try to win back supporters they have lost to the UKIP...

Frequently it is only the fear of getting bounced out on their asses by an angry and fed up electorate that stirs politicians to action...

Re: The UKIP

Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 12:04 am
by Gob
Agreed. You cannot ignore public sentiment for so long and expect to be elected, neither does a "we know better than you what's best for the country" attitude get you votes.

Re: The UKIP

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 3:56 am
by Gob
Eurosceptic and far-right parties have seized ground in elections to the European parliament, in what France's PM called a "political earthquake".

While the French National Front and UK Independence Party both appear headed for first place, the three big centrist blocs in parliament all lost seats.

The outcome means a greater say for those who want to cut back the EU's powers, or abolish it completely.

But EU supporters will be pleased that election turnout was slightly higher.

It was 43.1%, according to provisional European Parliament figures. That would be the first time turnout had not fallen since the previous election - but would only be an improvement of 0.1%

Highlights
(based on exit polls/provisional results)

France National Front storm to victory - 26%, 25 seats; Centre-right UMP 21%; President Hollande's Socialists a poor third with 14% - lowest ever EP score

Britain Eurosceptic UKIP heading for first place, with 29%. Conservatives and Labour about 23% each. Greens beating Lib Dems.

Italy Centre-left PM Matteo Renzi scores strong 40%, fending off ex-comic Beppe Grillo's anti-establishment Five Star with 22%, and ex-PM Silvio Berlusconi's Forza Italia with 16%

Germany Angela Merkel wins another election - 36% for her Christian Union, 27% for the centre-left SPD. Eurosceptic AfD score strong 7%.

Greece Early results show far-left Syriza on 26%, PM Antonis Samaras' New Democracy on 23%. Far-right Golden Dawn set to get three MEPs, with 9%

Re: The UKIP

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 4:26 am
by Gob
Lord Jim wrote:I expect there will be more of this sort of legislation, as next year's elections draw nearer and the Conservatives (and the Liberals) try to win back supporters they have lost to the UKIP...

We have a winner!!
Ministers are drawing up plans for a new crackdown on migrants’ access to benefits to try to win back disaffected voters from Ukip. The new push, which could see unemployed EU nationals kicked out of the country after just six months, was announced yesterday amid continued fallout from the Ukip surge in last week’s elections. Currently, new arrivals cannot claim benefits for the first three months in the country followed by six months in which they can


Re: The UKIP

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 6:57 pm
by Scooter
it would be interesting to look at it country by country and see if this Eurosceptic trend is broad-based or confined to a few countries. In Italy, for example, the pro-Europe Democratic Party captured over 40% of the vote, a huge leap over previous showings, while the Eurosceptic Five Star Movement and Northern League saw their support crumble. Could be that domestic political considerations overshadowed the European question (Italian premier Matteo Renzi of the Democratic Party has become quite a force to be reckoned with since he assumed office a few months ago), but there are few countries where the common currency and monetary policy have hindered recovery as much as they have in Italy, so it's strange that there would not have been more of an anti-Europe backlash reflected in the vote.

Re: The UKIP

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:55 am
by Lord Jim
Yet more impact from the UKIP:
David Cameron warns Britain risks walking out of EU if Jean-Claude Juncker takes top job

David Cameron has suggested that appointing Jean-Claude Juncker to lead the European Commission will leave Britain “drifting” towards leaving the European Union.

The Prime Minister made the warning about Mr Juncker, an arch-federalist, as Barack Obama made an impassioned plea for Britain to remain in the EU.

On the 70th anniversary of D-Day, the US president invoked the shared history of Britain and the US during the Second World War to encourage the UK to remain engaged with its European neighbours.

Mr Cameron has used a meeting of the G7 in Brussels to attempt to block Mr Juncker’s candidacy.

In a bitter, private meeting yesterday, Mr Juncker complained that only two EU leaders had called him in the past week to express allegiance, leaving him scrabbling to find support in the European Parliament. “I have heard nothing,” he said, according to leaked minutes. “I will not be forced to get on my knees before the British.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... p-job.html

And there's this:
IN THE end, there was no big upset. Despite a surge of support for their nemesis, the UK Independence Party (UKIP), the Conservatives won the Newark by-election on June 5th with ease. This was in a sense historic—the prosperous south Nottinghamshire constituency has now given the Tories their first by-election victory while in office since 1989. But it will have done little, for all that, to quell Tory nerves set jangling by UKIP’s rise.

The Tory candidate in Newark, Robert Jenrick, won with a robust majority of 7,000 votes, despite the hostile circumstances in which the election was held. It was occasioned by the resignation of his Tory predecessor, Philip Mercer, after he was accused of corruption. It also came hard after UKIP’s triumphs in local and European elections this month, on a platform of bashing mainstream politicians, chiefly at the Tories’ expense. No wonder the Tories had flooded Newark with MPs and ministers during the campaign. Each was required by their party whips to visit the constituency three times—ensuring, local wags quipped, the biggest presence of parliamentarians in Newark since the mid-17th century, when the market town at the centre of the constituency was an important battlefield in the English Civil War.

Losing Newark to UKIP would have been a disaster for the Tories. Avoiding that outcome is therefore a relief. It will add to an existing, albeit rather modest, upbeat mood in the party ranks, fuelled by more clement recent opinion polls and a sense that, despite its electoral kicking from UKIP, the Tory local and European results were less bad than many had expected. Yet Mr Jenrick’s majority is still much less than than 16,000-vote margin Mr Mercer enjoyed, and that is again chiefly UKIP’s doing.

Despite running a ramshackle campaign, in which the party’s charismatic leader Nigel Farage barely featured, the populist party came a strong second, winning over a quarter of the vote. That is not grounds to suggest, as some commentators have, that UKIP’s march is over. On the contrary, it leaves the party on course to spoil the Conservative vote in less secure Tory-held seats at next year’s general election—and perhaps pick up one or two of its own. Not least because there is no chance of the Tories replicating their mass convergence on Newark anywhere next year. Indeed, the fact that they were forced to rely on the campaigning skills of so many Tory MPs was an admission of how hollowed out the party machine has become.

Labour, the surprise under-performer in the European polls, extended its disappointing form, coming a distant third in Newark with a reduced vote-share. But the Liberal Democrats were the chief victims of this by-election. Battered and bruised in the European and local elections, the junior partner in Britain’s government suffered another conspicuous humiliation. It came sixth, behind the Greens and a local hospital campaigner, and lost its deposit.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/blighty/ ... g-election

I have a feeling those two stories may be related... 8-)

Re: The UKIP

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:07 am
by Lord Jim
In a bitter, private meeting yesterday, Mr Juncker complained that only two EU leaders had called him in the past week to express allegiance, leaving him scrabbling to find support in the European Parliament. “I have heard nothing,” he said, according to leaked minutes. “I will not be forced to get on my knees before the British.”
I suspect Mr. Farage will have a field day with that quote...

"We shall tell Mr. Juncker that Britain will no longer be forced to get on its knees before Brussels!"

That's an applause line that writes itself...

Re: The UKIP

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:08 pm
by BoSoxGal
That's a cute manatee.