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chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:03 pm
by wesw
hey. maybe I missed the thread about the attack in Tennessee....

I ll go look in religion and philosophy.....

Re: chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:29 pm
by Lord Jim
I was going to start a thread about this earlier Wes, but I thought I'd wait till we knew more about the shooter. Now we do, and a picture is emerging. Here's what we know so far about Mohammod Youssuf Abdulazeez:

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Chattanooga shooter changed after Mideast visit, friend says

Chattanooga, Tennessee (CNN)The man who killed four Marines in Chattanooga, Tennessee, changed after spending time in the Middle East and "distanced himself" for the first few months after returning, a friend says.

"Something happened over there," Abdulrazzak Brizada said of Muhammad Youssuf Abdulazeez, adding that "he never became close to me like he was before he went overseas. ... I'm sure he had something that happened to him overseas."

Jordanian sources said Abdulazeez had been in Jordan as recently as 2014 visiting an uncle. He visited Kuwait and Jordan in 2010, Kuwait's Interior Ministry said.
Abdulazeez allegedly had a blog that appeared to illustrate his hard-line religious beliefs, the Daily Beast reported. The blog had only two posts, both published July 13.

Abdulazeez also took several trips to Jordan, a Muslim-majority country considered one of the more stable Middle Eastern nations, Reuters reported. U.S. authorities are still trying to determine if Abdulazeez came into contact with any radical terrorist groups or extremists during his travels.

Jordan is one of the main crossings for foreign fighters wanting to enter Syria. It is also a host country for hundreds of thousands of Syrian refugees. According to the Post's report, about 2 million people travel from Jordan to the U.S. every year.
http://www.ibtimes.com/chattanooga-shoo ... ez-2014484
According to the SITE Intelligence Group, which monitors online postings by radical Islamist organizations, Abdul­azeez was the author of “MYABDULAZEEZ,” which was first posted on July 13 and included two entries.

In the first, “A Prison Called Dunya,” Abdul­azeez described everyday life as a prison and the Koran as a means of transcending it. In Arabic, “Dunya” refers to earthly concerns as opposed to spiritual ones.

“This life we are living is nothing more than a test of our faith and patience,” he wrote. “It was designed to separate the inhabitants of Paradise from the inhabitants of Hellfire ... Don’t let the society we live in deviate you from the task at hand.”

He added, “Brothers and sisters don’t be fooled by your desires, this life is short and bitter and the opportunity to submit to allah may pass you by.”

In his second posting, Abdul­azeez discussed the Sahaba — companions of the prophet Muhammad — and how they served their faith by bringing it to the world, sometimes through warfare.

Every one of them fought Jihad for the sake of Allah,” he wrote. “Every one of them had to make sacrifices in their lives. . . . After the prophets, they were the best human beings that ever lived.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... story.html

So the picture that emerges is this:

A young Muslim man, after living a fairly normal Westernized life, becomes a radical Jihadist through a combination of participation in the Cyber Caliphate, ( the term that has been coined to describe the web of online Jihadist websites, blogs, and forums) and personal contact overseas. His most recent trip was for four months.

(This is a profile very similar to that of Speed Bump, the older brother in the Boston Bombing plot)

Given just what is known publicly at this point, it would take a really hardcore head-in-the-sand Islamic Terrorism Denier not to admit that these cowardly murders were the result of a Radical Islamic Jihadist motivation. That is clear to the level of a 99.99999999% probability.


ETA:

Image changed to satisfy the image size whiners....

Re: chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:37 pm
by wesw
yeah jim, I gave it a couple of days to pan out.....

Re: chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:58 pm
by Lord Jim
I saw one moron on the tube yesterday trying to claim that since the guy got busted for a DUI, (which occurred after his last trip to the Mid East) his motives couldn't be Islamicist since drinking alcohol is something that a "devout" Muslim would never do...

What this ninny was doing was confusing "radical" and "devout"; they are absolutely not the same thing...

There folks who are both. But there are plenty of devout Muslims or are in no way radical and would never commit an act of violence, (In fact the vast majority of devout Muslims fall into this category, because as folks who know the Koran well, they realize the twisted nature of the contemporary Jihadist interpretations.) and there are radical Jihadists who are not strongly devout. (Some of the 9/11 terrorists spent the night before the hijackings in a strip bar.)

And there are also many Muslims, (particularly here in the US) or are neither radical nor overwhelmingly devout. I know a number of folks who fall into this category personally.

Re: chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:46 pm
by Econoline
From his high school yearbook...

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Re: chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:55 pm
by Lord Jim
Yeah, I read about that...

It was considered a joke at the time...

Not very funny now... :(

Re: chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:18 pm
by Econoline
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/po ... -violence/
Americans are killing each other again. That is the fundamental—if politically less useful—lesson of what happened in Tennessee yesterday. An American citizen got his gun and he went to a strip mall and he killed four of his fellow citizens, killed them as dead as Michael Brown or Eric Garner, as dead as the people who were killed by Dylann Roof, who's awaiting trial, or as dead as the people who were killed by James Holmes, who was convicted of killing them just yesterday. By all the criteria of which we boast of our exceptionalism to the world, Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez was as much of an American as the four people he allegedly murdered. His motivation doesn't matter. He was a citizen. His victims were citizens. Americans killing other Americans. It's an old story being rehearsed again with unfortunate frequency.
"I say violence is necessary. Violence is a part of America's culture.
It is as American as cherry pie."

H. Rap Brown said that in 1967, and everybody pretended to be shocked. The descendants of the people who burned down the Ursuline Convent in Boston pretended to be shocked. The descendants of the lynchers in the South pretended to be shocked. The descendants of the soldiers who slaughtered the native Americans on the Plains pretended to be shocked. The descendants of the men who filled the ranks of the Westies, or La Cosa Nostra, or Nathan Bedford Forrest's cavalry pretended to be shocked. We all pretended to be shocked, just as we all are pretending to be shocked today, just as we all pretended to be shocked after Charleston, and Newtown, and Oklahoma City, and Jonesboro, and Aurora. In his new book, Ta-Nehisi Coates explores the violence inherent in a nation built on the blood of slaves and on a foundation of violent white supremacy. This is how violence is as American as cherry pie. It is baked into the culture of this nation and everybody pretends not to notice until it festers and boils up again.

In that sense, and in that context, Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez was every bit an American. He had a grudge. The basis of that grudge, whether it was rooted in a bloody-minded version of religion or an anger at the country's policies across the seas, is beside the point. Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez was angry at someone or something. He had a problem he could not solve and, being an American, he reached for that most American of solutions. He reached for a gun.

This is not an explanation that carries any political utility. Already, there is the high screeching from the xenophobic Right. Already, there is the inchoate mongering of fear and war. Already, we got a con run on us about how this act was inspired by ISIS, and enough with that already. We are claiming that a bunch of barbarians driving pick-up trucks around the desert have the ability to perform elaborate intercontinental social-media Jedi mind-tricks. In this case, to do so without any concrete evidence, is to ignore the very obvious domestic nature of the crime in question.

According to estimates, so far in 2015, on almost 27,000 occasions, an American chose that same course of action. They all had problems they had decided they could not solve. They all had grudges. They all had something that made them angry enough. And, as a result, almost 7,000 of our fellow citizens are as dead as the people in Tennessee. This is not an explanation that satisfies any particular agenda but, unquestionably, we are a very fearful nation with an unacknowledged history of violence that also has armed itself very heavily. Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez, an American citizen, chose a very American course of action. He had a problem he couldn't solve so he reached for the most American of solutions. He reached for a gun and he killed some of his fellow citizens.​

Re: chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:32 pm
by MajGenl.Meade
Ta-Nehisi Coates explores the violence inherent in a nation built on the blood of slaves and on a foundation of violent white supremacy.
Damnation! It's whitey again!

Re: chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:38 pm
by Econoline
"Cherry pie"???? Not "apple pie"???? Goes to show just how un-American those 60s black militants were.

Didn't anyone else notice this?

Re: chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:08 pm
by Lord Jim
Motive sure seemed to matter when the shooter's name was Dylann Roof....
the violence inherent in a nation built on the blood of slaves and on a foundation of violent white supremacy.
So the author manages to find a way to blame a person murdering as an Islamic Jihadist in 2015 on slavery and "white supremacy".... :loon :loon :loon

I found this about the author of that load of bat guano:
Charles P. Pierce is a staff writer for Grantland and the author of Idiot America.
I assume that last must have been an autobiography....

Re: chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:54 pm
by Econoline
Lord Jim wrote:So the author manages to find a way to blame a person murdering as an Islamic Jihadist in 2015 on slavery and "white supremacy".... :loon :loon :loon
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I guess I'm not surprised that that's what you took away from that essay, but....NO. That's not at all where the author puts the blame, any more than he puts the blame on H. Rap Brown.

Here you go (with more large, bold, underlined, and italicized type):
This is how violence is as American as cherry pie. It is baked into the culture of this nation and everybody pretends not to notice until it festers and boils up again. [...]

This is not an explanation that satisfies any particular agenda but, unquestionably, we are a very fearful nation with an unacknowledged history of violence that also has armed itself very heavily. Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez, an American citizen, chose a very American course of action. He had a problem he couldn't solve so he reached for the most American of solutions. He reached for a gun and he killed some of his fellow citizens.​

Re: chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:55 pm
by MajGenl.Meade
MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Ta-Nehisi Coates explores the violence inherent in a nation built on the blood of slaves and on a foundation of violent white supremacy.
Damnation! It's whitey again!

Re: chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:30 am
by wesw
the KKK and the Black Panthers had opposing rallies yesterday....

....but do the Islamists attack them?

Noooooooooooo........, they re too busy..., off setting wildfires.....

policemen and terrorists, there s never one around when you need one.....

:)

Re: chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:38 am
by Lord Jim
He reached for a gun
And another Jihadist in Boston reached for a knife to cut off the heads of cops with, and the Boston bombers reached for pressure cookers...

I guess if it's a Jihadist terrorist, then motives don't matter...somehow it's our society's collective fault... :roll:

On the other hand if it's a white racist, then of course motive is paramount; in fact it's so important that people work themselves into a frenzied lather over whether or not it's a "hate crime"....

Re: chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:48 pm
by Econoline
:arg

I'm not sure why you think that Dylann Roof's motives are seen as any *MORE* important than the motives of James Holmes, Jared Loughner, Nidal Hasan, Adam Lanza, Seung-hui Cho, or any of these guys or these guys...or why you think that nobody is trying to find out what this killer's motive was.

But the facts remain (1)that (unlike Mohammad Abdulazeez*) Dylan Roof, prior to his actions, made his motives and the prejudices behind those motives abundantly clear; (2) that those prejudices are shared by a substantial number of his fellow U.S. citizens; and (3) those motives and prejudices just might be something which the rest of us can try to eliminate or at least diminish.




* I stand ready to change this part of my post if and when they find any sort of clear manifesto left by Abdulazeez describing his motives.

Re: chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:43 pm
by wesw
because the mohametans are on a worldwide crusade to destroy or enslave you, econo. that is why their motives are more important.

in case you have not noticed , they are in Libya, Iraq, Syria, sudan, Nigeria, Kenya, Indonesia, Somalia, yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan, London, paris, NY, boston, chatanooga.....

they even have one complete nation, and they have slave markets where you can get a nice yazidi or Christian girl for a good price.

oppose that to a pimply faced little Nazi heroin addict that only his momma could love....

Re: chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:56 pm
by Lord Jim
or why you think that nobody is trying to find out what this killer's motive was.
I never said anything of the sort...

Just from what is known publicly, his general motive is abundantly clear; he wanted to strike a blow for Islamic Jihad; and I'm sure hundreds of FBI agents are working to fill in more specifics.


My comment about the motive not mattering was in reference to the idiotic assertions made by the moronic ideologue who's article you thought worthy of adding to this discussion. Clearly the motives in this case don't matter to him, because he says so in so many words:
His motivation doesn't matter.
Of course this clown had a very different take on the importance of considering motive when he bloviated about the Charleston shooting:

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/po ... iscussion/
What happened in a Charleston church on Wednesday night is a lot of things, but one thing it's not is "unspeakable." We should speak of it often. We should speak of it loudly. We should speak of it as terrorism, which is what it was. We should speak of it as racial violence, which is what it was.

We should speak of it as an attack on history, which it was...


We should speak of it as an assault on the idea of a political commonwealth, which is what it was. ...[Which of course applies perfectly to Jihadist terrorism]

Think about what happened. Think about why it happened. Talk about what happened. Talk about why it happened. Do these things, over and over again.


Re: chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:14 pm
by rubato
MajGenl.Meade wrote:
MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Ta-Nehisi Coates explores the violence inherent in a nation built on the blood of slaves and on a foundation of violent white supremacy.
Damnation! It's whitey again!

You should try reading a selection of his writing.



yrs,
rubato

Re: chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:31 pm
by rubato
Econoline wrote::arg

I'm not sure why you think that Dylann Roof's motives are seen as any *MORE* important than the motives of James Holmes, Jared Loughner, Nidal Hasan, Adam Lanza, Seung-hui Cho, or any of these guys or these guys...or why you think that nobody is trying to find out what this killer's motive was.

But the facts remain (1)that (unlike Mohammad Abdulazeez*) Dylan Roof, prior to his actions, made his motives and the prejudices behind those motives abundantly clear; (2) that those prejudices are shared by a substantial number of his fellow U.S. citizens; and (3) those motives and prejudices just might be something which the rest of us can try to eliminate or at least diminish.




* I stand ready to change this part of my post if and when they find any sort of clear manifesto left by Abdulazeez describing his motives.

Or Buford Furrow, or Harris and Kliebold or, Kip Kinkel or &c &c &c. You are exactly right but they aren't emotionally intelligent or honest enough to 'get it'. None of these are 'the other' the evil outsider attacking us because they hate us these are all an alienated subgroup of 'Us' who have been wound up and armed to the teeth by a society which is emotionally stupid, which reaches for violence to solve every problem which frightens and vexes us. Crime got you scared? <<Make the Penalties Harsher! Hurt them more!>> Repuglicans got you worked up over illegal immigrants? Foreigners coming to rape your daughters! <<Punish them more! Break up their families and Keep them in Poverty>> Drugs got you nervous? << Determinate sentencing! Punish them more and harder (especially if they're black and don't look like us) >>.

And by the way we have a powerful political party devoted to making sure that every one of these killers can get as many guns and as much ammunition as they could ever want.

Violence is baked into the culture. They've been marinated in it and lack perspective or the habit of honest self-examination .


yrs,
rubato

Re: chatanooga jihad

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:36 pm
by Econoline
Any more info? Any progress on determining a clear motive for this guy's shooting spree--anything like the online manifestos and photos of Dylann Roof or the on-air misogynistic/Tea Party rants of John Russell Houser? Or are we still just going with (as Lord Jim put it) "his name is Mohammad general motive is abundantly clear"? :shrug