Plan B Forum

So the news this morning was that Clinton is the "presumptive" nominee and has gained all the delegates she needs for the nomination as the historic first women to represent a major party in a U.S. presidential election. But even though every regular news outlet carried this story line in some manner, it has produced almost no impact or bounce . . . more of a thud. Thoughts on why this news is a non-story?

It isn't to Bernie. He's out there issuing denouncements and ukases against the Democrat party "fixing" things and pointing out that (at least until Tuesday) she doesn't have the magic number of delegates and that the media's mistakenly counting superdelegates who are not pledged irrevocably to vote for Hills but just might vote for Bernie come the convention, so there.

Of course, these are the same party leaders he's accusing of rigging the process so......

Neither Bernie nor Hillary seem to be making much of this. I suspect that this will change by tomorrow, when it turns out that Bernie does not, in fact, get the 90% of the California delegates that many of his supporters are hoping for. (At that point the only hope of the Berniebots will be for almost all of the superdelegates to disregard the will of the actual voters--which is exactly the sort of outcome they were denouncing near the beginning of the primary process, when they thought Bernie might actually get a majority of the regular delegates.)

Really?

http://www.wfaa.com/news/politics/berni ... /234583261

CBS tv News announced at 9pm local, an hour after the NJ polls closed, that Clinton had 61% of the vote and Sanders 39%, so Clinton wins in New Jersey.

WHAT A FUCKING WASTE OF AIR TIME ! ! ! Percent of the total vote over the state is NOT the point ! ! ! How many DELEGATES ?! ?! This is about delegates, not a popular vote. The New Jersey voters were deciding who gets to go to the national party conventions next month.

The so-called major media is absolutely abandoning its duty (and the source of many of its legal rights) to provide information for an educated electorate.

Yes, I am steaming mad. Are those same media 'experts' gonna ignore the electoral college votes in November and just give us percentages of the popular vote?

snailgate.

How many DELEGATES

With proportional delegate distribution, they can't say for sure what the delegate division will be until all the votes are counted.

In the general election all the states (except for Maine and Nebraska that award some electors based on the state winner and others based on the winner of individual Congressional districts) have a winner-take-all system, so when you're able to project the popular vote winner for the state, you also know how many electoral votes they will receive.

MajGenl.Meade wrote:Really?
http://www.wfaa.com/news/politics/berni ... /234583261

Well, that article appeared over 24 hours ago -- things are bound to change. I'm pretty sure Bernie will announce he's throwing in the towel sometime tomorrow. I'm just about done with "feelin' the Bern" and I'm looking for some soothing aloe until I heal completely.

OK, on to the 'real' Democratic candidate. OUCH!!!

Sanders isn’t quitting race, vows “the struggle will continue”

By Joe Garofoli Updated 12:00 am, Wednesday, June 8, 2016

While pressure within the Democrat Party is mounting on the Vermont senator to suspend his White House run, Sanders vowed Tuesday that “the struggle will continue” all the way to the Democratic National Convention in July in Philadelphia.

At a speech in Santa Monica Tuesday, Sanders said his campaign was more than about defeating likely Republican nominee Donald Trump. Sanders said his political revolution is about “transforming the country” away from one that is controlled by its wealthiest interests.

“We are going to fight hard to win the primary in Washington, D.C., and then we take our fight for social, economic, racial and environmental justice to Philadelphia,” he told supporters.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Sand ... 969719.php

Trump has now revealed his game plan for trying to attract Sanders voters...

He's going to try something completely new for him...

He's going to lie shamelessly and tell them what they want to believe, regardless of the facts:

Presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump offered a welcome to Democratic candidate Bernie Sanders's supporters in a speech delivered a day after The Associated Press reported Hillary Clinton clinched the Democratic presidential nod.

"To all those Bernie Sanders voters who have been left out in the cold by a rigged system of superdelegates, we welcome you with open arms," Trump said during his speech, which struck an uncharacteristically conciliatory tone after high tensions from within his own party this week.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/pre ... n-the-cold

Bernie Sanders was not defeated by a "rigged system of superdelegates"...

Indeed, in recent weeks he has been appealing to a "rigged system of superdelegates" to overturn the will of Democratic primary voters and award him the nomination...

Bernie Sanders was defeated because (when you add in last night's results) he received over 3.5 million fewer votes in primaries and caucuses than Hillary, and hundreds fewer pledged delegates.

If you awarded the super delegates based on who won the state they are from, Sanders loses. If you awarded them proportionally based on the vote in each state they are from, Sanders loses.

And if there were no super delegates at all Sanders, (guess what) loses...

The only scenario under which Sanders wins, is if he were somehow able to persuade enough super delegates to ignore the voters of their states and cast their vote for him.

If that were to happen (of course it won't) then it would be Hillary Clinton who would have the right to complain about a "rigged system of superdelegates"...

Burning Petard wrote:CBS tv News announced at 9pm local, an hour after the NJ polls closed, that Clinton had 61% of the vote and Sanders 39%, so Clinton wins in New Jersey.

WHAT A FUCKING WASTE OF AIR TIME ! ! ! Percent of the total vote over the state is NOT the point ! ! ! How many DELEGATES ?! ?! This is about delegates, not a popular vote. The New Jersey voters were deciding who gets to go to the national party conventions next month.

The so-called major media is absolutely abandoning its duty (and the source of many of its legal rights) to provide information for an educated electorate.

Yes, I am steaming mad. Are those same media 'experts' gonna ignore the electoral college votes in November and just give us percentages of the popular vote?

snailgate.

Delegates are awarded proportionally based on the popular vote totals. So yes it does actually matter.

Delegates are awarded proportionally based on the popular vote totals. So yes it does actually matter.

Is there an echo in here?

Don't mess with me today ..... I'll smack you down with my woman card.

Not even close in Calif. :

56% to 43%

yrs,
rubato

Sorry Guin, yes it matters--but the total across the state is not even most of the story: the official rules

84 delegates are to be pledged proportionally to presidential contenders based on the primary results in each of 20 "delegate districts" (unlike the Democratic Parties in most other states, New Jersey's Democrats will not be allocating the state's district delegates to the Democratic National Convention by congressional district but, instead, will utilize 20 special "delegate districts", each of which will consist of two Legislative Districts paired together. (New Jersey elects its State Legislature by Legislative District shared by both the Senate [the upper house] and the General Assembly [the lower house]: each of the state's 40 Legislative Districts [LD] elects 1 of the 40 state senators and 2 of the 80 state assemblymen).
In addition, 42 delegates are to be pledged to presidential contenders based on the primary vote statewide.
28 at-large National Convention delegates
14 Pledged PLEOs


Snail gate

Fine, SG: In NJ, Clinton gets 73 delegates (61%) and Sanders gets 47 delegates (39%), so Sanders actually does a little better in delegate count than his popular vote.

84 delegates are to be pledged proportionally to presidential contenders based on the primary results in each of 20 "delegate districts" (unlike the Democratic Parties in most other states, New Jersey's Democrats will not be allocating the state's district delegates to the Democratic National Convention by congressional district but, instead, will utilize 20 special "delegate districts", each of which will consist of two Legislative Districts paired together. (New Jersey elects its State Legislature by Legislative District shared by both the Senate [the upper house] and the General Assembly [the lower house]: each of the state's 40 Legislative Districts [LD] elects 1 of the 40 state senators and 2 of the 80 state assemblymen).
In addition, 42 delegates are to be pledged to presidential contenders based on the primary vote statewide.
28 at-large National Convention delegates
14 Pledged PLEOs

Wow, congratulations Democratic Party of New Jersey, for managing to come up with the absolutely most complex and convoluted delegate selection formula for either party in the entire country...



And that wasn't an easy achievement...the competition for that distinction was very fierce...

Reading that gave me a headache...

Sue U wrote:Fine, SG: In NJ, Clinton gets 73 delegates (61%) and Sanders gets 47 delegates (39%), so Sanders actually does a little better in delegate count than his popular vote.

In a "rigged" system.

I can understand why Bernie isn't throwing in the towel yet. This is the biggest thing in his life and he doesn't want it to be over just yet.


And I give him credit for being the most honest candidate in the race for any party; I believe he expresses his personal opinions about policy questions with little 'shading' to try to appease one group of voters or another.


yrs,
rubato

Guinevere wrote:In a "rigged" system.

I for one have never complained about a "rigged" system in the party selection process; as I have said before, I have no problem with active party members and party leadership having a greater amount of control over the process than casual members, let alone non-members who might monkey-wrench open primaries.

I had always expected Bernie to lose the nomination, but I think his candidacy and his continued participation through the convention has been and will be significant for raising (or at least re-framing) some issues that might otherwise have been ignored and pulling both Hillary and the party in a more progressive direction. Which is all to the good.

Sue U wrote:... I had always expected Bernie to lose the nomination, but I think his candidacy and his continued participation through the convention has been and will be significant for raising (or at least re-framing) some issues that might otherwise have been ignored and pulling both Hillary and the party in a more progressive direction. Which is all to the good.

That has been my reason for "feelin' the Bern" until last night. I needed him to impress upon Hillary that when she takes the Oath of Office in January she does think she was mandated. Mission accomplished -- I think.

I hope Bernie sees the new light real soon (today or tomorrow?) and will snuff out the dying light of his own torch and move on to become more help than hindrance.