CUBAN RELATIONS

[RayThom]

Damn, there goes Gitmo.

The terrorists have won.

[MajGenl.Meade]

...and not before time!

U.S. contractor Alan Gross, held by the Cuban government since 2009, was freed Wednesday as part of a landmark deal with Cuba that paves the way for a major overhaul in U.S. policy toward the island, senior administration officials tell CNN.

President Barack Obama spoke with Cuban President Raul Castro Tuesday in a phone call that lasted about an hour and reflected the first communication at the presidential level with Cuba since the Cuban revolution, according to White House officials. Obama announced Gross' release and the new diplomatic stance at noon in Washington. At around the same time, Cuban president Raul Castro was set to speak in Havana.

President Obama announced a major loosening of travel and economic restrictions on the country. And the two nations are set to re-open embassies, with preliminary discussions on that next step in normalizing diplomatic relations beginning in the coming weeks, a senior administration official tells CNN.

Talks between the U.S. and Cuba have been ongoing since June of 2013 and were facilitated by the Canadians and the Vatican in brokering the deal. Pope Francis -- the first pope from Latin America -- encouraged Obama in a letter and in their meeting this year to renew talks with Cuba on pursuing a closer relationship.

Gross' "humanitarian" release by Cuba was accompanied by a separate spy swap, the officials said. Cuba also freed a U.S. intelligence source who has been jailed in Cuba for more than 20 years, although authorities did not identify that person for security reasons. The U.S. released three Cuban intelligence agents convicted of espionage in 2001.

The developments constitute what officials called the most sweeping change in U.S. policy toward Cuba since 1961, when the embassy closed and the embargo was imposed.

Officials described the planned actions as the most forceful changes the president could make without legislation passing through Congress

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http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/17/politics/ ... ross-deal/
Let's hope Congress has the guts to do what's right - end the embargoes.

[liberty]

Cuba killed Kennedy in 1963 and defeated the USA 2014.

[MajGenl.Meade]

At last, the US can stop living in fear of the mouse that roared! Has it really taken all this long to realize that the true weapons of imperialist conquest are McDonalds and Coca-Cola?

[rubato]

Long long overdue. There was little reason for our policies before then and no rational reason for them after the Soviet Union ceased to exist.

We have better relations with China and Russia than Cuba? Crazy.

Increased trade, travel, and cultural exchanges are only in our interest.


yrs,
rubato

[BoSoxGal]

I can't wait to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RayThom]

... have been vacationing in Cuba for years. None of them have returned home as Che Guevara loving, pinko, commies nor double agents for the Castro regime. Fidel's brainwashing techniques have obviously failed miserably on them.

Let give a round of applause for Obama's well planned use of executive action to lift the embargo.

Yay! Cohibas for everyone.

[MajGenl.Meade]

[Big RR]

While I support the lifting of the embargo by executive action (since it was set in place by the same years ago) I do have a question--can the president establish diplomatic relations unilaterally or will it have to be approved by congress? My understanding is that diplomatic relations are established by treaty, and the constitution requires congressional approval of all treaties, but maybe there is something else here.

I support establishing diplomatic relations if only because this government has been in power longer than the governments of many other countries we recognize; isolation hasn't worked to effect a change, maybe trade relations will (as they appear to be working in china). And at least I can get my Cuban cigars legally then.

One thing that will be interesting is in the area of trademarks; after the embargo, the Cuban trademarks for their products (notably rum and cigars) were awarded to other (usually US) companies--what will happen now is anyone's guess. Will we have two Bacardi rums or Romeo and Julieta cigars on the shelves?

[Lord Jim]

It's the opposite; he can establish diplomatic relations (technically), but he can't lift the embargo; that requires legislation:

That talk, however, may be premature. Overturning the embargo requires, among many things, congressional legislation and approval, which as history proves can be extraordinarily thorny. As Peter Baker notes, the deal struck to release Gross, which Cuba claims was done on "humanitarian grounds," has already engendered criticism, even from within the president's own party.

http://www.theatlantic.com/internationa ... cy/383834/

However, establishing diplomatic relations isn't going to mean much if he can't get an Ambassador confirmed, or funds authorized to establish an embassy...

There's a very good chance Obama is going to get neither, (a number of Democrats will be joining the Republicans in blocking both) and wind up embarrassing himself and making himself look weak and ineffectual. Just like he did when he signed the order to close Gitmo without having built any political support for it, and wound up having the funding for it shot down on The Hill, (even when his party controlled both houses)

That's actually a really good analogy. Because like the attempt to close Gitmo, there's no great clamoring in the country for normalizing realtions with Castro's Cuba, no national consensus for it, and Obama did absolutely nothing to build an signficant support for it on The Hill. And unlike his other high-handed fight picking move, on immigration, there's no significant constituency for it. (In fact what constituency there is, Cuban Americans, will overwhelmingly oppose it.)

The fight on immigration reform is damaging politically to the GOP, so it makes taking substantive action against what Obama has done unilaterally problematic. This one on the other hand is politically easy to oppose him on, and block him at every turn. He has essentially handed the Congressional Republicans (and any Democrat who wants to distance themselves from him; and there'll be a number of those) a huge gift...

So at the end of the day, here's what we have from yesterday's events:

1.An exchange of three spies for one innocent guy and one spy. (I don't really have a huge problem with that aspect of it; it certainly a far better deal than the one where he returned five senior al-Qaeda terrorists to the battlefield in exchange for a guy who went AWOL)

2."Diplomatic relations" with no embassy and no ambassador.

3.Any chance that there could be legislation passed for even the slightest easing of the embargo on Cuba completely destroyed for the foreseeable future.

That's what Mr. Obama accomplished yesterday.

If he honestly believes that he's going to be able to strong-arm Congress into lifting the embargo with the unilateral stunt he pulled yesterday, then I have to say that it's truly sad (and troubling) that he could be that delusional after nearly six years in office. His action will have exactly the opposite effect, and the political cost to those who oppose him on this will be nil. In fact those who oppose him on this (Republicans and Democrats) are likely to benefit from it politically.

Of course it would be difficult to know these realities if all you had to judge by was the shameless gushing over this by the liberal media yesterday...

[Big RR]

Jim--if establishing relations doesn't require congressional approval, then I am presuming that the treaty which originally established them has never been rescinded, only suspended.

yes he will need funds to establish an embassy, but I do think we do have an interest section in cuba, and that could become the de facto embassy without any further funding; likewise, I would think he could appoint an acting ambassador by executive order until congress approves one.

As for the embargo, I am unsure if congressional action is needed in light of the executive powers in the area of international trade. I understand what your link said, but the executive has pretty sweeping powers in trade as part of its foreign policy powers, so I am unsure.

So it remains to be seen what he is really accomplishing, and if there is even a slight leaning in the public to normalizing relations (which there may be, I think most people don't really care), he might be pushing the republicans into a corner where they will appear obstructionist (which might be what he wants). Of course, with 2 years left and not all that much to show for the past 6, maybe he's trying to polish his image the way Nixon did with China. Of course, ultimately it will come down to how well he promotes this agenda, and he has proven to be pretty bad at such promotion in the past.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Officials described the planned actions as the most forceful changes the president could make without legislation passing through Congress

Let's hope Congress has the guts to do what's right - end the embargoes.[/quote]

It's sad when one's habitual brilliance is overlooked

[Big RR]

Well, I agree with you on the penultimate sentence.

The last one? I'll refrain from comment.

[Big RR]

One thing that would be interesting--Joanne Chesimard (I believe her African name is Asata Shakur) was granted asylum in cuba after she received a life sentence for murder of a police officer. Not sure what will happen when more formal relations are established, but this could be a selling point of Obama for the law and order types and police unions.

[liberty]

At last, the US can stop living in fear of the mouse that roared! Has it really taken all this long to realize that the true weapons of imperialist conquest are McDonalds and Coca-Cola?

Love you General but I disagree: How well has it worked with China; we made a weaker enemy into a stronger enemy? Coca Cola is poor weapon; it can’t change a dictator into a democrat. Would it not be better to keep our enemy weak? The tyrant and the free are just natural enemies, no hamburger can change that.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Weapons are wielded by people, Lib. The USA has for too long been bound into its cold war methods of confrontation rather than subversion and co-option. Capitalism (no matter how the PRC may try to disguise it) is the weapon that subverts entire cultures and peoples. By themselves, McD and Coke are merely profit making corporations. The strategy is popular engagement (leading edge) with the purpose of dangling the larger benefits of capitalism (and oh, by the way, democracy in some form or another) in front of a hungry population's faces.

Isolation has been perfected against and by North Korea - thus far with spectacularly dismal results. China too was once "contained" ha ha. It is no coincidence that the proximity of Hong Kong/Macau and the increasing availability of western tech in the PRC leads to citizen unrest and protest against authoritarian forces. The PRC is the coming power (get used to it) and the USA had best dangle all its goodies in Africa or we'll not wait long before seeing the Great Haul of China paraded under our noses.

Besides, our enemy is radical Islam, not China. Not Cuba. The latter especially positively wants to look north (maybe not the government but the people) and we need to prove Mao wrong - change does not come from the barrel of a gun but from generosity, neighbourliness and subversive use of the tools of capitalism

[liberty]

Reagan was right, the only thing communist respect is force. We should resist them not submit to them; they don’t see the normalization of relations as cooperation, but as a case of us submitting to their will.

They think of us a criminals for not giving what they want. To communist noncommunist nations have no rights. Should we pay Cuba reparation for maintaining a boycott, to them it is a criminal act?.

[MajGenl.Meade]

No, we should subvert their "revolution" and privatize it. The Iron Curtain fell due to internal pressures - nothing to do with Reagan. Can you imagine being East German and living next door to the West Germans? Those Soviet satellites wanted what we have - depriving them of things didn't work. Flaunting it does.

[liberty]

The communist government of Cuba is our enemy and nothing going to change that. The communist of North Korea has threaten to kill Americans if a certain a certain movie is released. There is no real difference between the communist of Korea and Cuba. The Koreans threaten to kill Americans and the Cubans have. Remember President Kennedy?

On the positive side general, I don’t think you are a communist. Your are a good Christian and unfortunately a little bit of a liberal. Liberal don’t understand you can’t buy friends.

[Econoline]

The current policy has had the effect of keeping the Castro brothers and the communists in power for 60 years; how could trying a different approach have any worse effect than that?