US closed.

[Gob]

Outsider observers would be forgiven for being a little mystified at news that the US is - yet again - days away from a potential government shutdown. What is going on?

When is the deadline?

A spending bill - called an appropriations bill in US political parlance - must be passed by both Houses of Congress and signed by President Donald Trump by midnight on Friday 28 April.

If that does not happen, the federal government effectively closes its doors, although emergency services would continue.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Shut it down.
Of course it's an extra paid vacation for the people who are employed by the feds (although they might have to wait until it reopens to get their paychecks).

[Big RR]

Do you really relish living in a country that cannot even pass a minimal budget to keep its federal services up and running? that closes national monuments, parks, and museums on a whim. and that disrupts the lives of people because Congress and the executive can't even agree on a short term bill to keep the funds flossing? I certainly don't? what possible good can come out of shutting it down? IMHO, this is a staple of the third world, not a country like the US is--or at least used to be.

[oldr_n_wsr]

It's happened before, it will happen again.
Reagan hed a few, HW had one, Clinton had two and Obama had one.
Seems like a right of passage now-a-days.

[Big RR]

A pretty stupid right of passage if you ask me.

[Lord Jim]

Or even rite of passage...

Now that Trump has backed down on getting the money for his wall in this funding bill, it looks like a shut down will be averted...

Apparently he doesn't want his first 100 days in office capped off by a government shutdown on the very day he reaches that milestone...

Though given his overall performance and "achievements" since he took office, there would be something symbolically appropriate about it...

[Scooter]

Shut it down.
Of course it's an extra paid vacation for the people who are employed by the feds (although they might have to wait until it reopens to get their paychecks).

Spoken like a true Trumpanzee. The asshole politicians you chose to vote for have shown themselves incapable of doing their jobs, and you use it as an opportunity to slag federal workers.

[Guinevere]

Shut it down.
Of course it's an extra paid vacation for the people who are employed by the feds (although they might have to wait until it reopens to get their paychecks).

Wow, such utter ignorance. If the government shuts down, my mom won't get her Social Security check that she relies on to pay her monthly expenses. Her doctors won't get paid by Medicare for the services they provide to her. My friends who work at EPA and DOJ will have to rely on their savings to pay their expenses. The federal courts won't shut down, and the staff and the judges will work without getting paid. And oh yeah, most of the civil cases will get delayed. My friends who work at the VA hospital will also probably keep on working without getting paid. Did you know but it's a violation of most state laws to withhold payment for hours worked after more than two weeks. If you do that Massachusetts, the employer is subject to triple damages. But none of the Federal employees who go to work every day during the shutdown will get paid those triple damages, even though it will cost them money, interest, and opportunity to keep on working.

[RayThom]

... Wow, such utter ignorance. If the government shuts down, my mom won't get her Social Security check that she relies on to pay her monthly expenses. Her doctors won't get paid by Medicare for the services they provide to her...

Guin, This sounds more like "Chicken Little" tactics and I'm fairly sure it's not true. Social Security is a mandatory program that continues even if Congress fails to pass a spending bill, and Medicare does not pay out in real time. I've never been effected by a shutdown and I've been on the dole since 2000.

Tell your mom not to worry. I doubt if there will be a shutdown but us old farts will probably feel it less than anyone else if there is one.

[Lord Jim]

If the government shuts down, my mom won't get her Social Security check that she relies on to pay her monthly expenses. Her doctors won't get paid by Medicare for the services they provide to her.

I'm certainly not in favor of a government shutdown, but I'm pretty sure that's not accurate:

What will remain open

Not everything closes during a government shutdown. In 2013, Business Insider noted that 80% of federal employees would still be working, even as the government was closed.

Those who still have to report to work, Business Insider noted, include government workers providing essential services, such as active-duty military and key employees in the Department of Defense (including the FBI and CIA), the Department of Transportation and the Department of Homeland Security. This means airports can remain open in at least a limited capacity, as the TSA and the FAA will continue some of their work.

In 2013, the Guardian noted, though many NASA employees were furloughed as part of the government shutdown, the agency still provided support to those aboard the International Space Station. The National Weather Service and National Hurricane Center also continued to work during the shutdown.

Mandatory government payments will also continue during the shutdown, meaning that Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid payments will be made even if the government is closed. Veterans will also be able to continue receiving services through the Department of Veterans Affairs, which, the Guardian noted, has its health programs approved by Congress a year in advance.

The shutdown won't apply to government agencies whose funds aren't solely appropriated by Congress, Business Insider noted. Most notably, this means the U.S. Post Office will remain open — since they generate revenue through postage fees — and passport offices and Amtrak are likely to continue using their own self-generated funds.

https://mic.com/articles/175025/what-is ... .iBFa2WtyB

[Guinevere]

My understanding is that while the payments are not subject to appropriation, there is no staff working to process those payments. Maybe that's changed in the era of all electronic payments, but I recall their being an issue with the timing of her check in 2013. I suppose it's possible I'm remembering it incorrectly.

[Guinevere]

I know for sure that the FAA is separately funded, because they require re-authorization every five or 10 years. It's authorization was continued to a date in September.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Seems like very few are impacted.
Obligations get paid.
80% of the fed workforce still work.

[Crackpot]

...but don't get paid which gets worse the longer it goes. Not to mention the last (or was it the one before that) they manag d to get the credit of the country downgraded which means we pay more for our debt.

[Lord Jim]

Oldr, there's a very good reason for any fiscal conservative to oppose a government shutdown; it costs money...

A lot of money...

Here's a summary of the analysis of the costs both direct costs to the government (from payments and lost revenue) and indirect costs through the impact on the economy after the 16 day shutdown in 2013, that was done by Standard & Poor (not generally known as a hotbed of bleeding heart liberalism )

Here’s How Much The Government Shutdown Cost The Economy

$24 billion.

That’s according to an estimate from Standard & Poor’s. The financial services company said the shutdown, which ended with a deal late Wednesday night after 16 days, took $24 billion out of the U.S. economy, and reduced projected fourth-quarter GDP growth from 3 percent to 2.4 percent.

Here’s a breakdown of some of the economic cost by our calculations:

About $3.1 billion in lost government services, according to the research firm IHS
$152 million per day in lost travel spending, according to the U.S. Travel Association
$76 million per day lost because of National Parks being shut down, according to the National Park Service
$217 million per day in lost federal and contractor wages in the Washington D.C. metropolitan area alone

Hundreds of thousands of federal workers bore the economic brunt of the shutdown. But small businesses also suffered from frozen government contracts and stalled business loans. Tourism suffered from closed national parks, and military families had to cope without childcare and other services. Federal workers will receive back-pay under the deal, but contractors will probably not get their lost wages. The stall in cash-flow could affect spending during the holiday shopping season.

And with the deal only guaranteeing government funding through Jan. 15, the situation could grow worse. “The short turnaround for politicians to negotiate some sort of lasting deal will likely weigh on consumer confidence, especially among government workers that were furloughed,” Standard & Poor’s said.

[CNN Money]

http://swampland.time.com/2013/10/17/he ... e-economy/

ETA:

Oldr, I'm curious to know what it is that you see as the up-side to a government shutdown...

Because I'm not seeing it...

[ex-khobar Andy]

Shut it down.
Of course it's an extra paid vacation for the people who are employed by the feds (although they might have to wait until it reopens to get their paychecks).

No it isn't. They take the day off (unless of course they are essential in the sense of VA medical folk and NASA people looking after the space station and FAA etc) but they do not get paid for it. If they want to take it as vacation days and get paid eventually of course they can, but it's not in any sense extra days - what they use is just subtracted from the balance owed them. There are those who are fundamentally opposed to govt in all its forms although they are happy to drive on the roads and have their flu shots, and so to them any govt shutdown is seen as a positive. That's like pi in the sky - a surd.

[Lord Jim]

No it isn't. They take the day off (unless of course they are essential in the sense of VA medical folk and NASA people looking after the space station and FAA etc) but they do not get paid for it.

That's not accurate EKA...

(At least it hasn't been with previous government shutdowns, and there's bipartisan support to assure that it wouldn't be the case if one were to happen now.)

You’ll probably still get paid

Federal employees furloughed during the shutdown in 2013 did receive back pay for the 16 days the government remained closed. Congress included a provision in its October 2013 spending bill that reopened the government and authorized that furloughed employees receive “at their regular standard rate of compensation for the period of such lapse in appropriations, as soon as practicable.”

If similar events occur at the end of the week, several congressmen have already said they want to make sure federal employees get paid.

Lawmakers have introduced various pieces of legislation to make sure federal employees receive compensation if furloughed for any period of time where there’s a lapse in appropriations.

Reps. Don Beyer (D-Va.) and Rob Wittman (R-Va.) introduced the Federal Employee Retroactive Pay Fairness Act, which will guarantee that federal employees receive back pay in the event Congress can’t come to an agreement on a funding solution by April 28.

“Federal employees should not suffer because Congress refuses to end its govern-by-crisis mentality,” Wittman said in an April 24 statement. “Preparing the retroactive pay legislation sends a signal to our federal workers that they won’t be forgotten in the unfortunate event of a shutdown. While this legislation minimizes the impacts of funding uncertainty, my focus remains on returning Congress to a regular schedule of budgeting and passing appropriations bills.”

https://federalnewsradio.com/government ... explained/

ETA:

On the other hand, I don't think it's fair to refer to this as an "extra paid vacation" either...

It's not like they can plan for it, and take the family to Yellowstone (Oh wait, they couldn't do that anyway because Yellowstone would be closed)

When this happens, they have no idea when they are going to be called back, and (like the folks who are required to stay on the job) they still wont receive their pay when they would normally expect it, (which can create severe problems for some folks)

A situation where you have no idea how many days you are going to be furloughed from work, and no idea how long it will be before you see the pay from those days, doesn't sound like much of a "vacation" to me...

[ex-khobar Andy]

I stand corrected. My recollection of how these are handled and the effect on the workers is probably from the nineties. AFAIK what I stated (no pay for furloughed employees) was the case then, but is not since 2013. Although I note that, ominously, the relevant paragraph is headed "You'll probably still get paid." (My emphasis.)

[oldr_n_wsr]

Oldr, I'm curious to know what it is that you see as the up-side to a government shutdown...

Because I'm not seeing it...

they can screw things up less?

[wesw]

it all depends on what is deemed "essential" to some extent, I believe......

and it can be handled in different ways.....

Obama admin shut down national parks because most employees weren t deemed essential....

trump admin could deem those same people as non essential and still leave many parks (or seashores) open, albeit unsupervised.

god forbid we trust people to go to the seashore without Big Brother protecting them... (insert big-ass eyeroll here)

I mention this because the last govt shutdown (iirc) ruined a planned weekend at Assateague nat l seashore....

please write all disagreements on a crisp, new 20 dollar bill and forward to me, wesw@the land of pleasant living, or wesw@ eastern shore metropolis

well..., it s happened again....

you ve wasted another perfectly good minute, reading my post.....

my proof reader is... Tristan shout

my typist is.... Martha page

and all replies will be sent by my reply specialist, haling from the great state of florida....

Kissimmee Rear