Plan B Forum

We have a couple of threads going now where the debate seems to be between some folks saying that many millions of Muslims sympathize with the Islamist terrorists, while others reply that the vast majority of Muslims do not...

The available data suggests that this is a false choice; both are right...

In this OP, I'm going to post links to several studies done on Muslim attitudes towards the Islamo Fascists...

First, this is from a Pew Poll done a little over a year ago, measuring attitudes among Muslims in 11 Muslim countries. There's a lot more data to look at if you follow the link, but here's one set of statistics on support for Al Qaeda (since this was done before ISIS became a big deal, they don't have numbers for their support):



So yes, the majority, (though I'd question whether 57% can be called "vast") have an "unfavorable" view of what was the premier Islamic terrorist network at the time the poll was taken...

But 13% have a favorable view; and with 1.6 billion Muslims total 13% works out to more than 200 million...

That's a helluva lot of folks....it certainly isn't a "tiny" or insignificant number...

And here's something on the attitude of European Muslims:

In a 2007 Pew Research poll in response to a question on whether suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets to defend Islam could be justified,[27] in Europe:

64% of Muslims in France believed it could never be justified, 19% believed it could be justified rarely, 10% sometimes, and 6% thought it could be justified often.
70% of Muslims in Britain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 12% sometimes, and 3% thought it could be justified often.
83% of Muslims in Germany believed it could never be justified, 6% believed it could be justified rarely, 6% sometimes, and 1% thought it could be justified often.
69% of Muslims in Spain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 10 % sometimes, and 6% thought it could be justified often.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_att ... _terrorism

Again, significant majorities saying that terrorism against civilians is never justified...

But substantial minorities saying that there are circumstances where it could be justified...

And now some info on the US. The picture is a little better, because as the article points out:

Compared with their co-religionists in other Western societies, they are relatively well integrated into mainstream society. Unlike Western Europe’s Muslim populations, Muslims in the U.S. are generally as well-educated and financially well-off as the general population. Most (72%) say their communities are good or excellent places to live, and most believe in the American dream — 71% say that in the U.S., most people who want to get ahead can make it if they are willing to work hard.....

Very few Muslim Americans hold a positive opinion of al Qaeda — only 5% give the terrorist organization a favorable rating, while 68% express an unfavorable view, including 58% who describe their view as very unfavorable. About one-quarter (27%) decline to offer an opinion.

http://www.pewforum.org/2009/12/17/litt ... americans/

And finally an interesting survey of French attitudes towards ISIS, in a poll that was taken last summer. (Obviously before the most recent attacks:

One in six French citizens sympathises with the Islamist militant group ISIS, also known as Islamic State, a poll released this week found.

The poll of European attitudes towards the group, carried out by ICM for Russian news agency Rossiya Segodnya, revealed that 16% of French citizens have a positive opinion of ISIS. This percentage increases among younger respondents, spiking at 27% for those aged 18-24.

A recent Ifop poll placed French president Francois Hollande’s approval rating at just 18%.

http://www.newsweek.com/16-french-citiz ... nds-266795

Muslim attitudes about making Sharia Law the law in their countries are pretty depressing:







http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the- ... ut-sharia/

(Say what you you want about oppression of women in Western societies, you're sure as hell not going to find 25% or more of Christians favoring stoning for adultery...)

Keeping in mind that Islam is a minority religion in many of those countries. Ethiopia is about 34% Muslim, for example.

yrs,
rubato

334%? God, that's terrifyingly huge!

I'm sure you could find a lot of Americans in favor of getting stoned and then committing adultery...

I notice Saudi Arabia was not included....

We also can't take a lot of comfort from the fact that Europe has a bigger problem with support for Islamic extremism than we do...

It's true that there are only around 100 American nationals that have so far gone to the Mid-East or North Africa to train and fight with the Jihadists, while the number for Europe is several thousand. But we have reciprocal agreements with 30 European countries that allows people with their passports to travel to the US without having to get a visa; which makes those people nearly as much of a potential problem for us as they are for their own countries.

On the other hand, one of the big benefits we've had from having the US Muslim population far more assimilated into the larger society is that there have been many occasions where potential Islamic terror plots have been thwarted here because of tips to law enforcement coming from within the Muslim community.

I doubt you have anywhere near that degree of help from Muslim communities in most European countries.

I read jihadists as shitheads when I first glanced at this thread. Seemed oddly fitting.

MajGenl.Meade wrote:334%? God, that's terrifyingly huge!

Put on your glasses. Or wait to sober up and the double vision will disappear.


yrs,
rubato

Yeah - bit of type-stutter there. I love the screen being on the big flat TV across the room but balance the remote kb on my lap leads to some annoying mistakes. That was a bit obvious. Of course I meant to say 3334% - that's amazingly huge

I have a feeling that many Muslims (and other non-USAmericans) might look at this poll and conclude that the U.S. is a nation of torturers. (And no, I do not believe that we are.)

Let's just focus on the relatively tiny number of actual terrorists and not the macho poseurs and wannabees who want to look tough to each other but who are no real danger. Difficult? Yes...but necessary.