Plan B Forum

. . . apparently exists for all we gals who don't vote for Hillary, so saith my former idol, Madeleine Albright.

Then another former idol says young women are only going with Bernie because 'that's where the boys are' - Gloria Steinem.


I've been really pissed about this and today found another person's post on Facebook that totally captures my frustrations:

J Sirkka Wirkki shared her post to the group: Bernie Sanders- Presidential Candidate For The People.
Yesterday at 10:32am ·
I am so completely disgusted at Gloria Steinem right now. She has let down our gender by being such an IDIOT and not having a clue about Bernie and why we all love him, and by insulting the intelligence of all women who support him. I am now erasing all the years of admiring her while I was growing up feminist in the 70's.
It's not that young women support Bernie because "they want to meet men" and that's where the boys are. It's that a lot of women -- even previously presumed intelligent women such as Gloria Steinem -- who are blinded by the biases and myopia of the feminist ideology, want to go where the vagina is.
It's time for Gloria and other women who stubbornly remain blind about Hillary, to open their minds and evolve beyond feminism to become humanists, like Bernie is, and like so many of his supporters are.

Uh oh - that's Guin gone until after January next

There was a political cartoon yesterday that summed up the stupidity on this:

The first panel showed a man and a woman saying "We have to make sure there won't be a republican elected to the presidency in November"

The next shows the man, who says "But if we can't nominate a true progressive, then I'll probably stay home"

The following, the woman say "If we nominate a progressive who can't win over a woman who can, then I'll stay home"

The last panel, both saying "We're making sure there will be a republican elected to the presidency in November"

Face it, if you cannot support either Bernie or Hillary because of their policies, then go with your conscience. But if you could support either, don't take it out on the ultimate winner because (s)he beat your candidate. That's just cutting your nose off to spite your face.

'that's where the boys are' - Gloria Steinem.

Hit it Connie:

I certainly won't criticize women who vote for Hillary because she is a woman. Identity politics is politics, after all. But you certainly risk alienating a whole pool of potential supporters by branding them all as traitors to their gender (or ethnicity or sexuality or whatever) or empty-headed sexmonsters because they have made a different political decision on different grounds.

Undoubtedly, some men (and some women) will vote against Hillary because they don't want to see a woman in a position of political power. Some men (and some women) will vote for Hillary because of the historical significance of the first woman president. But virtually all will vote based on who they think is the "best" candidate for the job -- using whatever criteria they deem important.

One would hope Sue; and when the dust settles, I would also hope most people who voted for the losing candidate will consider voting for the person who beat their candidate and not hold it against them. But silly comments like those in the link BSG posted really don't help all that much toward that end.

Lord Jim wrote: Hit it Connie:

I used to play in a spoof lounge act that did a truly hilarious parody version of "Where the Boys Are." As a cha-cha.

Cripes - LJ is wesw! I never woulda got that!

I agree with what Sue and Big RR wrote

Cripes - LJ is wesw! I never woulda got that!

That video was actually relevant to the thread, Neade...

Big dif....

Hillary's a woman? Since when?

younger folks aren t as hardened to the politics of life yet. they hold strong opinions and are sure that they are right.

they also hold grudges and have been educated in a grievance culture.

aggrieving them doesn t bode well for Hillary in the short, or long, runs....

(insert youtube video, of Eagles-Long Run, here)

The Facebook post I shared is from a woman my age, I'm assuming, since she references growing up feminist in the 70s and that's the same era I grew up defending ERA to neighborhood boyz.

Ultimately I will vote for whomever the Democrat nominee is, because anyone on the Republican side is much worse for this country.

But while I'd love to see the first woman President in my lifetime, I'm not voting Hillary when there is a male Elizabeth Warren running - it's the policies that matter to me and the Clintons are too cozy in bed with Wall Street.

Barack Obama didn't have to deal with that kind of confusion and bitterness from his potential black supporters; most of them understood that this is not a post-racist country. And that being the case, his race mattered.


Is it a post-feminist world? Have women attained so many positions of power that the Presidency is just merely symbolic? Or does it matter? Should it weight the decision even partially in her direction?


I think I can understand Gloria Steinem's (81 yrs) view because she has been fighting this battle for a long time and spent 60ish years trying to get women to care about their own interests and their own rights and is very focussed on knocking over another milestone (while she is alive).


I guess I don't understand being mad at her while I do understand you wanting your decision to be respected as one a feminist might reasonably make. But I think you have to make a case for this being a post-feminist era to do that.


yrs,
rubato

I must admit that I was completely wrong about Bernie.

I stated that I wasn t worried about Bernie taking the nation by storm early in the debate here.

well, Bernie has brought the weather with him.....

reminds me of an ozzie concert at the local civic center when I was a young man. the city council tried to ban him and he threatened to sue and they relented.

anyway..., just about the time everyone got in, which was after the first act and right when ozzie started, it started raging and thundering and lightening outside, the whole civic center shook from the thunder booming.

then ozzie comes out and says...,"THEY TRIED TO BAN ME? WELL I BROUGHT THE FUCKING WEATHER WITH ME!!!!"

he then put on a really great concert. I wasn t a fan , really, until that night....

One of the advantages of being British that we had Maggie Thatcher. It meant that had the opportunity to get past the 'love her because she is the first woman PM' and that she had broken through the glass ceiling (although we did not call it that then). And some of us went quite quickly to the 'hate her because she is an arsehole' like so many of her Tory brethren.

wesw wrote:anyway..., just about the time everyone got in, which was after the first act and right when ozzie started, it started raging and thundering and lightening outside, the whole civic center shook from the thunder booming.

then ozzie comes out and says...,"THEY TRIED TO BAN ME? WELL I BROUGHT THE FUCKING WEATHER WITH ME!!!!"

Whatinthehell is that supposed to mean?  Makes about as much sense as this guy, wearing a special-constructed hat with a metal basin so he could perform with an actual god-damned fire burning on the top of his skull.



-"BB"-

NO SENSE MAKES SENSE....

The reason I am thinking of voting for sanders is I think he really cares about the working class people of this country. Most politicians say those factory jobs are gone and they are not coming back. Our jobs have gone overseas and any attempt to bring them back would be racist, criminal and an act of economic warfare. That is crap; leaders of this country have a duty to the workers of this country. They should do whatever is needed to bring manufacturing jobs back to this country and the hell with threat of economic warfare, bring it on.

The reason that most politicians won’t do anything is because they have their money invested overseas; it is not in their economic interest bring the jobs back.

The actual quote from Madeleine Albright was, "There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women." It's a line she is famous for and has been saying for years; there was even a Starbucks cup with it, and Wellesley College sells a t-shirt with the quote after she used the line in a speech there in 2004. (Sarah Palin once used that quote in 2008, after seeing it on the Starbucks cup, and Taylor Swift famously used it in a Vanity Fair interview in 2013. It's also available on everything from coffee mugs to kid's hoodies to trucker caps to mousepads.)

I think she was just riffing on something that has long been associated with her, not specifically saying "vote for Clinton or go to hell."






ETA: However, I can't think of ANY explanation or excuse for what Gloria Steinem said...

Senility?