Don't ask, Don't tell, don't vote on it

[Gob]

US senators have rejected attempts to open a debate on a bill which included a provision allowing the repeal of the ban on openly gay military personnel.
US Senate blocks debate on gay military policy repeal Under current policy, gay people are expelled from the military if they reveal their sexual orientation

Just 56 senators voted in favour of debating the defence authorisation bill, four short of the 60 required.

Gay people can serve in the military, but face expulsion if they reveal their sexuality. US President Barack Obama has promised to scrap the policy.

Democrats could still try again later this year to pass the legislation.

Reacting to the vote - which split largely along Republican-Democrat party lines - White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said: "We're disappointed at not being able to proceed on the legislation, but we'll keep trying."

The BBC's Paul Adams, in Washington, says the vote is a setback for Mr Obama, who had hoped to deliver on a campaign promise to repeal the law - known as "don't ask, don't tell".

The Pentagon is conducting a study into how repeal might be implemented, but Republicans, and many in the military, fear that it could damage morale at a time when the armed forces are fighting two wars, our correspondent adds.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11383753

[Daisy]

Dear US Senate

I am writing to inform you that is is now the 21st Century.

That is all

Daisy

[Sue U]

Dear US Senate

I am writing to inform you that is is now the 21st Century.

That is all

Daisy

Ha!

[dales]

Ask the men and women in uniform, as it effects them.

Glad this was blocked....HUZZAH!

[Sue U]

If you had asked the "men in uniform" in 1945 whether they wanted black troops integrated into the armed forces, the answer would have been a resounding "No fucking way." God bless Harry S Truman.

[Big RR]

Yep, and if you asked those in uniform (the cadet corps) in the 70s whether women should be admitted to West Point (or any other service academy) you'd get that same answer. But they have been there for decades without much problem. Of course, if you asked those really affected by the exclusionary policies (blacks, women, or gays) you'd get the opposite answer, so maybe your suggestion is not wrong--you just made the wrong assumption re who was affected.

Sometimes one has to eschew prejudice and do what is right--unfortunately such is not the time in the Senate.

[dales]

Patience is a virtue.

This could be THE ISSUE (besides the stinking economy) in 2012.

[loCAtek]

Ha! Most of the time, the troops know who's gay.

There are the homophobs who will be uncomfortable because, "What he comes on to me?" and I say, "Welcome to my world."

[Sue U]

Patience is a virtue.

An insipid platitude most frequently directed at those who have been denied justice for far too long.

[dales]

uh-huh <shrugs>

[Scooter]

Ask the men and women in uniform, as it effects them.

Glad this was blocked....HUZZAH!

The data also indicate that military attitudes about homosexuality have shifted. In the early 1990's, many senior officers argued that U.S. troops could not form bonds of trust with gays and lesbians, according to Dr. Aaron Belkin, Director of the Palm Center, who has written widely on the subject. According to the new Zogby data, however, nearly three in four troops (73%) say they are personally comfortable in the presence of gays and lesbians.

link

What was that dales, I can't understand you when your foot is lodged so deeply in your mouth.

[@meric@nwom@n]

You would think having bi-racial kids would have led to more sensitivity in these matters.

[Guinevere]

Yep, and if you asked those in uniform (the cadet corps) in the 70s whether women should be admitted to West Point (or any other service academy) you'd get that same answer. But they have been there for decades without much problem. Of course, if you asked those really affected by the exclusionary policies (blacks, women, or gays) you'd get the opposite answer, so maybe your suggestion is not wrong--you just made the wrong assumption re who was affected.

Sometimes one has to eschew prejudice and do what is right--unfortunately such is not the time in the Senate.

We have a bingo. What a disappointment they chickened out.

[dales]

Ask the men and women in uniform, as it effects them.

Glad this was blocked....HUZZAH!

The data also indicate that military attitudes about homosexuality have shifted. In the early 1990's, many senior officers argued that U.S. troops could not form bonds of trust with gays and lesbians, according to Dr. Aaron Belkin, Director of the Palm Center, who has written widely on the subject. According to the new Zogby data, however, nearly three in four troops (73%) say they are personally comfortable in the presence of gays and lesbians.

link

What was that dales, I can't understand you when your foot is lodged so deeply in your mouth.

If the troops REALLY ARE COMFORTABLE with the LGBTI brigade, then I say so what?

[dales]

You would think having bi-racial kids would have led to more sensitivity in these matters.

I might rethink my position vis-a-vis Scooters data. from Zogby.

Both my daughters are polar opposites on social issues.

[Lord Jim]

I don't really see why one would expect that an African American or a Latino would be more sympathetic to gay rights issues....

Both groups voted in large percentages for the California amendment banning gay marriage, and I've never seen any polling to suggest that either group is more sympathetic on gay rights issues that whites....

On the contrary....

I know that the advocates on these issue always want to make an analogy to racial civil rights but the available evidence suggests that the members of these groups don't see it that way...

As a matter of fact, in the case of the California Amendment, the evidence suggests that the effort to make an analogy to the 60's civil rights movement turned off a lot of black voters and that many of them found it offensive.

[Scooter]

Both groups voted in large percentages for the California amendment banning gay marriage

That actually turned out not to be the case. Some faulty analysis of exit polling data said that something like 70% of African-Americans voted for Prop 8, and a few irresponsible talking heads decided to run with it and make all sorts of ridiculous claims as a result. As it turned out, African-Americans were no more likely to vote yes than whites, and when adjusted for church attendance, were actually less likely to have voted yes.

[rubato]

Many groups have been discriminated against and then found it possible to discriminate against others in turn. I never saw any effort by the Irish or Italians to help Jews or Blacks when they were the victims.

Saying "its not like civil rights for blacks because blacks hate fags too" is simply stupid.

yrs,
rubato

[Econoline]

Many groups have been discriminated against and then found it possible to discriminate against others in turn. I never saw any effort by the Irish or Italians to help Jews or Blacks when they were the victims.

OTOH, there was quite a bit of Jewish support for the Civil Rights movement during the '50s and '60s.

[Gob]

Progress?

A US judge has declared a nationwide halt to enforcement of the country's ban on openly gay military personnel.

In California, US District Judge Virginia Phillips ruled the "don't ask, don't tell" policy unconstitutional.

Under the policy, gay people can serve in the military but face expulsion if they reveal their sexuality.

President Barack Obama and some military leaders have called for it to be overturned. A legislative attempt to do so failed in the Senate last month.

Last month the ban was also ruled unconstitutional by a federal court in Washington state.

Under the policy, established in 1993 under former President Bill Clinton, the US military is forbidden to inquire about service members' sexual orientation, but can expel people discovered to be homosexual.

The lawsuit was brought by the Log Cabin Republicans, a pro-gay Republican group, on behalf of openly gay military personnel who had been discharged under the policy.

Overturning the ban, Judge Phillips cited Mr Obama's contention that it weakened national security by forcing qualified military personnel to "live a lie" or have their careers compromised.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11528661