Donald and Vlad

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Lord Jim
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Donald and Vlad

Post by Lord Jim »

These are excerpts from a longer article. If you're interested in the topic, the whole piece is worth a read:

http://www.politico.eu/article/trump-an ... -at-birth/
Trump and Putin: Two liars separated at birth?

No wonder they seem to like each other; they are akin in their abuse of the truth.

Among the many dangers of Donald Trump is that he will make the United States “great” again in exactly the way that the GOP front-runner’s one-time admirer, Vladimir Putin, claims he is making Russia “great” again.

In other words, fraudulently.

In Russia today, thanks to Putin, spectacle, theater and lying pervade the media, confuse the discourse and have turned the viewing public into an electorate that no longer seems to care about the truth. The Russian people have grown indifferent to or remain in denial of the basic truth of present-day Russia: that in exchange for the order Putin promised them in 2000, he has brought them corruption, economic and social decline, international denunciation, and partial diplomatic isolation. The geopolitical posturing of his temporary intervention in Syria has not changed that....

...All this serves Putin’s purpose of imposing whatever truth he pleases. In the past two years alone the Russian president has uttered a stream of fact-defying statements that could easily rival Trump’s. In March 2014, after Crimea was seized by what journalists called “little green men”—soldiers of mysterious provenance—Putin insisted they were local militia, but the next month he admitted Russian troops had invaded the peninsula.

In June of that year, Putin stated there was no Russian military presence in eastern Ukraine, but in December he admitted Russian military personnel had been and were there. In September 2015, Putin declared he was sending troops to Syria to fight the Islamic State, but focused instead on saving Bashar Assad; when he announced his recent drawdown, he said Russia’s objectives had largely been met, even though the Islamic State received only a small proportion of airstrikes and remained a threat.

And on the domestic front, a fact-check of a December 2015 Putin news conference by the online newspaper Meduza highlighted six alleged lies he told on topics including toll rates between cars and commercial trucks, parking fees in Moscow and foreign adoption of Russian children.

“This is not merely an ‘information war,’ in other words, but a ‘war on information,’” Pomerantsev said in April 2014. “If the very possibility of rational argument is submerged in a fog of uncertainty, there are no grounds for debate. Sooner or later, the public will give up trying to understand what happened, or even bothering to listen.” This statement illuminates the deeper danger Trump poses to democracy in America today.

Trump, in his own way, is seeking to turn the United States into a post-factual society analogous to Putin’s Russia. He makes claims that are false, doubles down on them when challenged and seems to care not a whit for video or documentary evidence that proves him wrong. He says over and over that America is “losing” and he can make it “win” without substantiating either claim. It’s not that the media don’t challenge him a lot, but simultaneously they give saturation coverage to everything he says and they don’t seem able to keep up with the torrent of nonsense issuing from his mouth.

Thus, as in Russia, Trump’s lying is enabling and feeding an indifference to the truth. In a March 28 speech, President Obama cited the work of Politico reporters who fact-checked 4.6 hours of Trump speeches and news conferences and identified more than 51 lies, or as David Brooks of The New York Times put it, “one every five minutes.” This past week alone, Trump made false and irresponsible statements about the Geneva Conventions, nuclear proliferation, and NATO and our Asian allies’ contribution to security. More recently he offered up a view of the U.S. economy that forecast a coming “very massive recession,” which Washington Post writer Jim Tankersley called a mix of “economic conspiracy theories with magical-thinking accounting.”

Despite such attempts at fact-checking, reporters just don’t seem to know how to counter Trump’s large-scale deployment of WMD — Weapons of Mass Denial (of the truth). There are so many lies to dispute now, it seems an overwhelming task; where to start? Intentional or not, the end result is Trump’s statements are not being sufficiently exposed as falsehoods. As with Putin in Russia, his many misrepresentations are enabling and feeding an indifference to the truth in this country....

...In Trump’s case, he is fostering and exploiting indifference toward truth in the service of fear, hatred and a mishmash of poor foreign and domestic policy ideas — including potentially repudiating our alliances in Europe and Asia, undoing decades of free trade reform and trying to force Mexico to pay for an expensive, likely ineffective North American Berlin Wall.
I'm not in 100% agreement with everything in the article (it's written by a former high ranking Obama State department official) but in terms of the analysis of Trump's cynical contempt for truth and manipulation of reality and the comparison with Putin's techniques, I think it's spot on.
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Bicycle Bill
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Re: Donald and Vlad

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Lord Jim wrote:... but in terms of the analysis of Trump's cynical contempt for truth and manipulation of reality and the comparison with Putin's techniques, I think it's spot on.
That right there pretty well sums it Trump's campaign so far.  I'm just waiting for someone more clever than I am to photoshop Trump into this clip; it would go viral.


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-"BB"-
Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Donald and Vlad

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

There can be no confusion whatsoever - duck and deer. Quite different:


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For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Lord Jim
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Re: Donald and Vlad

Post by Lord Jim »

Wrong Vlad... :D

Putin doesn't line the roads with his vanquished opponents head's on pikes...

They just meet with unfortunate accidents...
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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Donald and Vlad

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

You didn't mean Vlad the Impala?
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Long Run
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Re: Donald and Vlad

Post by Long Run »

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Long Run
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Re: Donald and Vlad

Post by Long Run »

Most politicians demagogue, exaggerate, extrapolate, cherry pick facts, and tell the occasional fib; but Trump is 2 or 3 standard deviations beyond the worst politicians when it comes to lack of honesty.

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Lord Jim
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Re: Donald and Vlad

Post by Lord Jim »

Most politicians demagogue, exaggerate, extrapolate, cherry pick facts, and tell the occasional fib; but Trump is 2 or 3 standard deviations beyond the worst politicians when it comes to lack of honesty.


A lot of the Trumpanzees like to speak glowingly of The Trump-thing saying he's "not like the typical politician"...

This is quite true...

He's many orders of magnitude worse than the typical politician...

Donald Trump has given me a new appreciation for the relatively virtuous nature of typical politicians when compared to him...

No, Trump is certainly not the typical politician...

He's an out-sized caricature of a typical politician...Every negative thing associated with typical politicians Trump does more of and more frequently...(and he's thought up a few new ones of his own)

All politicians lie; about the only time Trump isn't lying is when he's asleep or pausing to take a breath...

Most politicians aren't above the occasional smear job on their opponents; the center piece of Trump's whole strategy from the day he announced has been to smear his opponents...those running against him, anyone else of prominence who criticizes him, and whole groups of targeted people...(like Mexicans and Muslims)

All politicians over-promise; Trump's whole platform consists almost entirely of wildly, laughably, implausible proposals that have as much chance of becoming reality as I do of being crowned Miss Teen California...(and the things he actually could do...like tanking all of our alliances...would be unmitigated disasters of historic proportions...)

All politicians occasionally say something untoward or shoot from the hip...

Trump never gets his gun above the hip position, and he's firing an automatic with hundred round clips...

Ted Cruz and Hillary Clinton are unquestionably two truly facile and shameless serial liars, but they're a pair of Honest Abes (who, truth be told, wasn't always honest himself) compared to our Mr. Trump....
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