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Not Often I Find Myself In 100% Complete Agreement With...

Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 6:51 pm
by Lord Jim
John Kerry:
John Kerry: Edward Snowden a ‘coward ... traitor’

Edward Snowden is a “coward,” Secretary of State John Kerry said Wednesday in response to the NSA leaker’s first television interview.

“Edward Snowden is a coward,” Kerry told Chuck Todd on MSNBC. “He is a traitor. And he has betrayed his country. And if he wants to come home tomorrow to face the music, he can do so.”

In a series of interviews on the Wednesday morning shows, Kerry addressed the interview between Snowden and NBC News anchor Brian Williams.

The nation’s top diplomat conceded to Todd that the debate about privacy and the NSA would not have “risen” to its current level without the Snowden disclosures. But he insisted the issues were important to President Barack Obama before the leaks and said the disclosures imperiled national security.

“More importantly, much more importantly, what he’s done is hurt his country,” he said. “What he’s done is expose, for terrorists, a lot of mechanisms which now affect operational security of those terrorists and make it harder for the United States to break up plots, harder to protect our nation.”

In his appearances, Kerry was harshly critical of Snowden, saying that he had fled to an authoritarian country in Russia after harming the U.S. He also challenged the NSA leaker to return to the U.S. to “make his case” to the American public.

“He should man up, come back to the United States,” the secretary said on “CBS This Morning.” “If he has a complaint about what’s wrong with American surveillance, come back here and stand in our system of justice and make his case. But instead, he’s just sitting there taking pot shots at his country, violating his oath that he took when he took on the job he took, and betraying, I think, the fundamental agreement that he entered into when he became an employee.”

On the “Today” show, Kerry also addressed Snowden’s claim, released in an excerpt from his interview with Williams, in which he said he was forced to stay in Russia because the State Department revoked his passport.

“Well, for a supposedly smart guy, that’s a pretty dumb answer, frankly,” he said.

“If Mr. Snowden wants to come back to the United States today, we’ll have him on a flight today,” Kerry added. “We’d be delighted for him to come back. And that’s what a patriot would do.”

The nation’s top diplomat has been critical of Snowden in the past, telling CNN last year: “People may die as a consequence of what this man did.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/05/e ... z332Oh8zgj

Way to go Johnny! I couldn't have said it better myself... :ok :clap: :ok :clap: :ok :clap:

Re: Not Often I Find Myself In 100% Complete Agreement With.

Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 4:31 am
by BoSoxGal
Edward Snowden is a patriot, just like Daniel Ellsberg - history will bear it out.

Snowden isn't a coward for staying in Russia; he is right to be concerned about the course of 'justice' he would face in post-9/11 America.

It certainly isn't cowardly to risk a comfortable life and everything you know, access to everyone you love, and potentially time in prison for telling the truth about egregious Constitutional violations being perpetrated by a national security program run amok.

Frontline just did a excellent two-part on the scope of the NSA spying on US citizens that is well worth watching.

Obama - that liar-in-chief who promised all of us in 2008 that he would bring transparency and integrity back to the White House on these very issues - should pardon Snowden before leaving office.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~ Ben Franklin

Re: Not Often I Find Myself In 100% Complete Agreement With.

Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 4:38 pm
by Long Run
Lawyers are often criticized (vilified even) for maintaining client secrets and otherwise doing things for unsavory clients to do the best job possible representing the client. This can often be at odds with finding the truth, arriving at a just result, and sometimes leads to society being harmed in a serious way. Yet, that is what lawyers sign on for.

How is that different than what Snowden signed on for when he went to work for an intelligence agency/contractor that deals in highly sensitive matters? Worse, who is Snowden, a low man in the decision tree, to decide which things to disclose and to whom -- to artfully determine which matters might cause the media to look at the issue of over-snooping versus revealing information that damages our foreign policy, intelligence operations and exposes brave people to possible death? The short answer is that he is a nobody who has caused serious injury and violated his oath in so doing.

And, in return (on the "plus side"), we get the typical sensationalist, ignorant media types looking at a complicated issue through their simplistic what-will-sell-today lens. Every administration does its best to balance privacy interests with intelligence issues, has a mix of people with varying views looking at these issues, along with Congressional oversight, and knowing that history will ultimately judge their decisions. Policies are constantly reviewed, and it may take time to change things, but in the end there are serious and informed people doing this delicate balancing act. And into this complex mix we have an idiotic oaf tramping through because he knows better than all of those with far more perspective on what's at stake, vastly more experience, intelligence and knowledge.

Re: Not Often I Find Myself In 100% Complete Agreement With.

Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 6:39 pm
by BoSoxGal
Lawyers are not bound to keep secrets that involve intent to commit future crimes; no attorney/client privilege exists if the lawyer was retained to facilitate the planning or commission of a future crime. Similarly, a lawyer is not bound to assist her client in committing perjury - in fact, a lawyer is duty bound not to present false testimony knowingly.

Edward Snowden has repeatedly asserted that he waited to see what Obama's administration would do; he wanted to believe that Obama would keep his promise of transparency in government.

Yes, there are some things about national security that the American public doesn't need to know in detail - but no, I'm not willing to trust public officials and private contractors working for the NSA to undermine the Constitution on a routine basis.

Ben Franklin was right.

Re: Not Often I Find Myself In 100% Complete Agreement With.

Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 6:45 pm
by Big RR
LR--I've seen the accusation many times, but what is this "serious injury" he caused--embarrassing some in government? Showing some politicians say one thing and practice another? Or do you buy Kerry's BS that his exposure of this hypocrisy somehow enabled terrorists to have a slightly elevated hand? I've yet to see one iota of proof that the disclosures harmed the US--embarrassed Kerry's boss certainly, but no real damage.

Re: Not Often I Find Myself In 100% Complete Agreement With.

Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 9:32 pm
by Long Run
The serious damage is in the theft of numerous classified documents. The only reasonable policy at that point is to assume the worst and act to protect operations and sources that may have been compromised. In other words, his theft disrupted substantial parts of intelligence operations here and with our allies, which by itself leads to greater risks of terrorism. It is pollyanna to believe that an inexperienced low-level worker like Snowden could know which documents are harmful and which are not, and beyond trusting his judgment, why would one trust the word of a known traitor and thief who is trying to save himself.

As for provable damage, you may call it "embarrassing", but most have determined that this type of disclosure seriously set back our relations with numerous countries, leading to less cooperation on joint terrorism.
Britain’s Government Communications Headquarters, working closely with the National Security Agency, monitored the communications of senior European Union officials, foreign leaders including African heads of state and sometimes their family members, directors of United Nations and other relief programs, and officials overseeing oil and finance ministries, according to the documents. In addition to Israel, some targets involved close allies like France and Germany, where tensions have already erupted over recent revelations about spying by the N.S.A.

Re: Not Often I Find Myself In 100% Complete Agreement With.

Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 9:40 pm
by Long Run
The known damage at this point is similar in nature (but much more harmful and difficult to cure) than that caused by the likes of hackers getting into Target and other store data bases. What was known is that the hackers had access to broad swaths of personal information, but it was not clear which they downloaded or would eventually use. Do you wait until everyone who could be harmed suffers losses, or do you change passwords, accounts and other identifying information immediately to prevent the possible damage that could ensue? Now, take the information that Snowden had access to, add that it is known that he stole a substantial amount of documents, and extrapolate the type of damage he could cause and all the steps that have to be taken to prevent that from happening. At a minimum, this is the damage he has caused (along with the known damage that has been reported).

Re: Not Often I Find Myself In 100% Complete Agreement With.

Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 3:50 pm
by Big RR
LR--ok, his taking of certain documents may well have forced the government to tighten up security, change passwords, etc. And for that he does have some culpability, although nowhere near the assertions of Kerry that he has betrayed his country and "people may die" because of his actions. yes, he may have compromised the security of information, but that's all I have seen shown.

And as for setting back our relations with other countries, well isn't that our actions that set back these relationships, not his. If I'm doing something of questionable legality and representing to others that I ma not doing it, should I blame the whistle blower for the damage when my duplicity comes to light, or should I blame my own actions? I clearly favor the latter, and don't blame Snowden for that. It's also damaged Obama's reputation among those who may have thought he really cared about government's intrusion into civil rights, but that's also Obama's fault for his actions, not Snowden for bringing those actions to light.

Unless and until I see some actual evidence that Snowden has released information that has actually harmed US harmed the US, I'm not going to accept the self-serving information of some administration spin doctor trying to cover the ass of the administration.

As for Snowden's fleeing to Russia, it is unfortunate that he had to do so, but I think his chance of getting a fair trial here are pretty slim. We have used fear of "terrorism" as an excuse to trample the rights of people in the US, citizens and noncitizens alike: to arrest and hold them for years without trial, to have the executed by the president on his own say so--without even the inconvenience of a formal charge or trial (let alone a death sentence being imposed in accordance with the law, to deny the accused the right to counsel, and a host of other violations. If I were accused of a similar crime, I'd flee as well--there's not even apretense of justice or due process in the US when the specter of terrorism is raised.

Re: Not Often I Find Myself In 100% Complete Agreement With.

Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 9:03 pm
by Long Run
And then there’s Snowden’s denials that he did any damage. Show me the evidence, he protests, that anyone was really hurt by anything he did—and Williams does not call him on the point. But it’s a mug’s game to acquit oneself of doing harm by simply defining all of the harms one does as goods. If one calls democratic debate and sunshine the blowing of sensitive intelligence programs in which one’s country has invested enormous resources and on which it relies for all sorts of intelligence collection, the exposure is of course harmless. If one regards as a salutary exercise the exposure of one’s country’s offensive intelligence operations and capabilities to the intelligence services of adversary nations, then of course that exposure does no harm. And if one regards the many billions of dollars American industry has lost as merely a fair tax on its sins for having cooperated with NSA, then sure, no harm there either.

Snowden is too smart to actually believe that he did no harm to the U.S. What he means, rather, is that he regards harms to U.S. intelligence interests as good things much of the time and that he reserves for himself the right to define which harms are goods and which harms are real harms.

And this brings us to Snowden’s ultimate arrogance, the thing that makes his calm certainty finally more infuriating than anything else: He believes he is above the law. He believes he should get to decide what stays secret and what does not. He believes that he should get to decide what laws he can and cannot be tried under. He believes he gets to decide what rules should govern spying. And he not only believes he should get credit for civil disobedience without being willing to face the legal consequences of his actions, he believes he should get credit for courage as though he had done so as well.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1179 ... -arrogance

Re: Not Often I Find Myself In 100% Complete Agreement With.

Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 9:08 pm
by Lord Jim
Great article Long Run; really hits the nail on the head... :ok

Re: Not Often I Find Myself In 100% Complete Agreement With.

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 8:14 pm
by Econoline
He's on a roll!
Secretary of State John Kerry late Thursday dismissed former Vice President Dick Cheney's comments knocking the Obama administration’s Afghanistan withdrawal plan.

“Any advice from him really has no meaning to me with respect to what we’re doing today,” Kerry said on PBS Newshour.

Kerry said he’s not surprised Cheney would say something “negative” and “wrong.”
“Dick Cheney was completely wrong about Iraq, and we are still struggling with the aftermath of what Dick Cheney and his crew thought was the right policy: To go in and start a war of choice for the wrong reasons. And they turned topsy-turvy the entire region with respect to Sunni and Shia and the relationships there,” Kerry said.

Re: Not Often I Find Myself In 100% Complete Agreement With.

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:42 pm
by Jarlaxle
Edward Snowden deserves a medal. The man is a hero.

John Kerry is subhuman scum.

Re: Not Often I Find Myself In 100% Complete Agreement With.

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:52 pm
by Lord Jim
Nice to see you posting again Jarl... :ok

(Even though you're more wrong about TTS then Wrongy Wrong McWrong, The Twelve Time Winner of The Mr. Wrong Contest...... 8-) )