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What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:43 am
by Econoline
Here are a couple of articles dealing with that question. (I'm hoping that Meade will weigh in on this, since he's the only one I know of here who has actually, personally immigrated to the U.S. from another country.)

This first is by Julia Ioffe, who came to the U.S. in 1990 as a Russian-Jewish refugee, as did most of her extended family of some 60 individuals during the 1970s, -80s, and -90s. It's a pretty long article--probably too long to copy-and-paste in its entirety--so here are a link and a few excerpts:
[...]
This year, in part because of my grandfather’s acutely felt absence and in part because the immigration debate rages on, I consider how my family got to these shores ourselves.

Back in the 1970s, when the Soviet Union was just starting to let out its persecuted Jewish minority and the United States was starting to accept them, my father’s cousin’s cousin arrived in Maryland. Then, in 1988, when the Soviet Union coughed up its next batch of Jews, that cousin brought over her cousin, just as my parents were applying for refugee status back in Moscow. The cousin happened to be my father’s cousin, and once she got to Maryland, she became my family’s guarantor as well as the guarantor of some other relatives. We arrived, pale and dazzled, on April 28, 1990, and also settled in Maryland. Then my father wrote to our local congressman, Ben Cardin, and asked to be reunited with my father's older sister, her husband, their two kids, and my father’s retired parents. Then my father pulled over his aunt and her son, Boris. By this point, the Soviet Union had collapsed, and all the dozen relatives my father’s cousin had been a guarantor for pulled over their own families, and they pulled in their own. By the middle of the 1990s, some 60 people who were of some blood or marital relationship to me lived within a 15-mile radius of the house my parents bought, with their cherry-red Toyota Corolla (bought new!) parked out front.

These days, when I hear the conservative mantra that people ought to come to America legally and follow the law and get in line, I wonder what, exactly, they’re talking about. My family—by that I mean, the dozens listed above—all came here legally, but we weren’t exactly part of the immigration system nor did we follow any law on the books. We were refugees, and refugees are usually counted outside the elaborate visa system that everyone agrees is broken. In fact, usually they’re let in by presidential diktat.
[...]
Yes, we are a nation of immigrants, but we all got here differently. Even if we came here legally, the very definition of what that means has varied dramatically over the 200-plus years of America’s history. And quite often, it was presidential executive action that pushed it this way and that.

Our immigration law has never been a constant. For the first century of the United States’ existence, immigration was totally unregulated. The only thing that was regulated was naturalization. According to the American Naturalization Act of 1790, only free white men could become American citizens. Otherwise, it was pretty much a free for all—unless you were Chinese. Chinese were totally barred from immigrating to the U.S. under the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882.

It is often pointed out in liberal circles that many of the very whites who are crying out against Hispanic immigration were themselves descended from the Irish and German immigrants who faced widespread discrimination in the young United States. What isn’t noted, however, is the fact that they did not come here legally, at least not in the sense that they invoke when they rail against, say, the Hondurans. The ancestors of Bill O’Reilly and his ilk, setting sail in the 19th century from Ireland, England, Germany, France, Italy, Poland, et cetera, simply got on a ship and went to America. And in America they just got off. They did not go to American consulates in Dublin and Palermo to apply for H1B visas because H1B visas didn’t exist. Nor did any kind of visas, or passports for that matter. In fact, some of these countries—Italy, Germany, Poland—didn’t exist. When the United States did introduce restrictions for health and literacy, it was the responsibility of the shipping company to check their passengers’ papers—that is, it was the shipping company that had to transport a rejected immigrant back home, on the company’s dime.

Immigration began to be regulated in the late 19th century—starting with the exclusion of the Chinese—and ever since then, immigration policy has reflected America’s foreign policy far more than it did anything domestic.
[...]

This next, by Christopher Flavelle, focuses more specifically on the current wave of immigrants from Mexico and Central America, and on current immigration law and policy:
[...]
Republicans are blasting President Barack Obama ahead of his executive order on immigration for his granting residency status to those who jump the line of the legal process. Here's the problem with that narrative: That line doesn't really exist for most of those affected by the order.

A Mexican worker with no family in the U.S. and no special skills has just a sliver of a chance of getting permanent residence through the proper channels. For him, the alternative to living here illegally was probably not living here at all. That changes the calculation around judging those immigrants and what they deserve.

Look at the numbers. On its face, immigrating to the U.S. can't be that hard; last year 990,553 people got green cards (becoming "lawful permanent residents," in the official terminology). But fully two-thirds of those were sponsored by family members already in the country legally. For people who don't have family here, that effectively leaves three options.

The first is to get permanent resident through their jobs, which is how 161,110 people got green cards last year. But almost all of them were either highly skilled or wealthy: The largest category was professionals with advanced degrees, followed by "priority workers" (including "aliens with extraordinary abilities, outstanding professors and researchers, and certain multinational executives") and investors (with at least $500,000 to spend).

There's also a catchall category, called "skilled workers, professionals and unskilled workers," which accounted for just 4.4 percent of green-card recipients last year, or 43,632 people. The figures for 2013 don't say how many of those people fell into the unskilled-worker category.

The second option is to seek asylum or refugee status, which is how 119,630 people got green cards last year. But most of the 11.2 million people now living in the U.S. illegally came for a job, not to escape persecution, and so couldn't have applied under that category; in 2012, for example, 70 percent of arriving refugees were from Myanmar, Bhutan or Iraq.

Finally, somebody hoping to get permanent residence legally can apply for the Diversity Program, also known as the green-card lottery. That program is capped at 50,000, and only open to people from countries with fewer than 50,000 green-card recipients over the previous five years. That excludes people from Mexico, Guatemala, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Colombia and Ecuador, to name just a few.

So say you're a Mexican citizen with no special skills, no money for an investor's visa and no relatives living legally in the U.S. You can't apply for the green-card lottery, and you have no grounds for asylum. Your only hope to move to the U.S. is to be one of the few thousand unskilled workers who squeak in each year -- or to enter illegally.

One answer to all of this is, so what? The majority of people living in the U.S. illegally aren't refugees; the U.S. has no international obligation to accept them. Why should this country have to help people looking for a better life?

But that's not the argument that opponents of immigration reform have been making. Yes, people living here without authorization are breaking the law. Pretending that they had a viable legal alternative just makes it easier to demonize them, by viewing those immigrants as wrongly taking something that might have been theirs had they only followed the rules. The annual green-card figures show that for most of the people affected by Obama's order, that probably wasn't the case.
(My emphasis.)

And look! That last article has a nice chart! (Or is it a graph?)Image

Any thoughts? Comments? Arguments?

Anybody?

Re: What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:23 pm
by wesw
sorry, red writing.....

Re: What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:47 pm
by MajGenl.Meade
The actual definition of "legal" has historically had many forms. The first article uses billions of words to point that out and confirms that everyone it names followed what was the law at the time. It speaks of "sponsors" and of "applying for refugee status". What are those actions if not the legally required actions for legally entering the United States?

I too took the required actions (1977) to legally enter the United States and work here. The basis on which the "green card" (actually more blue than green) was issued was twofold. Primus, an investigation determined that I was legally married to a U.S. citizen not for the purpose of obtaining a visa and we had a child together (he thus being a USian by right of parentage). Secundus, my father-in-law sponsored me - meaning he guaranteed that I wouldn't be a financial burden on the state.

Be it noted that while "legal immigrant" may be a usable term, to the government I was a "registered alien" and the green card is an Alien Registration Card or ARC.
Pretending that they had a viable legal alternative just makes it easier to demonize them, by viewing those immigrants as wrongly taking something that might have been theirs had they only followed the rules...
.

The second article of course demonizes (and falsely states) a conservative view which happens to be held by many non-conservatives also. I could not care less about "viable legal alternatives". The viable legal alternative for someone who feels like crossing the border to get a job but has no qualifying standing to be legally admitted is to stay the heck home in their own frigging country. That's legal. That's viable.

They are not "wrongly taking something that might have been theirs had they only followed the rules. They are (quite simply) "wrongly taking something".

The writer of this article makes an argument that could be applied to any activity. How about a homegrown chap who is unable to get a job for good reasons - is he permitted to steal and rob because he had "no viable legal alternative" to obtain their desire?. No job available? Can't earn money at all? Well by golly, there's just no possibility of not stealing is there?

Maybe some men are so ugly and disgusting they have no viable legal alternative to rape if they want to enjoy sex! (And don't start on about moral equivalence between illegal immigrants, thieves and rapists - that's not at all the point and anyone who doesn't see that is a fool - or a liar).

Golly, this is an old argument that Karl Marx would have recognized with a smile. The proletariat has no viable legal alternative to seize control of the means of production other than to engage in the viable but illegal revolution.

I don't give a monkey's left bollock how many people must (poor dears) live in their own country, which by the way has similar laws restricting immigration. Send 'em all home and their little children.

Re: What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:48 pm
by MajGenl.Meade
wesw wrote:sorry, red writing.....
Isn't that what we're supposed to do? :nana

Re: What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:53 pm
by wesw
you dirty double poster!!!!

I wouldn t go as far meade (I only really read his last paragraph anyway), but, if all the Hondurans that are here did go home, I believe they would have enough money and influence to make a big difference at home. I firmly believe that one of the reasons that the Honduran youth has gone wild is the absence of their fathers, who are here working

Re: What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:33 pm
by Lord Jim
I don't have time now to address everything in the OP in the detail that Meade did, (of course nobody has his kind of free time... :P ) but a couple of quick points...
What isn’t noted, however, is the fact that they did not come here legally
That's just simply false. The author engages in a lot of sophistry to try to justify that assertion, but the fact that the legal procedures were looser then, (due primarily to the country's manpower requirements brought about by The Industrial Revolution) doesn't change the fact that the people in the immigration waves he refers to were allowed in legally.

Second re, this "chart":

Image

The first thing that leaps out at me is the way the content of the data presented falsifies the claim made in the title (Did rube design this one?)

The title says:

"No Relatives or Special Skills? Good Luck Getting In"

It's true that the largest category by far is "Sponsored by family" , however the very next largest category is "Refugee/ Asylum"...

In fact just eyeballing it, "Refugee/asylum" looks roughly equal to "Workers with advanced degrees", "Professionals, skilled/ unskilled" (BTW, exactly what "special skills" does a person who is "unskilled" have?) and "priority workers" combined....

This renders the clear insinuation in the title, (that unless you have relatives here or possess special skills that you're basically SOL if you want to stay in this country legally) blatantly false...

Did the guy who put this together think nobody would bother to actually look at the chart? Or is he so stupid that he couldn't properly interpret what was sitting right in front of his eyes? Or did he figure that the people who did look at it would be so stupid that they couldn't properly interpret what was sitting right in front of their eyes?

(You can understand why I would wonder if rube might have designed this...)

Re: What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:29 pm
by Sue U
Lord Jim wrote:I don't have time now to address everything in the OP in the detail that Meade did, (of course nobody has his kind of free time... :P )
Have you met Gob?




(BTW, I don't have time to respond at length here, either, but my views are -- well, my views.)

Re: What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:36 pm
by MajGenl.Meade
Gob will have a lot less free time when he retires...

Re: What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:25 pm
by Gob
I intend sleeping more when I retire, that'll pass some time.

I married an Aussie, that made it easy to emigrate here. I did go through the process of becoming a citizen though.

Re: What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:57 pm
by MajGenl.Meade
That citizenship test in full:

Image

Re: What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:01 am
by rubato
A legal immigrant is someone who came here before they changed the rules.


yrs,
rubato

Re: What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:31 am
by Lord Jim

Re: What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:11 am
by Lord Jim
A legal immigrant is someone who came here before they changed the rules.
Rube, you keep spouting that sort of silly non sequitur nonsense, and you're going to make me want to chunder...

Re: What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:03 am
by Lord Jim
I intend sleeping more when I retire, that'll pass some time.
I can understand that view, but in point of fact, death is not all it's cracked up to be...

Personally I don't see the merit in it...

I've decided to take a pass on it...

If anyone wants to die, I certainly wont stand in their way, (to each his own) but it just doesn't work for me....

I've decide to "just say no" to death...(damn nuisance, not worth my time...)

Therefore, I have decided that I will not die...(It seems like a rather unattractive prospect any way you cut it...you either wind up in the flames of Hell or playing a Harp in some insipid self-righteous environment...don't see the logic behind it...)

Just not going to do it...(much like bungee jumping and French kissing Bernie Sanders; didn't make my list...)

ETA:

I apologize for that digression... 8-)

Re: What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:14 am
by Econoline
Emma Lazarus wrote:
Image
MajGenl.Meade wrote:
. . . .STAY THE HECK HOME IN THEIR OWN FRIGGING COUNTRY. . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . .THAT'S LEGAL. THAT'S VIABLE. . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..
. . . . . .SEND 'EM ALL HOME AND THEIR LITTLE CHILDREN.[/color]. .
Well, your version would definitely take fewer words (thus making it much easier and less time-consuming to read), and less space, and less bronze.

I can't imagine why no one thought, during the renovations of La Liberté in 1984-6 or 2011-2, to replace the old Emma Lazarus plaque with one containing words more like yours. :shrug

Re: What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:34 am
by Lord Jim
Econo, I have a question...

Do you ever grow tired of being so hopelessly wet? 8-)

(I'm sorry, that was rude... 8-) )

Re: What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:35 am
by Lord Jim
In any event, I have given up on the whole idea of "dying"...

It doesn't work for me...it's just not on.... 8-)

Re: What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:16 pm
by wesw
so, we should base our policy on a sonnet and a statue?

Re: What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:49 pm
by Lord Jim

Re: What’s A “Legal Immigrant”, Anyway?

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:09 pm
by MajGenl.Meade
Econo, no need. A simple FTFY on the original poem would be just as good:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;


Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome
; her mild eyes command:

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me
your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the home less, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
"

:nana