It takes balls of purest brass

[Scooter]

Fucking incredible

Flint Sends Overdue Notices to Residents Who Aren’t Paying for Their Water, Which Is Poison

By Ben Mathis-Lilley

Flint, Michigan, is sending out notices to residents who haven't been paying for their city water services. The notices say that services could be cut off if payment isn't received. This is a normal civic administrative practice except for one thing: Flint's water is so badly poisoned that the National Guard and Federal Emergency Management Agency have been called in to manage the situation, which has left residents drinking bottled water that's being given out as an emergency measure.

In a matter that, remarkably, appears unrelated to the problems involving the toxic elements in the water, the city had been enjoined last year from sending overdue notices because of a lawsuit accusing it of raising service rates improperly. But with that restriction lifted, and after a break from issuing notices over the holidays, "officials say they will again start sending warnings to those behind on their bills," the MLive site reported Thursday.*

As MLive notes in dry fashion:

Some residents have expressed outrage over the fact they are being billed for water they cannot drink without filtration due to elevated lead levels found in water in some Flint homes.

Sounds about right.

Every government official, from Rick Snyder down, that had anything to do with this fiasco should be locked in a cell where they are given nothing to drink except untreated water from the Flint River that is run to their cells in lead pipes.

[wesw]

I realize that the sovereign is generally protected civilly, tho perhaps not here...

anyway, isn t it criminal for the powers that be who knew about the lead to at least, at least, inform people when it was discovered?

it must be criminal not to have done so, right?

if not, it should be.

[MajGenl.Meade]

It is crass.

However, it's possible these are people who have been behind on their bills from long ago when the water was good. They still have to pay up, even if today the water is not good.

Or the government could decide to forgive the debt considering the awful mess they've made of Flint's water supply.

Either way, I doubt that these people are being asked to pay for the dirty water - unless the problem goes back to 2014?

[Lord Jim]

That may very well be the case Gen'l; from the article I qouted in the earlier thread I started about this:

The problem dates back to April 2014, when Flint was under the direction of an emergency manager appointed by the state to try to fix the broken city. (Michigan law provides for the governor to select managers, and the provision has been used in several places in recent years, most prominently Detroit.) To save money, the city began drawing its water from the Flint River, rather than from Detroit’s system, which was deemed too costly. But the river’s water was high in salt, which helped corrode Flint’s aging pipes, leaching lead into the water supply.

The move saved millions, but the problems started becoming apparent almost immediately. The water starting smelling like rotten eggs. Engineers responded to that problem by jacking up the chlorine level, leading to dangerous toxicity. GM discovered that city water was corroding engines at a Flint factory and switched sources. Then children and others started getting rashes and falling sick.

Marc Edwards, a Virginia Tech environmental-engineering professor, found that the water had nearly 900 times the recommend EPA limit for lead particles. As my colleague Alana Semuels noted in a deeply reported feature in July 2015, residents believe the city knew about problems as soon as May 2014. Yet as late as February 2015, even after tests showed dangerous lead levels, officials were telling residents there was no threat.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... it/423342/

In any event, it appears these people are still being charged for current "water" use and "water" use for the past few months...

[Long Run]

Agreed that officials that knew of the problem should face jail time. However, even though the water is not potable, it can be used for other purposes. And if the users aren't paying for it, then who is going to do so? Clearly, the FUBAR that is Flint needs all the revenue it can get to pay to fix its water system and its other man-made disasters, and better the users be on the hook than taxpayers across the state and country who had no role in this disaster.

[Guinevere]

It's only good for toilet water, really. No cooking, bathing, cleaning. And since most utilities have a minimum charge regardless of usage, these folks are getting hosed.

Sovereign immunity generally does not apply to actions that are wanton, willful, or malicious, or outside the scope of official duties. But you'd have to look at the applicable MI law to do a thorough analysis.

[Scooter]

Agreed that officials that knew of the problem should face jail time. However, even though the water is not potable, it can be used for other purposes. And if the users aren't paying for it, then who is going to do so? Clearly, the FUBAR that is Flint needs all the revenue it can get to pay to fix its water system and its other man-made disasters, and better the users be on the hook than taxpayers across the state and country who had no role in this disaster.

The state is responsible because the decision to use Flint River water was made by the city manager appointed by the state. If the taxpayers across the state are unhappy with that, then they can punish the current state administration for it at the polls when the time comes.

[Long Run]

The state is responsible because the decision to use Flint River water was made by the city manager appointed by the state.

Good point. It's not my problem, it's MI problem.

[Crackpot]

Dont get me started the entire (well I'm exaggerating I'm sure there's a couple honest players) state Republican Party should be hanged for treason for subverting the democratic process. That's not likely to happen as the opposition party is completely incompetent and out of touch

[kmccune]

Who screwed up the water sources to start with ? Was it GM and or heavy industry ? Water filters will take care of a lot of the problem ,the municipalities should pay for the water filters and bring in fresh potable water from a neighboring state or start construction on a pipeline .Soveirgn immunity ? ,Bull hockey! Is that how the explotation of the Indians was justified ? or as zee nazis said ,"just following orders " too much of this passing the buck goes on now ,there is a problem ,so fix it !

[Crackpot]

"Not my problem" The Michigan Republican Party mantra.

[wesw]

if only they had had pipes of the purest brass....


this really isn t a joking matter tho, sorry.

does anyone here know anything about water piping, Yuge type piping, and the best materials for such piping?

...or of what crimes might be charged in the cases of supervisory officials (fed state and/or local) who did not disclose their knowledge of the contamination to the public?

[oldr_n_wsr]

I thought "big ass" pipes were made of concrete with some type of lining material. And when the water got closer to the end user they went through copper pipes (or galvanized steel), which were soldered (with lead solder) which might be the source of the lead.

I am an engineer, but not a civil engineer.


But I do try to be civil in all aspects of my life.

[wesw]

I ve heard the pipes referred to as "lead lined" in this case, and that they built up some kind of layer which shielded the lead from the water, until a more corrosive water was introduced.

I m not sure tho.

didn t the romans line their aquaducts with lead?

maybe we should eliminate lead altogether from our water systems. seems logical to me.

I can see why the properties of lead make it easy to work with and long lasting, but if one change in causticity can ruin the whole she bang, it hardly seems wise to continue to use lead.

[Crackpot]

They are lead pipes at in older areas which in itself isn't (or at least wasn't) the problem. Pumping corrosive water through them with not a thought given to environmental impact is the problem. It's telling that the MDEQ is going for the complete incompetence defense since at this point the only other option is criminal negligence.

[Crackpot]

Wes you realize you are talking about replacing all the infrastructure that sits below our oldest cities?

[wesw]

yup.

good thing that we are gonna have a get er done builder to vote for this year.

I bet that there wouldn t be many unemployed young men if we had all that work to do. good money in that type of work.....

....and right thru the cities too, right where it s needed....

...and I d bet that those union guys would get a nice boost....

hardhats for everyone!!!!!

what kind of environmentalist are you anyway?

championing lead in our water..., the shame, the shame....

[Scooter]

And Mexico will pay for it.

[wesw]

....and new bridges! the steel is right there just waiting to be dug up and cooked!

and we could tear down those damned dams! everytown along the river could operate it s own riverflow hydro power turbines!

we could have salmon again! the fish would come and we could feed ourselves!

and rockfish would run! the would run thru the streams of Delmarva again!!!

mr trump, TEAR DOWN THOSE DAMS!!!!!!

[Fafhrd]

The state is responsible because the decision to use Flint River water was made by the city manager appointed by the state.

Good point. It's not my problem, it's MI problem.

I would guess that the people of MI feel that it isn't their proglem, it's Flint's problem.