Plan B Forum

It boggles my mind that FDR was able to see that and warn us about it eighty years ago, and yet "We The People" still sat back and let it happen.

-"BB"-

Back in September 19, 1926, H L Mencken wrote in his column for the Chicago Daily Tribune: “No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”

And in the late 1960's I was in grad school studying Political Science. It was an accepted truism that in America, the better informed a voter was about the issues, the sooner they decided on who they would vote for. The group generally called 'undecided' made their choice on more trivial data, the closer they got to the voting booth when they decided. Exit polls produced reasons for late choice such as 'I liked the way they combed their hair.' More recently it was actually touted by a successful candidate, that he was a person you could enjoy drinking a beer with in your back yard.

The leading Republican candidate for president today has proudly declared that even he stood in a public place in New York city and killed a randomly selected victim, his supporters would still vote for him.

hmmm.

trump supporters chose early and haven t changed their minds....

maybe your grad school truism was right and Mencken was wrong.....

On the contrary, Trump's success to date is the absolute proof of the accuracy of Mencken's observation...

And PT Barnum's as well:

"There's a sucker born every minute"...

The biggest problem I have with Trump supporters is that every time I have heard on intervi3ewed, they cannot state a single policy/position of Trump that makes them support him. It's always something like "He says what needs to be said" (meaning what?) or "He'll make America great again" (and right now America is what?). Some state it is because "He's not part of the establishment" (but then neither is Charles Manson, would you vote for him?) or he self funds and is in no one's pocket (although Trump has repeatedly said that he thinks most people don't know this--and even if that is the case, is that a reason to support someone with no concrete ideas?). I agree Trump doesn't make it easy because he's big on rhetoric and short on ideas, but it doesn't speak well of those who support him.

So far as I know, no other candidate has been opaque in his/her positions. Even Bernie (who Jim likes to compare to Trump) has put forth concrete ideas of what he plans to do and how he plans to do it. And most Bernie supporters can recite these. The other candidates have done the same.

Is it somehow putting people down to point out that Trump supporters are only supporting a series of emotionally driven slogans without any real meat to them? I don't think so.

is that a reason to support someone with no concrete ideas?).

On the contrary, Trumpty has a number of "concrete" ideas...in fact they're some of the most block-headed ideas I've ever heard:

Build a wall on the Mexican border and get Mexico to pay for it...

Forcibly deport 11 million people...

Ban all Muslims from entering the US...

alright, ive only read your first sentence so far, RR, , and it s a legitimate question.

I ll address it before I read further for simplicity s sake.

1- trump is going to reduce the tax rate for companies that bring overseas profits home.

I m not sure of the rates now, 35% maybe, but trump said in the beginning of his campaign that he would reduce them to 10-15 %.

others would drop it further and he said he would if he had to, but he thought he could get the money back home for 10 - 15 %

this, in my opinion would bring manufacturing back here, and generally stimulate the economy.

he also would reduce the corporate tax rate.

2- immigration?secure border...., I know he has used a lot of hyperbole, but that is just setting up the deal...

asking for the moon and stars so that they are happy to give you just the moon in the end, which was all you really wanted.

the immigration issue also would effect jobs. young men would have many construction jobs open up and farm jobs, even if the influx of overseas profits did nothing.

it s the economy stupid.

3- the second amendment- I believe what he says about that. he and his sons all pack heat, I think.

my one non negotiable issue is the second amendment.

4- trade deals..., I think that he would succeed in getting us on equal footing, trade wise.

5- drugs- a secure southern border would greatly reduce heroin, cocaine, meth along with the crime and cartels and the gangs and the human misery they bring.

plus he refuses to be baited into promising to ban pot. he supports med marijuana.

I believe that he would leave it to the states, as it should be. Kasich, I believe, lost support with his strong anti pot stance.

I could go on but I m tired of typing..., I ll go read the rest of your post now...

6- jobs

7- jobs.....

.... oh and healthcare!!!!

I like his stands on healthcare!

oh! oh! and the incestuaous relationships between special business interests and politicians and parties.....

Hillary really helps him by being a shining example of the prob.

..and he doesn t bow to fox or the gop either,

and ive seen numerous interviews with his two oldest sons and his daughter. they seemed pretty great.

there are many issues I disagree with him on too, but I don t agree with anyone about everything.

I really want the parties to dissolve.

RR, I do agree that Bernie and trump are similar in many ways. they are agents of change.

as john Kasich would say..., fasten your seat belts....

I m still open to Kasich too, but I need more than just me to support him.....

Speaking of quotes that "remind you" of someone, I found a website with a lot of Huey Long quotes...

Imagine my surprise when I discovered many that "reminded" Trump, and many that "reminded" me of Sanders...

Just a couple of samples:

Trump:

You sometimes fight fire with fire. The end justifies the means. I would do it some other way if there was time or if it wasn't necessary to do it this way."
— Huey Long

I'd rather violate every one of the damn conventions and see my bills passed, than sit back in my office, all nice and proper, and watch 'em die."
— Huey Long on lobbying state legislators

Sanders:

...when you have a country where one man owns more than 100,000 people, or a million people, and when you have a country where there are four men, as in America that have got more control over things than all the 120 million people together, you know what the trouble is."
— Huey Long, Share Our Wealth radio address, February 23, 1934

Not a single thin dime of concentrated, bloated, pompous wealth, massed in the hands of a few people, has been raked down to relieve the masses."
— Huey Long in 1934 on the first New Deal of 1933

Many more:

http://www.hueylong.com/perspectives/hu ... quotes.php

In each of the states that have been actually polled (Iowa and New Hampshire) and in the upcoming South Carolina and Nevada, Undecided were the largest group going into the poll, and Trump has not come close to winning a majority.

Snailgate.

Jim--I would have thought that

You sometimes fight fire with fire. The end justifies the means. I would do it some other way if there was time or if it wasn't necessary to do it this way."
— Huey Long

would be your credo after all the times you accused me of moral relativism ala Ms. Kirkpatrick.

FWIW, I won't say a quote is wrong just because of the person who said it. Now it may well be that the person who said it means something different than what the words say, or is just trying to manipulate people, but you can usually get that from the context of the speech in which it was made.

what, nothing for me , RR?

...and snailgate..., Thank you captain obvious!

I have to (reluctantly) use emoticons since folks tend to take what I say too seriously...

sometimes my brilliant wit and 'sahara dry' humour exceed the capacities of the internet s translatory (a new word?) abilities.

so subtle and intellectual is my humour that it could easily be mistaken for something that is not funny at all...

but I refuse to talk down to the people, that would be insulting and not appreciated by them. they prefer my eloquent genius in full flower , as they are enlightened by its delicate beauty...

you are all welcome!!!

so subtle and intellectual is my humour that it could easily be mistaken for something that is not funny at all...

You'd be surprised just how frequently that happens wes...

what, nothing for me , RR?

Nothing right away; you point out some positions he has apparently taken, and I will look into them when I get a chance.

I will point out that his views on immigration and securing the borders seem to me to be more rhetoric than concrete ideas, unless they are unworkable--get Mexico to pay for the wall, e.g.

Likewise, with healthcare, he appears to be the only candidate who has linked vaccines to autism and I recall in one debate he talked about replacing Obamacare with Health Savings accounts, which seems unworkable--mainly because most people could never save enough to pay for serious problems--that's why we have insurance. Has he talked any about his plans on what he would replace it with? Bernie, e.g., has come out with a plan to convert to single payer, Hillary embraces Obamacare and talks about dealing with the problems so far realized; is his only suggestion Heath Savings Accounts.

trump has said we have many good options on healthcare.

he supports bringing down the competition barriers . right now the insurance companies each have their own zones where competition is limited. basically they have monopolies.

he wants to bring those artificial barriers down and let real competitive bidding exist..., at the least.

he has also voiced support for single payer and is careful not to rule it out now. he often points out that the health insurance companies are bloodsuckers, but he is more polite about it than I am.

I believe I addressed the border hyperbole in my previous post about his positions.

I have listened closely to the speeches of all the candidates, trump especially.

I think that you will find that I was accurate in my stating of his positions.

the problem with not listening to what people actually say is that you don t actually know what you are talking about when you discuss what they say.

kinda like with swamp people...

....he has also said that if we could get the barriers down and have real competition, we would still have a public option open for those who needed it.

he has not said exactly what he would do, which is smart, I think, since no one knows everything and he needs to have time digest info and to decide his best course.

I am a single payer supporter, but everything that he has said on the subject seems reasonable to me and Hillary is suddenly anti-single payer and appears to be bought and sold like pork futures.

if trump and sanders had a test tube love child which gained the best features of both of them, I would
vote for the love child...

maybe if the dems would get behind Kasich I could be swayed, but I don t think that it s gonna happen.

wesw wrote:he has not said exactly what he would do, which is smart, I think, since no one knows everything and he needs to have time digest info and to decide his best course.

Understandable, and even admirable.  But #1, this is *YOU* expressing your opinion as to why you think Trump hasn't said anything concrete, not anything that The Donald has said himself.
#2 — even in the days of the American Expansion westward, when someone set himself up as the person who was going to lead you through the Cumberland Gap to Ohio or on to Californee along the Santa Fe or the Oregon Trails, he would have shown or demonstrated just what it was that qualified him to do so.  Someone who is claiming that he will "lead our country to greatness again!" should do no less.

Instead, he is just telling us to "trust him"; it will all become clear later.  We (the people) will have to elect him before he discloses anything.  Sounds more like he's channeling Nancy Pelosi talking about the Affordable Care Act — "...But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy"; the only difference is that this time he's twisted the concept to his favor.

-"BB"-