The United Police States of America

[MajGenl.Meade]

https://www.tmz.com/2020/08/26/vigilant ... -shooting/

The video appears to show:

A group of cop wannabes cheering on the police.
The police telling them to disperse, "go south" or else
Banter about how neat the cop vehicles were
Some cop saying "We appreciate you guys" (not unreasonable to express to people who support you)
but also the continued announcement that they should not be there and must vacate
The future killer asking for water
A cop tossing one or two bottles and refusing to throw more
The armed idiots mumbling that they probably have lots of water
cut
The future killer is walking down the middle of the street
Presumably obeying the order to go home
He is walking toward what we will later see is where a lot of cops are
As he walks, someone cries out that he's got a gun.
He is chased
He is attacked
He shoots the guy who has attacked him
He shoots two others
cut
He's walking toward a large assembly of police vehicles being driven slowly toward the scene
They appear to be trying to reach the area of reported trouble
Whoever is recording this, is quite a way back from the shooter
People close to the cell-phone/camera are shouting initially about "he shot people"
Surmise: the cops in the vehicles were too far away to hear that, what with the engine noise
The shooter walks forward closer all the time to the cops with his hands raised and his weapon slung
At one point, he adjusts the way the weapon is hung around his neck and then raises his hands again
Eventually he reaches the cops and I heard a voice shouting "get out of the way"

Whatever the rights and wrongs (and there's a lot wrong. A lot), I expect him to beat the rap of first degree intentional homicide at least. He was attacked while walking away from trouble; he will argue that he was protecting himself and had a legal right to be walking about with a gun (now that IS another problem that should be rectified). I have 100 times the sympathy for those he killed and their families than I do for him, the stupid little shit. He deserves a pile of legal trouble and I hope he doesn't get away with a finger-wagging.

I'm not surprised the cops let him walk away - he didn't appear to be trouble (because he is white, huh?) and I think it absurd to believe that they could hear anyone shouting that he'd shot someone. To them, he was just another one of those cop-supporting militia dudes who never do anything but strut around; and his hands were up.

NOW, having said that. IMO if he'd been black . . . at least, they'd have had him on the ground as soon as he reached their vehicles. IMO if he'd been black . . . he probably wouldn't have got that far. He'd have been gunned down as soon as his hands went back on to the weapon. And that is systemic racism. Clearly (to me) a law enforcement decision based not upon merit but upon skin color.

All this began when one black man was shot seven time in the back because a cop thought (or didn't think it mattered) that he might have a weapon. I don't know about that one cop if that's racism or fear or panic or what the hell it is. If it had been me, maybe he'd have shot me in the same circumstances - we don't have an experimental control, do we? But it isn't right, not even a little bit.

I cannot believe that Trump will win in November and give us four more years of the death of America.

[Big RR]

I guess there's a black curfew and a white curfew? Hell, the victims wouldn't have been killed if the vigilante wasn't out after curfew; hell Kenosha would be better if the police weren't out after curfew. It's that fuzzy "logic".

They got shot because they were stupid; they were trying to take the gun away from the kid. They should have called the police.

Right, because the police are our friends and always there to help, right? Why wouldn't you have said if he was so concerned about his (or others) safety he shouldn't have strapped on a gun, but called the police? These Walter Mitty types are always a danger when armed, thinking they're Dirty Harry.

[rubato]

With god on their side.

The fascists they shot,
and the protesters died,
and the country was old then,
with god on their side.


yrs,
rubato

[liberty]

I guess there's a black curfew and a white curfew? Hell, the victims wouldn't have been killed if the vigilante wasn't out after curfew; hell Kenosha would be better if the police weren't out after curfew. It's that fuzzy "logic".

They got shot because they were stupid; they were trying to take the gun away from the kid. They should have called the police.

Right, because the police are our friends and always there to help, right? Why wouldn't you have said if he was so concerned about his (or others) safety he shouldn't have strapped on a gun, but called the police? These Walter Mitty types are always a danger when armed, thinking they're Dirty Harry.

I thought you guys were against people taking the law into their own hands. Evidently, it depends on who the vigilantes are.

[Big RR]

Defending yourself or someone else against an imminent threat and ongoing attack is hardly "taking the law into their own hands"; strapping on gun on to keep "those people" in line. I would think even you could see that.

[Jarlaxle]

Back in the real world....

Kenosha police chief blames the black victims of a white supremacist vigilante, saying they wouldn't have gotten themselves killed if they hadn't been out after curfew. Meanwhile, his police officers were seen offering water and words of encouragement to that same white supremacist vigilante and his friends.

But nah, there's no racist double standard in policing.

You are NOT this stupid, dude. Either you are regurgitating some bullshit you have been spoon-fed, or you are just lying.

This is one "black" "victim".


This child-rapist is another "black" "victim".


This dude (convicted felon in posession of a firearm) is the third "black" "victim".


So, to recap: you are so full of shit that it is bubbling out your fucking ears!

[Scooter]

Yes, I made a mistake. Changes the underlying point not at all. Why were the police coddling and encouraging armed white vigilantes in an already volatile situation?

And I see you have been chugging more than your share of koolaid yourself there, so pot, come meet kettle.

[ex-khobar Andy]

And the 'child-rapist' Jarlaxle talks about apparently, when he was 18, had sex with a 15-year-olld girl. The circumstances are obscure and he spent time in jail and was a registered sex offender.

Clever of Rittenhouse to figure all that out and execute him. Rosenbaum was, apparently, a turd - or he was, half a lifetime ago. (He was 36 when Rittenhouse killed him.)

[BoSoxGal]

And the 'child-rapist' Jarlaxle talks about apparently, when he was 18, had sex with a 15-year-olld girl. The circumstances are obscure and he spent time in jail and was a registered sex offender.

So, they were two teenagers getting frisky where the age of consent is 16 or 17 or 18 and if their parents all got along and approved of the pairing it would never even come to attention of law enforcement - but because somebody’s father got pissed off a teenager starts life as a sex offender with a record of serving some time?

That’s one scenario, anyway - one that happens all over the country far too often.

If on the other hand it was not a Romeo case, and she didn’t consent due to state of mind (intoxication) or actual forcible rape, then ok he is a rapist. But with that age disparity, “child rapist” is a real stretch.

[Jarlaxle]

Is Romeo and Juliet usually worth 11 years?

[BoSoxGal]

Is Romeo and Juliet usually worth 11 years?

You know, I might actually be curious about the facts of the case and the reasoning behind the sentencing, except I’m not.

I know this: he was convicted of a crime and served his sentence as imposed by law. There is zero justification in his being shot down in the street because he has a sex offense of some kind in his history that requires him to register - I’ve seen way too much in my career to automatically condemn someone based on those thin facts.

I’m surprised to see YOU taking this position - except I guess your skepticism about cops and the justice system goes out the window as soon as a Trump cult member guns some folks down in the street and then suddenly they’re scum if they’ve had any interaction with cops and you believe whatever you’re reading on USMessageBoard or wherever without actually seeing any official reports of his criminal history. But even if he raped a child, it doesn’t justify shooting him in the street. Sorry.

[liberty]

Is Romeo and Juliet usually worth 11 years?

You know, I might actually be curious about the facts of the case and the reasoning behind the sentencing, except I’m not.

I know this: he was convicted of a crime and served his sentence as imposed by law. There is zero justification in his being shot down in the street because he has a sex offense of some kind in his history that requires him to register - I’ve seen way too much in my career to automatically condemn someone based on those thin facts.

I’m surprised to see YOU taking this position - except I guess your skepticism about cops and the justice system goes out the window as soon as a Trump cult member guns some folks down in the street and then suddenly they’re scum if they’ve had any interaction with cops and you believe whatever you’re reading on USMessageBoard or wherever without actually seeing any official reports of his criminal history. But even if he raped a child, it doesn’t justify shooting him in the street. Sorry.

Is Romeo and Juliet usually worth 11 years?

You know, I might actually be curious about the facts of the case and the reasoning behind the sentencing, except I’m not.

I know this: he was convicted of a crime and served his sentence as imposed by law. There is zero justification in his being shot down in the street because he has a sex offense of some kind in his history that requires him to register - I’ve seen way too much in my career to automatically condemn someone based on those thin facts.

I’m surprised to see YOU taking this position - except I guess your skepticism about cops and the justice system goes out the window as soon as a Trump cult member guns some folks down in the street and then suddenly they’re scum if they’ve had any interaction with cops and you believe whatever you’re reading on USMessageBoard or wherever without actually seeing any official reports of his criminal history. But even if he raped a child, it doesn’t justify shooting him in the street. Sorry.

He was shot because he was an attacker. Don’t attack people and don’t get shot. The boy shot no one who was not trying to attack him.

I thought it was the liberal position that individuals don’t have the right to enforce the law. Remember, people don’t need guns because the police will protect them, be consistent.

[Jarlaxle]

Is Romeo and Juliet usually worth 11 years?

You know, I might actually be curious about the facts of the case and the reasoning behind the sentencing, except I’m not.

I know this: he was convicted of a crime and served his sentence as imposed by law. There is zero justification in his being shot down in the street because he has a sex offense of some kind in his history that requires him to register - I’ve seen way too much in my career to automatically condemn someone based on those thin facts.

Fortunately, he was not shot because he was a sex offender...he was shot because he was attacking someone!

I’m surprised to see YOU taking this position

My being 100% in favor of armed self-defense is not exactly a secret.

- except I guess your skepticism about cops and the justice system goes out the window as soon as a Trump cult member guns some folks down in the street and then suddenly they’re scum if they’ve had any interaction with cops and you believe whatever you’re reading on USMessageBoard or wherever without actually seeing any official reports of his criminal history.

That makes no sense whatsoever. The cops have NOTHING to do with what happened here.

But even if he raped a child, it doesn’t justify shooting him in the street. Sorry.

No, it doesn't...nor is it why he was shot.

[Big RR]

That makes no sense whatsoever. The cops have NOTHING to do with what happened here.

Come on, you don't send a guy with a lit lighter into a shack full of dynamite; and the cops shouldn't let armed vigilantes through to confront protesters unless the confrontation is what they want (and I'd bet it is).

[MajGenl.Meade]

That makes no sense whatsoever. The cops have NOTHING to do with what happened here.

Come on, you don't send a guy with a lit lighter into a shack full of dynamite; and the cops shouldn't let armed vigilantes through to confront protesters unless the confrontation is what they want (and I'd bet it is).

Then how come they were telling that group of wannabe-Rambos that they were trespassing and they should disperse?

[Econoline]

The fact that there is even one person in the world who thinks like this fills me with a profound sense of sorrow, depression, and horror.

[Big RR]

Meade--If they were trespassing why didn't they arrest, or at least disperse them, rather than giving them water and sending them on their way?

[Econoline]

This post gets it exactly right.




The only thing she leaves out is that the dude with the AR-15 is from another school...in ANOTHER STATE.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Meade--If they were trespassing why didn't they arrest, or at least disperse them, rather than giving them water and sending them on their way?

So you acknowledge the video shows exactly that: they were told not to trespass and to disperse?

Can the police arrest people for trespassing? I thought it was a civil offense (or is that just here?).

They did disperse - that's why super-dude killer-klown was walking about by himself. Regardless of whether in that parking lot he shot first or was attacked, he was alone - if his gun-toting buddies had been there in a group, things may have been worse.

And that's a Trump-spin you and others have: that "they" gave them water. You make way too much of one cop tossing a bottle or two of water to them while all the other cops didn't. Make it sound like a water-station at a marathon race.

[Big RR]

Meade--the video shows what it shows; draw your own conclusions. But guys marching (or walking) around with firearms in the area of some sort of a disturbance (or likely disturbance) is not a good idea and the police could (and should) have done more other than just saying "dIsperse"; why they didn't is anyone's guess (and I have my own), but armed vigilantes are always a concern.

The water? It's some sort of a show of support of the vigilantes on behalf of the police (or at least one or more of them); one doesn't go up to someone who is a likely menace and say "here, refresh yourself" (let alone, "we appreciate your support").

As for trespassing, I can't say in all jurisdictions, but in at least the ones I am aware of, it is at least a misdemeanor, as is disturbing the peace; they could have been arrested or forcibly removed and kept away from the others. The police clearly could have done far more to defuse the situation than they did; you can draw your own conclusions as to why they did not.