Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

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Scooter
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Re: Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

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Re: Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

Post by Econoline »

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Lord Jim
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Re: Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

Post by Lord Jim »

About friggin' time...

And most importantly, unlike others, He has apparently agreed to actually honor the subpoena rather than fight it:
Mueller agrees to testify before 2 House committees in July

The House Judiciary and House Intelligence committees have subpoenaed former special counsel Robert Mueller for his testimony before Congress, according to a press release issued Tuesday evening.

"Pursuant to subpoenas issued by the House Judiciary and House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence tonight, Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III has agreed to testify before both committees on July 17 in open session," according to the release.

Mueller is expected to sit before both committees in two separate open hearings on July 17, according to congressional aides
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/mueller ... d=63948189
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Re: Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

Post by Lord Jim »

Mueller to give extended testimony after appearance postponed

Former special counsel Robert Mueller will give extended testimony when he appears before Congress on July 24, one week later than originally anticipated, the Democratic chairmen of the House Judiciary and Intelligence committees announced Friday.

Mueller has agreed to testify for three hours before the Judiciary panel, allowing all members the opportunity to question him. He was previously scheduled to testify July 17 under subpoena, but his appearance was to be limited to approximately two hours per committee, meaning some Judiciary members would not get a chance to ask questions.

"We are pleased to announce that Special Counsel Mueller will provide additional public testimony when he appears before our committees. At his request, we have agreed to postpone the hearing for one week, until July 24, at which time Mr. Mueller will appear in public before the House Judiciary Committee followed by the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence," Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) and Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) said in a statement.

The Judiciary panel will convene at 8:30 a.m. on July 24 to hear Mueller’s testimony on his two-year investigation into Russian interference and potential obstruction of justice by President Trump, the chairmen said. After a brief break, Mueller will testify at noon before the Intelligence panel.

“All members — Democrats and Republicans — of both committees will have a meaningful opportunity to question the Special Counsel in public, and the American people will finally have an opportunity to hear directly from Mr. Mueller about what his investigation uncovered,” Nadler and Schiff said.
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4529 ... appearance

I'm glad they got the agreement for additional public testimony time, but I disagree with the way they are using it...

Rather than provide an additional 60 minutes for the junior committee members (on both sides) to have their five minute preening and speech making opportunities, the public would have been much better served if that time had been allocated to the committee majority and minority counsels for blocks (30 minutes each) of extended questioning...

ETA:

I have to say, I have become extremely disheartened with the glacial pace at which this investigation is unfolding...

To be sure a lot of the blame for this belongs with the Constitution-subverting, on-going obstruction of justice strategy coming from the Trump regime. And I understand the need to establish a record of good faith attempts at getting voluntary cooperation to strengthen their hand when they get to court...

But I see that just yesterday, the HJC finally issued subpoenas for a whole host of witnesses who should have been subpoenaed two months ago. With key witnesses that were subpoenaed earlier, (like Don McGahn) weeks were allowed to elapse between the time those subpoenas were defied and legal action to enforce them was even begun.

And now they're getting ready to lose the whole of August with a month-long recess... :roll:
Last edited by Lord Jim on Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

Post by RayThom »

And then there's this.

Attorney General Barr would rather not have Mueller explaining what his report actually says
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... ally-says/

Is this merely a strong suggestion from Barr, or will it become more like a demand in the next few days? Can our porn star president issue an executive order preventing Mueller from speaking?

I sure hope Mueller can stay healthy between now and then. I'm concerned for his safety.
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Re: Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

Post by Bicycle Bill »

It's the racism.  But it's not just the racism.
It's sex crimes.  But it's not just the sex crimes.
It's the concentration camps.  But it's not just the concentration camps.
It's the corruption.  But it's not just the corruption.
It's being a traitor.

But it's not just being a traitor.  It's the obstruction of justice but it's not just the obstruction of justice.
It's the attacks on rule of law.  But it's not just the attacks on the rule of law.  It's the assault on freedom of the press.
But it's not just the assault on freedom of the press.  It's the pathological lying.

But it's not just the pathological lying.  It's the unfitness for office.  But it's not just the unfitness for office.  It's the incompetence.  But it's not just the incompetence.  It's the attacks on our most important allies and alliances.  But it's not just the attacks on most important allies and alliances.  It's the systematic destruction of our environment.

But it's not just the systematic destruction of our environment.  It's the violation of international treaties and agreements.
But it is not just the violation of international treaties and agreements.  It's the embrace of our enemies.
But it is not just the embrace of our enemies.  It's the defense of murdering dictators but it is not just the defense of murdering dictators.

It is the serial undermining of our national security.  But it is not just the serial undermining of our national security.  It is the nepotism.  But it's not just the nepotism.  It's the attacks on our federal law enforcement and intelligence communities.  But it is not just the attacks on our federal law enforcement and intelligence communities.  It's the fiscal recklessness.  But it's not just the fiscal recklessness.

It's the degradation of the office and of public discourse in America.  But it's not just the degradation of the office and of public discourse in America.  It's the support of Nazis and white supremacists.  But it's not just the support of Nazis and white supremacists.  It's the dead in Puerto Rico and at the border.  But it's not just the dead in Puerto Rico and at the border.

It's turning the US government into a criminal conspiracy to empower and enrich the president and his supporters.
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RayThom
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Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

Post by RayThom »

Bicycle Bill wrote:It's the racism. But it's not just the racism.
It's sex crimes. But it's not just the sex crimes.
It's the concentration camps. But it's not just the concentration camps.
It's the corruption. But it's not just the corruption.
It's being a traitor.
Outside the beltway, I think David Rothkopf said it best. In an open forum you can't be off topic because there IS no topic.
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Re: Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

Post by Crackpot »

What no run up to muller testifying?
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Lord Jim
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Re: Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

Post by Lord Jim »

Well, thus far at least the Democrats questioning has been organized, focused and concise, and they have been drawing out from Mueller exactly what they need from him...

The Republicans have been making themselves look like shills and idiots with no interest in actually doing their jobs...(No surprise there...)

I really like the way Mueller hoisted Barr on his own petard by taking that DOJ letter that was designed to basically stop him from saying anything about the investigation and using it instead to shut down the dishonest GOP rabbit hole "investigate the investigation" questions... :ok
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Re: Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

Post by Burning Petard »

I sat thru the entire Judiciary committee hearing. The GOP and the DEMS seemed to each have a coordinated game plan for once, rather than the usual each congress critter striving to get their own sound bite on the evening news. The GOP seemed to work the same three topics: this was a politically driven investigation; There was no crime by the president; The report did not call for impeachment.

Their own arguments did not hold water. The FBI started this investigation into Russian interference way back when all the experts said Hillary was the winner by a landslide. The report began with the Justice department policy that the president cannot be charged with a crime. And finally as to impeachment, the GOP pounded on the fact that the report never, anywhere, called for impeachment. That ignores the the GOP also pointed out this was a confidential report directly to the Attny Genl, not congress. The Attny Genl and the entire justice department can impeach NOBODY for anything. That is the job of congress.

The DEMS went over the items in the report directly related to obstruction of justice and conspiracy with a foreign power. The points were there, but no good sound bites. The questioner read from the report and Mueller replies, "I stand by the report" Not much for talking heads to exclaim about.

Nothing new. Nobody will be persuaded by these hearings to change their mind--exept Polosi might give a green light to impeachment investigation by congress.

snailgate.

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Re: Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

Post by BoSoxGal »

I watched almost all of judiciary and all of the intelligence hearing - the latter was much better at showing that our president is a threat to our democracy and we are doing nothing thus far to preserve the integrity of the election fast approaching.

I thought Mueller was irreproachable in his conduct under questioning and I hope this works to convince enough people to abandon the Trump delusion.
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Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

Post by RayThom »

BSG, I think we must have watched different Mueller hearings, so here is my takeaway.

As mentioned earlier I have agreed with Pelosi since the Report was released... NO impeachment. Mueller's testimony today was lukewarm at best -- as I expected -- and only bolstered Polosi's assertions for no criminal action against Adolf Twitler at this time.

The only way -- probably the best way -- the Dems are going to oust our porn star president, and we will, is through the ballot box on November 3, 2020.

After January 20, 2021 let the "high crimes and misdemeanors" trial of our EX Grifter-in-Chief begin.

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Re: Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

Post by Big RR »

Ray--I think you're probably right about whether he would be removed from office, but that doesn't mean the House shouldn't investigate. The last thing we need is another silly hearing where the result is all but assured (like with Clinton), but I think Congress could still uncover a lot f the bad acts of Trump and publicize them in a way that Mueller did ot/would not because of the DOJ policy (which I think is BS (IMHO)). The trick is to do the investigation while simultaneously attending to important litigation efforts, but it should be able to be accomplished.

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Re: Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

Post by Econoline »

To add to what Big RR just said: if the House impeached Trump and then McConnell in the Senate refused even to take up the issue (as opposed to holding hearings and then voting not to convict) — and given Yertle's record of obstruction that might actually happen — that would probably turn out to be a plus for the Democrats, both in the Presidential and Senate campaigns.
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Re: Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

Post by Bicycle Bill »

From the Mueller Report hearings (or whateverinthehell they are):

SCHIFF:  Trump and his campaign welcomed and encouraged Russian interference?
MUELLER:  Yes.
SCHIFF:  And then Trump and his campaign lied about it to cover it up?
MUELLER:  Yes.

This alone is enough to impeach the President of the United States.
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Re: Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Is that from the Hearings or from some Tweet/blog thing?

According to the transcript, that's not an accurate "quote" (unless I'm missing something):
Adam Schiff: 00:16:35 Russia committed federal crimes in order to help Donald Trump.

Robert Mueller: 00:16:38 When you’re talking about the computer crimes and the charge in our case, absolutely.

Adam Schiff: 00:16:45 The Trump campaign officials built their strategy, their messaging strategy, around those stolen documents.

Robert Mueller: 00:16:53 Generally, that’s true.

Adam Schiff: 00:16:55 And then they lied to cover it up.

Robert Mueller: 00:16:57 Generally, that’s true.

Adam Schiff: 00:17:00 Thank you.
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Re: Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

Post by Big RR »

Econo--my guess is that, rather than refuse to hold a full trial, the Senate would either have a show trial and acquit (which is kind of like what happened with Clinton because the outcome was pretty clear from the outset--although here the republicans wanted all the evidence brought out on live TV) or would refuse to take testimony and hold a hearing resulting in a summary dismissal (much as a court might do), saying the evidence brought forth by the House was not sufficient to warrant a removal from office. Either way, while still pretty provocative, would not be as blatant as just refusing to hold the trial at all. How the people would react to either (or to any refusal to hold an immediate trial) is the kicker here--and who knows?

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Re: Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

I have to say, I wonder why Trump keeps telling us that the Democrats are doing it all wrong. I know that if my enemies are making a tactical or strategic error, I keep quiet about it.

Maybe he's just thick. Or maybe he's a nice guy who wants to make sure that Democrats don't make a ghastly mistake, like trying to impeach him.

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Re: Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

Post by Guinevere »

Bicycle Bill wrote:From the Mueller Report hearings (or whateverinthehell they are):

SCHIFF:  Trump and his campaign welcomed and encouraged Russian interference?
MUELLER:  Yes.
SCHIFF:  And then Trump and his campaign lied about it to cover it up?
MUELLER:  Yes.

This alone is enough to impeach the President of the United States.
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Re: Bill Of Impeachment: Article I, Obstruction Of Justice

Post by BoSoxGal »

Here is the best analysis I’ve seen on Mueller’s testimony:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politi ... ome-227478


There are a bunch of fuckfaces on both sides of the aisle essentially calling Mueller addled because of his performance at Wednesday’s hearing. I would very much like to beat the living shit out of these morons.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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