Plan B Forum

Answer me just three questions:
As a way reduce gun violence, what would be wrong with restricting possession guns and ammunition to only the militia? Would that not reduce the number of legally held guns in private hands?
Is that not your goal?

Since there is no militia, it would reduce new gun sales to zero (other than for governmental security forces)

It would not reduce the number of legally held guns already in private hands. There would have to be a period of voluntary surrender followed by a confiscatory act giving the state the power to search people and places to find the unknown number of guns already out there. Good luck with that

A draconian increase in the power of the state is not usually the goal of those who are concerned about gun violence, although it clearly is a subtext and inevitable

MajGenl.Meade wrote:A draconian increase in the power of the state is not usually the goal of those who are concerned about gun violence, although it clearly is a subtext and inevitable

As demonstrated by the dictatorship of Australia.

Ah, Sue. Perhaps I was too subtle. I doubt you would support laws permitting random search and seizure of any and all houses and property based upon the notion of the authorities that a gun might possibly be there? That is what lib's proposal must inevitably require - how else does he propose collecting all these guns in private hands?

ETA he speaks not of restricting NEW sales to militia only. He talks of outright reduction in the number of guns already in private hands - confiscation by the state, which must require search and seizure in the blind. Since most guns are not registered and the owners/quantities are unknown, his suggestion leads to the conclusion that there would have be some kind of "search warrant upon the off-chance". It could just be his struggle with the English language

MajGenl.Meade wrote:Ah, Sue. Perhaps I was too subtle.

Sometimes I need things spelled out, because sometimes I am A Idiot. Or blinded by my knee-jerk reaction to dumbassery, take your pick.

In any event, thanks for the clarification.

Ow! That knee really hurt!

I think he's on to something though. Maybe all gun sales should be restricted to crustaceans or Martians since they are more likely to be around than a state-organized militia. I suppose given wear and tear, it would in the end reduce the number of "legal" guns out there. Unless otherwise law-abiding people (shock!) obtained 'em illegally (horror!).

On balance, I think I'd prefer mandatory registration and licensing of all firearms. The only injury there is to nimrods who think the big bad government is about to take over.... as if it hadn't already.

Sue U wrote:

MajGenl.Meade wrote:A draconian increase in the power of the state is not usually the goal of those who are concerned about gun violence, although it clearly is a subtext and inevitable

As demonstrated by the dictatorship of Australia.

Where they have no freedom and everyone is very sad all the time.



yrs,
rubato

This country culturally is not England; no law passed will have any effect on gun violence unless there is some way to insure that only reliable citizens have guns.

There are already enough guns in private hands in the country to last a hundred years.

Anyone that can buy illicit drugs can buy a guns. Most people in most parts of the country already know someone who has at least one gun.

MajGenl.Meade wrote:Ow! That knee really hurt!

gun sales should be restricted to crustaceans or Martians since they are more likely to be around than a state-organized militia.

What do you know that I don't? What makes you think that only a states can organized a militia? A militia is a community based organization. The state government can choose to regulate it or not. But if the people of a state where unable to require the state government to allow the establishment of militias the right to own guns would end in that state.

I think the answer is to have the shooting sports pay for themselves just like we do with cars:


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14339


yrs,
rubato

liberty wrote:

MajGenl.Meade wrote:Ow! That knee really hurt!

gun sales should be restricted to crustaceans or Martians since they are more likely to be around than a state-organized militia.

What do you know that I don't? What makes you think that only a states can organized a militia? A militia is a community based organization. The state government can choose to regulate it or not. But if the people of a state where unable to require the state government to allow the establishment of militias the right to own guns would end in that state.

Study the Militia Act of 1903 and come back with what you glean. Here's an example: an unorganized militia, as in Texas, consists of every citizen between the ages of 17 and 45. So is that what you mean by restricting gun sales to "militia" - it's an age related thing?

(PS the unorganized militia is subject to call by the State - it cannot call itself into being as organized militia. I suspect you think that any group calling itself a "militia" counts - well, it doesn't)