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I'm Full Up...
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:08 am
by Lord Jim
I have been a life-long and disciplined member of the Republican Party since I cast my first vote for President Reagan in 1980....(in fact even before then; going back to when I was 12 years old; I was a Nixon fan...)
Since that time, I voted for every single Republican candidate for the Presidency (until 2016);
Some with enthusiasm, (Bush 41, Bob Dole, 1996, Bush 43 in 2000, John McCain in 2008)
And some without a whole lot of enthusiasm...(Bush 43 in 2004, Romney in 2012)
Over the course of the past 40 years or so, even though I have accepted the fact that I have never been a "social conservative" I have never had a problem making common cause with folks who accepted two basic principles;
Low taxes, and a strong national defense...
Beyond those two factors, we can argue...
About those two factors, there can be no argument...
But today, we have a Faux "Republican" "President" who represents none of the values of traditional Republicanism, right-wing, or moderate....
We have a supposed Republican President, who is trying to make common cause with our country's greatest geo-political adversary (can't even bring himself to say a single criticizing word...and this is a guy who has no problem being critical...he can criticize anyone except Vladimir Putin...What's up with that?)
As hardcore as I am, there is a limit to how much I can stand...
If one of these three things happen, and my party does not immediately respond with a full blown impeachment inquiry:
1.Trump fires Mueller
2.Mueller issues a report making clear that if Trump were not President Of The United States , he would have sought an indictment against him or named him an "unindicted co-conspirator"
3.Trump gives pre-emptory Pardons to anyone who could flip on him... Kushner, Flynn, Don Jr., Manafort, (which under the law, he could do)
If any of those three things should happen, and the House Judiciary Committee does not move immediately to begin Impeachment proceedings in response, then I will no longer call myself a Republican, (at least for the time being) and I will support a Democratic Party takeover of the House of Representatives, for the sole purpose of moving Impeachment proceedings against The Mad King...
ETA:
Edited to make clear that I voted for every Republican Presidential nominee from 1980 forward until 2016...
Re: I'm Full Up...
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:54 am
by Guinevere
You're far from the only one. One of my dearest friends, a lifelong R, a high level Bush fundraiser, on the Exec Board of a powerful republican PAC, quit and walked away last summer, after the convention. He's done not only with the Republicans, but with politics as well (although I hope that changes -- we need voices like his and yours).
I suspect that your party will *not* be filing a bill of Impeachment, no matter how bad it gets (and honestly, can it get much worse -- wait, don't answer that). I would be more than happy to have your assistance in flipping the House in 2018.
Re: I'm Full Up...
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:06 pm
by Big RR
Jim--you are a man of integrity; I hope there are many other republicans who feel the same way. Indeed, I suspect there are, just not many of the ones in office.
Re: I'm Full Up...
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:33 pm
by Lord Jim
There comes a point, no matter what your ideological inclinations, where you have to say, "I'm not going to be a political partisan about this; I care about my country"....
Lord knows there's plenty to criticize about Barack Obama, and plenty to criticize about George W. Bush, but whatever mistakes they may have made, only the fiercest of partisans would argue that they weren't decent men trying to do their best for the country as they saw it...
We have a President today, who doesn't give one small shit about the best interests of the country...
We have not had a President in the whole of our history as a country, who is not only as fundamentally unfit to serve in the position he occupies, but also as venal and disinterested in the nation's well being...
This is a man who looked at the toxic and divisive political landscape in 2015 and thought to himself, not "what can I do to try to make this situation better" but rather "how can I exploit this for my own personal advantage"...
This is not a well meaning person making bad decisions; this is a mentally unbalanced person willfully and deliberately trying to undermine the very pillars of our system of self governance...(who also seems to have a strange affinity for a regime that is the number one enemy of this country)
I am appalled and disgusted by the failure of so many in the congressional leadership of my party to stand up and say "Enough. This is not normal, this is not acceptable, and we won't normalize it"....
It's well past time for more than just Lindsey Graham and John McCain to step up...
There comes a point where you're dealing with something that transcends partisanship or political calculation...
And this sick, twisted, venal con artist has brought us to that point...
Re: I'm Full Up...
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:49 pm
by MajGenl.Meade
With you all the way, LJ. It is a national disgrace
Re: I'm Full Up...
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:19 pm
by BoSoxGal
It IS a national disgrace, and the fact that the GOP remains largely silent in the face of every new ugly revelation about this administration has utterly shaken my remaining faith in our system. After a lifetime of following politics, I can't even bear to turn on the TV these days, and it's been months since I listened to NPR. I'm burying my head in the sand; let me know if the GOP ever finds its moral compass.
Re: I'm Full Up...
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:41 pm
by Big RR
I still think the system can work, but when those charged with watching it care more about maintaining their power than anything else (including what they want to do with that power--keeping it is the only thing that matters), it takes a lot to get them moving.
Re: I'm Full Up...
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:22 pm
by Burning Petard
1) Low Taxes, 2 )Strong National Defense.
Let me address 2 first. Strong National Defense. Sure. The problem is in the comparative and superlative forms. Stronger than who, Strongest, more than every one else. But international relations is a hierarchy, a pyramid. Those at the top have the most at risk. Those at the bottom have nothing to lose. As the 'best and brightest' experts discovered in Viet Nam generations ago, it does nothing to bomb them back into the stone age, if they are now and have been managing already in that state for a long time. What good does a fleet of atomic powered and armed subs, massive ICBMs, Stealth bombers do against an amorphous, non-sovereign state entity who bombs New York city and the Pentagon with civilian planes? We have been at war in Afghanistan now for 20 years with no end in sight. How much new weapons and new troops do we need to become stronger than the taliban? Perhaps the strategists in DC need to spend more time reading Kipling rather than Clausewitz.
But "Low Taxes" is the real kicker. The USofA collects less taxes, as a percentage of GNP than 32 other modern developed countries, according to the OECD (Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.) C. Northcote Parkinson in "The Law and the Profit" argued more than fifty years ago that when a nation's taxation exceeded 25%, its economy would go into a death spiral. However, taxes for Sweden and Denmark have been above that for fifty years (more than 40% in 2014) yet their economic growth has been bigger, as a percentage than that of the USofA for that same fifty years. T.R. Reid argues in "A Fine Mess" that the USofA taxation system has been totally revised every 32 years since federal income tax was first imposed. His next 32 year cycle hits in 2018. Reid argues that USofA taxes are not too high, but the taxation system is too complex. Many other countries (even Italy!) Reid argues, collect more taxes with far less cost in time and without extensive tax industry.
snailgate
Re: I'm Full Up...
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:40 pm
by Big RR
I think we have to align our taxes with the services which are received; a big military with all the latest gadgets costs a lot and must be paid for by taxes. Ditto for things lime healthcare, education, providing a social safety net, etc. one reason why the other countries have a higher tax rate (vs GDP) is because the government provides many of these social services and people realize they must be paid for and are willing to do so. A typical US lie is that the vast amount of government spending is due to wastage of the money, but that's pretty silly when we see how much things like our military and foreign policy military adventures cost--we can't fund these by borrowing forever.
Re: I'm Full Up...
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:10 pm
by ex-khobar Andy
Of your three possibilities, LJ, I think #3 is the most likely. I don't see Trump firing Mueller because even he sees how bad the appearance of that would be. (I know, I know - I am assuming some basic level of functioning reason under the yellow helmet. So far the evidence is against me.) And I think Mueller will issue a report which any reasonable person will see as damning but those who voted him in and have some interest such as keeping a job will find some way to paint it as a vindication. We have seen the 'he's just naive in the way WDC works' and the 'nothing happened at that meeting' kind of excuses which are bought by those who do not or will not pay attention.
In employment as a mid-level manager for years, I have seen too many hires who did not pan out as expected. And yet they hang around or are shunted into nothing jobs at vast cost to quality, efficiency and morale because the VP who made the hire cannot bring himself (and most often it's a him) to admit that he made a mistake. If you make a hire or elect someone who does not fit the conventional pattern then you have a personal investment and deciding that you are wrong, and need to do something about it, is much more than a 'whoops.'
Re: I'm Full Up...
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:47 pm
by rubato
The willingness not only of Spicer, Conway, Huckabee and other direct reports to repeat obvious falsehoods but of the entire party is just breathtaking. Although many Senators and Representatives have started changing the subject to avoid telling the truth. But this group has been outright lying about Obamacare, climate change, and the effects of cutting taxes for so long that their dissemblement muscles are pretty bulked up by now.
When did lying and supporting overt liars like Breitbart stop being shameful?
yrs,
rubato
Re: I'm Full Up...
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:04 pm
by rubato
Thee GOP hates democrats and craves power more than they love their country or care for the truth:
Trump donor 'kills himself' after revealing he tried to get Hillary Clinton's emails from Russian hackers
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 40456.html
Hatred of enemies is easier and more intense than love of friends. But from men who
are more anxious to injure opponents than to benefit the world at large no great good
is to be expected.
Lord Bertrand Russell
yrs,
rubato
Re: I'm Full Up...
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:24 pm
by Lord Jim
from men who are more anxious to injure opponents than to benefit the world at large no great good
is to be expected.
Wow rube, that's eerie...
It's as though Russell knew you personally...
Re: I'm Full Up...
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:33 am
by rubato
I've been saying it for a long time. Trump is just the symptom the GOP is the disease.
Opinion | The GOP’s moral rot is the problem, not Donald Trump Jr.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ri ... 660527a319
The key insight from a week of gobsmacking revelations is not that the Russia scandal may finally have an underlying crime but that, as David Brooks suggests, “over the past few generations the Trump family built an enveloping culture that is beyond good and evil.” (Remember when the media collectively oohed and ahhed that, “Say what you will about Donald Trump, but his kids are great!”? Add that to the heap of inane media narratives that helped normalize Trump to the voters.) We now see that, sure enough, the Trump legal team (the fastest-growing segment of the economy) has trouble restraining its clients, explaining away initial, false explanations and preventing self-incriminating statements. (The biggest trouble, of course, is that the president lied that this is all “fake news” and arguably committed obstruction of justice to hide his campaign team’s misdeeds.)
Let me suggest the real problem is not the Trump family, but the GOP. To paraphrase Brooks, “It takes generations to hammer ethical considerations out of a [party’s] mind and to replace them entirely with the ruthless logic of winning and losing.” Again, to borrow from Brooks, beyond partisanship the GOP evidences “no attachment to any external moral truth or ethical code.”
Let’s dispense with the “Democrats are just as bad” defense. First, I don’t much care; we collectively face a party in charge of virtually the entire federal government and the vast majority of statehouses and governorships. It’s that party’s inner moral rot that must concern us for now. Second, it’s simply not true, and saying so reveals the origin of the problem — a “woe is me” sense of victimhood that grossly exaggerates the opposition’s ills and in turn justifies its own egregious political judgments and rhetoric. If the GOP had not become unhinged about the Clintons, would it have rationalized Trump as the lesser of two evils? Only in the crazed bubble of right-wing hysteria does an ethically challenged, moderate Democrat become a threat to Western civilization and Trump the salvation of America.
Indeed, for decades now, demonization — of gays, immigrants, Democrats, the media, feminists, etc. — has been the animating spirit behind much of the right. It has distorted its assessment of reality, giving us anti-immigrant hysteria, promulgating disrespect for the law (how many “respectable” conservatives suggested disregarding the Supreme Court’s decision on gay marriage?), elevating Fox News hosts’ blatantly false propaganda as the counterweight to liberal media bias and preventing serious policy debate. For seven years, the party vilified Obamacare without an accurate assessment of its faults and feasible alternative plans. “Obama bad” or “Clinton bad” became the only credo — leaving the party, as Brooks said of the Trump clan, with “no attachment to any external moral truth or ethical code” — and no coherent policies for governing.
We have always had in our political culture narcissists, ideologues and flimflammers, but it took the 21st-century GOP to put one in the White House. It took elected leaders such as House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) and the Republican National Committee (not to mention its donors and activists) to wave off Trump’s racists attacks on a federal judge, blatant lies about everything from 9/11 to his own involvement in birtherism, replete evidence of disloyalty to America (i.e. Trump’s “Russia first” policies), misogyny, Islamophobia, ongoing potential violations of the Constitution’s emoluments clause (along with a mass of conflicts of interests), firing of an FBI director, and now, evidence that the campaign was willing to enlist a foreign power to defeat Clinton in the presidential election.
Out of its collective sense of victimhood came the GOP’s disdain for not just intellectuals but also intellectualism, science, Economics 101, history and constitutional fidelity. If the Trump children became slaves to money and to their father’s unbridled ego, then the GOP became slaves to its own demons and false narratives. A party that has to deny climate change and insist illegal immigrants are creating a crime wave — because that is what “conservatives” must believe, since liberals do not — is a party that will deny Trump’s complicity in gross misconduct. It’s a party as unfit to govern as Trump is unfit to occupy the White House. It’s not by accident that Trump chose to inhabit the party that has defined itself in opposition to reality and to any “external moral truth or ethical code.”
yrs,
rubato
Re: I'm Full Up...
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:22 am
by ex-khobar Andy
It was Hillary in one of the debates who said that the kids were great. She was put on the spot - say something nice about the Donald - and I'd be hard pressed even then (before we knew what we now know) , although to be honest I did not think that he really was a dumb and crass as he was painted and that it was at least partly an act.
Re: I'm Full Up...
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:20 am
by Joe Guy
Trump's biggest problem is that he thinks he can just lie about anything and get away with it.
Well, that and the fact that he's a deluded lying narcissistic misogynist sociopath.
Re: I'm Full Up...
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:17 pm
by Lord Jim
In all fairness, if we had the exact same publicly known fact set, but the positions of the parties were reversed, (ie the Democrats controlled both houses of Congress and had just retaken the White House after eight years) I doubt very seriously that just six months in we would be seeing legions of Democratic lawmakers lining up to denounce the new Democratic President either...
I think they'd want to cling to the belief that they'd be able to get some of their legislative agenda accomplished too, and hold their noses...(when you've been out of power for a long time and suddenly see yourselves as back in control, that's a very powerful and seductive drug for a politician, regardless of party.)
And while the Republicans in the Hill have disappointed me with the lack of denunciations, it's also true that very few of them are trying to actually defend this mess either...
(Most seem to be either ducking it or saying some version of "This is all being investigated, I'm going to wait till the investigations are complete to comment")
It also should be said that at least on the GOP controlled Senate side, despite the lack of individual senators speaking out, at least the investigatory process seems to be proceeding appropriately with two active bipartisan investigations taking place...
The House is an entirely different matter....
The House Intel Committee investigation still does not seem to have fully recovered from the now recused (supposedly recused; apparently he's still issuing subpoenas) chairman's attempts to completely derail its investigation , and even more importantly, the House Judiciary Committee is in complete Cricket Land...
I'm sure that a lot of the reason for why the House Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte, (R-VA) is treating this whole thing like Kryptonite, is because he is well aware of the fact that his committee is the place where any Impeachment proceedings would begin. But I agree with Jerry Nadler, (there's another one of those once-in-a-lifetime sentences) when he says that the HJC has oversight authority for the FBI and the Justice Department, serious allegations have come to light regarding attempts to obstruct the proper operation of both, and the HJC has an obligation to perform its oversight function by investigating. (If the allegations are serious enough for Chuck Grassley to be conducting an investigation with the SJC, then Goodlatte needs to do his job too.)
If such an investigation winds up evolving into an impeachment inquiry, oh well....