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HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:13 am
by Econoline
This is a piece from the Vox.com series "The Big Idea" which the site describes as "Outside contributors' opinions and analysis of the most important issues in politics, science, and culture."

It's a bit long, but worth it: it raises some important fundamental questions which have always been glossed over in the political debates about medical care and health insurance. (My own emphasis added, occasionally.)
  • America needs to decide: is health care something we owe our citizens?

    "If you can't afford health care, should the state let you die?" And other basic questions we're avoiding.

    Updated by Abbe Gluck | Mar 6, 2017, 10:50am EST
    What exactly are we fighting over when it comes to health reform? Is there really a fundamental philosophical difference between the parties’ positions? Does either party actually have a philosophy of American health care?

    The leaked House plan relies on government tax credits, regulating the insurance industry, and continued government funding to keep the low-income population insured. In other words, it is a plan that relies on both government intervention and the private sector. And it walks a thin line between the idea that in a civilized society every person should have some health care and the opposite idea that you deserve only the health care you earn — and if you don’t earn enough, it’s okay if you suffer.

    The leaked plan is very cruel in many respects, particularly in its stinginess to the poorest Americans, who would see the support they currently receive dramatically reduced. But in other respects, it is not that different from Obamacare.

    This health reform debate, like virtually all the others that have come before it in this country, has failed to confront head-on the most important question in health. As a result, whatever comes out if it will just be another Band-Aid. The fundamental question that every Congress from Truman’s to Trump’s has refused to answer is this: What is a health care system for?

    Democrats and Republicans alike have always been disjointed about the basic purpose of a health care system. Whether we are talking about Obamacare or Ryancare, there is no overarching theory that sets out the fundamental values of American health care.

    If two people are dying from the same disease, and require the same operation to survive, and one can pay and one cannot, is it okay for the poor person to die? After talking ourselves hoarse about health reform in this country for nearly a century, we still have no definitive answer to this question, because the main players in the debate keep dodging it. President Trump himself has said: “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.” Well, it looks like it will happen to some of us. It also happened to some people under Obamacare — and happened to many, many more people before that.


    The key to health care policy is finding a coherent balance between social solidarity and personal responsibility

    This is a central tension in many policy debates, but it has special salience in health care, with life-and-death implications. Health policy wonks call this the tension between social solidarity and personal responsibility (terms popularized in this context by Wendy Mariner of Boston University). That’s what Congress should be debating: whether health care falls into the category of goods that individuals should either acquire on their own or go without. Instead, all of our modern political health debates are about changes on the margins.

    To be sure, they are really big margins, with tremendous human cost: Millions of people would be affected by the Republican cuts. But the fights are not about what we think a health care system should be. On that question, we continue to straddle the line, insisting on an inefficient and fragmented hodgepodge of public and private regulation of health care because we are not comfortable with either option. Worse, we hide this hodgepodge in programs generally invisible to public view — like the tax subsidy for employer provided health care — so we never have a debate on the real issues.

    Part of the problem, believe it or not, is communism. Ronald Reagan, in his efforts to torpedo Medicare in the 1960s, proclaimed government support of health insurance “socialized medicine,” turning a big part of the health care debate into one about the American capitalist ethos and patriotism. (Even before Reagan, the American Medical Association had been sounding this particular alarm). The resonance of Reagan’s message is an important reason why the United States is highly unlikely to ever have a single-payer system, such as a Medicare for everyone. It’s why we keep hearing the term “liberty” to — ironically — justify massive cuts that will have terrible effects on people’s lives.

    To be sure, there are good-faith reasons to object to socialized public policies, particularly the idea that relying on the market, rather than government, can lead to higher efficiency and better results. But we too seldom get to the point of analyzing whether that claim holds true in specific cases, because of the ideological baggage.


    Since the 1940s, the US government has been deeply involved in health care, yet we pretend otherwise

    The US government has played a far greater role in American health care, well before the ACA, than many people know or, in the case of pro-personal-responsibility conservatives, like to admit.

    Many average, even rich, Americans may think that they get no federal aid in this area, but they probably do. They may disdain Medicaid — the low-income insurance program for the poor — but do they realize that approximately half of Americans get their insurance from private companies through work, and that system includes a substantial government “handout” too? We call this the “private payer” system, and it feels like capitalism, not socialism. Since the 1940s, however, US employers have been incentivized to offer health insurance through a massive federal tax exemption for that benefit. Indeed, our current system was largely created by that policy. But the fact that the government involvement is concealed makes it palatable to our ethos.

    On the other hand, we do not give the same help to everyone. Do all single males making $10,000 annually get health care from the government? Most people think the answer is yes, through Medicaid. That’s wrong. Medicaid initially covered only mothers of dependent children, the disabled, and low-income elderly — the so-called deserving poor. While some states stepped up and voluntarily expanded their programs over time to include single adults, including men, many did not. As a matter of national health policy, in short, those adults were deemed undeserving of the community’s support until the ACA tried to cover them.

    The Supreme Court stymied Obama on that front and made the ACA’s Medicaid expansion optional. So it was up to individual states to determine whether low-income single men deserved help. In states that answered that question with a “No,” we rely on charitable hospitals to pick up the slack for these uninsured — but the federal government makes special payments to those hospitals to compensate them. Which approach does that policy exemplify? Socialism or capitalism?

    We are lying to ourselves when we refuse to acknowledge the role the federal government plays in all our health care. Kenneth Arrow, the Nobel Prize–winning economist who died last month, famously wrote of the impossibility of a true free market in health care, claiming: “Nobody is prepared for the idea of a laissez-faire system, and we never really had one.”


    The result of philosophical confusion is a hodgepodge of policies

    Look at all of our workarounds. We run our health insurance program for the poor through the states. We run our health insurance program for many workers though employers (who get tax breaks from the government for their efforts). We say we do not want the federal government meddling with the practice of medicine, but we have built our entire health care system around health insurance access — and we let insurance shape what procedures doctors do, what drugs we use, and even what doctors many of us can see. We say we reject government-sponsored health care, yet the all-federally-run Medicare program is one of the most popular and successful health programs we have.

    The leaked House Republican Plan appears to perpetuate this philosophical mess. It has been kept “top secret,” so the details are unclear, but it appears to repeal the ACA’s requirement that we all buy insurance, but then reinserts a similar idea through the subtler requirement that we all need to maintain insurance coverage with no gaps if we want insurance access. In other words, the government will still interfere and ask the insurance industry to abandon the basic economic model under which insurers make money in a free market: discriminating in pricing based on health risk. Then it gives them subsidies to make up for the lost money. That’s a long, long way from a pure market system.

    The plan seems to “kill” the Medicaid expansion for new enrollees — but there is also talk now of compensating states for these cuts by funneling more money to the hospitals that are going to have to see all the poor uninsured people in those states. That’s still government-subsidized health care — just even more hidden and inefficient than it was under the ACA.

    To be fair, Obamacare perpetuated this confusion. The ACA bent over backward to keep the “private” insurance system in place. Indeed, it anchored the statute’s success on that private industry — something for which the ACA is now paying the price, as insurers defect. At the same time, the ACA regulated the insurance industry as never before, and went further than any other health program in American history to push the needle toward social solidarity in its open goal of universal access to care.

    Really, Obama had no choice. Congress would never have allowed a full federal takeover of the health care system. (Clinton’s plan made only modest moves in that direction, and it was a debacle.) It just isn’t the American way of legislating to scrap decades of incrementally added state and federal programs and start afresh. In the case of health care, however, incrementalism has had a particularly pronounced and unfortunate effect: It has produced layers of health programs — from Medicare and Medicaid, to the HMO Act and ERISA of the 1970s, to HIPAA and EMTALA in the 1990s, to the ACA — all reflecting different theories of equality versus individual choice, and all operated in different ways.

    Without a single philosophy of American health care, we have had to keep layering to try to get the regulation we all know we need for our people while also maintaining the fiction that we can have a successful and morally fair health care system without government centrally in the picture. We have run far too much of health care policy through the back door of the private insurance system. Advancing social solidarity — which it is clear all Americans want to some degree — is really the work of government, even in a system that may always have some private components.


    Confusion aside, Obamacare shifted US policies toward social solidarity

    And so we find ourselves here again. We are in a better starting place than we were in 2008. The ACA’s greatest success lies in how much it tipped the scales in favor of social solidarity. No one is going to take health care away from all of the 20 million the ACA added. It is now the new normal to think, for example, that 26-year-olds should be insured and, in some states, that poor single men deserve health care, too. Even President Trump, as quoted above, embraced the new baseline Obama left behind, claiming everyone would be covered. That’s a remarkable legacy for the ACA. It sounds a lot like solidarity.

    The leaked plan is, of course, going to leave a lot of people out. Or it will give them such skimpy financial assistance that the health care they have will be close to having nothing at all. That is the continuing tension between “us versus me,” and between government and the market, in American health care. It’s our enduring question and it’s clear that this round of health care reform, like all those before it, is not going to debate it openly and honestly.

    Abbe Gluck is professor of law and faculty director of the Solomon Center for Health Law and Policy at Yale Law School.[/size]

Re: HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:06 am
by rubato
The key question is "is it morally wrong to kill people you had the means to save".


Republicans think we should kill them.


yrs,
rubato

Re: HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:16 am
by Long Run
rubato wrote: Republicans think we should kill them.
But only after tickling them with a feather for hours.

Re: HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:26 am
by Econoline
  • rubato wrote:The key question is "is it morally wrong to kill people you had the means to save".


    Republicans think we should kill them.


    yrs,
    rubato
I disagree.

There are *3* key questions:
  • (1) "What is a health care system for?"
    (2) "What is government for?"
    (3) "Where do answers (1) and (2) intersect?"
And neither the Republican party nor the Democratic party have ever had clear answers to these questions.

Re: HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:36 am
by Gob

HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:35 am
by RayThom
Health Care: Twenty minutes or less.

Re: HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:51 am
by dales
Nobody left alive after 30.

Image

Re: HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:45 pm
by Burning Petard
Does any politician really believe, or even act as if they believe, that all men are endowed by their creator with the inalienable right to life?

snailgate.

Re: HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:14 pm
by BoSoxGal
Only before that 'human' draws breath outside the womb is that inalienable right to life believed in by any member of the GOP.

Re: HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:49 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
BoSoxGal wrote:Only before that 'human' draws breath outside the womb is that inalienable right to life believed in by any member of the GOP.
That's a pretty wide brush your painting with.

Re: HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:05 pm
by Lord Jim
oldr_n_wsr wrote:
BoSoxGal wrote:Only before that 'human' draws breath outside the womb is that inalienable right to life believed in by any member of the GOP.
That's a pretty wide brush your painting with.
I'll say... :?

Re: HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:29 pm
by rubato
"... "If you can't afford health care, should the state let you die?" And other basic questions we're avoiding. ... "

The thing a lot of people don't understand is this: To Libertarians, Ayn Randians, and now nearly all of the Republican party it is a moral issue. To them taking money from some people to make others better off is morally wrong, period. It is morally wrong even if doing so decreases poverty overall, It is morally wrong even if it keeps thousands more people alive and healthy longer, it is morally wrong even if it means more children will have living parents.

That is why they don't care how many people have HC. That is why they never hear or respond to the argument that lack of HC causes misery. That is why they will defund Planned Parenthood knowing it takes away HC for nearly a million US women. There is no amount of human misery which has any impact on their thinking.

If, by an operation of the free market unencumbered by regulation and free of compulsion (meaning no one can threaten to kill another), one person has all the food and 9 others will die of starvation according to them it would be a greater moral wrong to take some food and distribute it to the starving (via taxes) than for him to simply let them die. This idea is explicit in Nozick's writing on Libertarianism (Anarchy, State and Utopia). Libertarians do not believe that the practical outcome is a grounds to criticise policy because they are making a moral argument about what the state can compel you to do.

This is why they have tried to block all efforts to improve HC and why their current effort to kill the ACA will take HC from millions of people and they refuse even to talk about that in the hearings.

They don't even care that it will certainly cut the costs of HC by half. Because cutting the costs does not outweigh the moral outrage of taxing one group to give to another.

I, being a Liberal, believe that morality flows from understanding and fulfilling obligations. And I believe we have an obligation to reduce suffering when we are able to do so.

Now, the curious fact is that even though Ayn Rand preached this gospel for many decades when she got lung cancer (from smoking) she took Medicare benefits. In other words they have an ideology which cannot sustain a collision with reality. Nozick rented an apartment from Alex Comfort ("The Joy of Sex) and then sued him using laws to favor renters which his own ideology said were immoral; and although he was questioned about this several times refused to answer. The ideology cannot sustain a collision with reality.

The only thing we can do is explain these things to the Republican voters who made this mess. And who are clueless about the facts.

yrs,
rubato

Re: HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:31 pm
by rubato
oldr_n_wsr wrote:
BoSoxGal wrote:Only before that 'human' draws breath outside the womb is that inalienable right to life believed in by any member of the GOP.
That's a pretty wide brush your painting with.

Broad but accurate. According to the Right to Life people and the GOP a fetus the size of a lima bean has a greater right than a living adult woman, not an equal right.


yrs,
rubato

Re: HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:32 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
Broad but accurate. According to the Right to Life people and the GOP a fetus the size of a lima bean has a greater right than a living adult woman, not an equal right.
And every registered republican agrees with that? :shrug
Did you pol them all? :o

Re: HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:33 pm
by Lord Jim
Broad but accurate. According to the Right to Life people and the GOP a fetus the size of a lima bean has a greater right than a living adult woman, not an equal right.


yrs,
rubato
Oh dear, there's that rube math again...

Of course the percentage of Republicans who believe a fetus has a greater right to life than an adult woman ( ie; would oppose abortion under any circumstances, including to save the life of the mother...a position which rube in typical fact-free bullshit fashion ascribes to the entire membership of the party) is in reality a small minority, not "all" or "nearly all" :


48. Do you think abortion should be legal in all cases, legal in most cases, illegal in most cases or illegal in all cases?

Illegal all cases:

Total: 12%
Republican: 16 %
Democrat: 8%
Independent 8%
Men: 12%
Women 12%
https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-de ... aseID=2115

As usual, trying to post a table on this site is a hair-tearing-out experience, but if you follow the link and go to question 48, you'll find that while a fairly modest majority of Republicans say that abortion should be "illegal in most cases" or "illegal in all cases" (a combined 54%) another combined 40% say it should be either "legal in all cases" or "legal in most cases"...

So the correct response when one hears the claim that some overwhelming majority of Republicans are in favor of driving women into backroom coat hanger abortions is:

Image

Re: HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:58 pm
by Econoline
  • The GOP's real problem, in terms of passing legislation, isn't that the party can't agree on specifics, or that legislators need to bargain their way toward a compromise that gives everyone something they want. It's that they don't agree on, or in some cases even have, basic goals when it comes to health policy.

Re: HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:28 pm
by Sue U
The GOP certainly has a goal that it's been articulating loudly and continuously for seven years, and that is NOT OBAMACARE!

Never mind that the ACA is expressly based on Heritage Foundation policy proposals and Mitt God-Help-Me Romney's own Massachusetts healthcare program. That's why Republicans are having so much trouble coming up with a replacement: Obamacare was already the Republican model. If Republicans had been smart, they would have voted for Obamacare in 2010 and declared victory. But no, they had to demagogue the issue solely because Obama, and now they're the car-chasing dog that finally caught one by the tire.

So the GOP does have a basic goal. It's just that it's a dumb one that hasn't been thought through past a campaign slogan.

Re: HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:39 pm
by Econoline
Here is the final paragraph of an article at Vox.com which I quoted in another thread:
  • In reality, what I think we’re seeing here is Republicans trying desperately to come up with something that would allow them to repeal and replace Obamacare. This is a compromise of a compromise of a compromise aimed at fulfilling that promise. But “repeal and replace” is a political slogan, not a policy goal. This is a lot of political pain to endure for a bill that won’t improve many peoples’ lives, but will badly hurt millions.

Re: HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:04 pm
by BoSoxGal
I'm grateful I live in Massachusetts.

Re: HEALTH CARE: What's the Big Idea?

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:30 pm
by rubato
What people say their beliefs are and what their actions demonstrate that their beliefs are are different.


Outlawing abortion gives more rights to the fetus than to an existing woman. The state will defend the rights of the fetus against the pregnant woman ( whose risk of death goes up by 10 x) and will prevent the woman from exercising her own rights to defend her life, her health, and her autonomy.


Republican-lockstep states like Texas have moved to reduce access to abortion by their residents because they believe the fetus has more rights than the woman does.


All else is bullshit.



yrs,
rubato