The Cut, Cut, Cut Act!

[BoSoxGal]

Someone had to memorialize that stupidity in a thread title, no?

Thoughts about the GOP tax cut plan that robs from the poor and middle class to give to the rich?

[Bicycle Bill]

Remember the legendary Robin Hood, who supposedly took from the rich to give to the poor?
Maybe they should call it the "Robbin' the 'Hood" Act — taking from the poor to give to the rich.

-"BB"-

[Burning Petard]

It is all still very much written on water. It is clear to me that if the tax credit is wiped out at the bottom, with the new brackets people near the poverty line will be paying more. Like wise the alternate tax for higher incomes is to be killed. More gain for those way above the mean.

snailgate

[BoSoxGal]

Remember the legendary Robin Hood, who supposedly took from the rich to give to the poor?
Maybe they should call it the "Robbin' the 'Hood" Act — taking from the poor to give to the rich.

-"BB"-

See, it’s moments like this I don’t think you’re an asshole at all!

[rubato]

I think they will have a difficult time getting it through the House and Senate. Of course if they do no matter how awful it is Trump will sign it.


yrs,
rubato

[ex-khobar Andy]

I think I will be a couple of grand better off each year because of the tax info I have seen so far. My retirement savings are about 15% up due to the stock market rise since January. So why am I not a Trumpist?

Maybe there is that first word in the phrase 'enlightened self interest.'

Or maybe I can see through this bunch of assholes. Sarah Huckabee Sanders goes higher (lower?) on that list every time I watch one of those press happenings she stages.

[BoSoxGal]

[Econoline]

[Jarlaxle]

From what I've seen, it's a clusterfuck.

Though I think I would actually make out pretty well.

[Econoline]

From Forbes. Yes, Forbes:

• GOP Tax Bill Is The End Of All Economic Sanity In Washington
  Stan Collender | NOV 19, 2017 @ 07:00 AM

No doubt many of you read the above headline and immediately started to tweet that the GOP tax bill can't be the end of economic sanity in Washington because there never was any to begin with.

I have two responses.

First...please do tweet that, and link to this post when you do.

Second...you're wrong. If it's enacted, the GOP tax cut now working its way through Congress will be the start of a decades-long economic policy disaster unlike any other that has occurred in American history.

There's no economic justification whatsoever for a tax cut at this time. U.S. GDP is growing, unemployment is close to 4 percent (below what is commonly considered "full employment"), corporate profits are at record levels and stock markets are soaring. It makes no sense to add any federal government-induced stimulus to all this private sector-caused economic activity, let alone a tax cut as big as this one.

This is actually the ideal time for Washington to be doing the opposite. But by damning the economic torpedoes and moving full-speed ahead, House and Senate Republicans and the Trump White House are setting up the U.S. for the modern-day analog of the inflation-producing guns-and-butter economic policy of the Vietnam era. The GOP tax bill will increase the federal deficit by $2 trillion or more over the next decade (the official estimates of $1.5 trillion hide the real amount with a witches brew of gimmicks and outright lies) that, unless all the rules have changed, is virtually certain to result in inflation and much higher interest rates than would otherwise occur.

The GOP's insanity is compounded by its moving ahead without having any idea of what this policy will actually do to the economy. The debates in the Ways and Means and Senate Finance Committees and on the House floor all took place before the Congressional Budget Office's analysis and, if it really exists, the constantly-promised-but-never-seen report from the Treasury on the economics of this tax bill.

Meanwhile, Congress has ignored other estimates like this one from the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School showing that the tax bill won't do what the GOP is promising.

In other words, the GOP tax bill may be enacted without anyone who votes for it having any understanding of the damage it could do to the economy. They have wishes, hopes and prayers but in reality nothing beyond the economic equivalent of pagan superstition.

On top of everything else, there is no reason to rush this debate as the GOP is doing. Given that it's not really needed, a bill that is enacted next January or February will make as much economic sense as one signed into law by the end of this December. The must-do-it-by-Christmas deadline Trump has imposed is completely artificial and nonsensical.

The real economic insanity of the GOP's tax bill will be felt in future years. Consider the following:

• The $1 trillion a year budget deficit will not be the result of cyclical changes that will be reversed when the economy improves. These will be permanent structural deficit increases.
• The tax hikes that will be needed to resolve the structural imbalance between federal spending and revenues will be impossible for political reasons.
• Whenever the U.S. economy grows more slowly than expected or there's a downturn, an annual deficit of $2 trillion could easily become the norm.
• The federal government will have far less ability to respond to economic downturns unless previously unimaginable and politically intolerable deficits, tax increases or spending cuts suddenly become acceptable.
• Reduce the national debt? As they say in New York, fuhgeddaboudit, at least in the next decade.
• Much more national debt plus rising interest rates means interest on the national debt will be the fastest growing part of the federal budget.
• Without massive cuts in Social Security, Medicare and the Pentagon, it won't be possible to reduce federal spending enough to do more than tweak the deficit.
• Washington's ability to invest in anything new that will improve the economy (think infrastructure, education and medical research) will be far less given the already-high deficits.
• Even though the limits to monetary policy became obvious the past few years, the Federal Reserve will be the major economic policy maker in Washington over the next decade.

In other words, if the GOP tax bill is enacted, Congress and the president this year will give up almost all ability to deal with the U.S. economy for at least a decade even when, as almost certainly will happen, there's a downturn. No one else will be able to fulfill this role.

That's almost a textbook definition of economic insanity.

[Big RR]

sounds like what Clinton said in 1993 when he proposed to raise taxes (of course that reasoning didn't last all that long--1997 wasn't all that far behind). And, of course some people believe you just can't cut taxes enough. And some, like Trump, just want at least one win by year's end, however idiotic it is.

[Lord Jim]

Here's a link to a good breakdown of where Senate Republicans stand on the current bill, and what their individual concerns are. (It will be updated when positions change.):

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... bZw6ch5Wht

[BoSoxGal]

I cannot understand how any Senator could support that bill or explain it to her constituents as being in the best interests of the country - it is truly a vile redistribution of wealth to the wealthiest among us, and to corporations already taking in record profits.

I’d like to think Susan Collins wouldn’t support this. Hopefully Jeff Flake will use the freedom of his lame duck status to vote against it. Fingers crossed Murkowski or one of the others refuses to fuck their constituents by voting for this shit show.

[rubato]

You can't blame the tax bill on Trump; it's a pure Republican con job. Reagan explodes the deficit with tax cuts for the rich, G W Bush takes an annual surplus and turns it into a deficit with tax cuts for the rich, and now the GOP congress and senate are poised to outdo them both. Their theory is that the road to paradise is paved with the sufferings and death of the poor and middle class.

I am dumbstruck that any party has enough stupid people to vote for this kind of catastrophe.

yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

The one positive thing in the bill is limiting the mortgage interest exemption to $500,000. On the whole the mortgage interest exemption just distorts real estate markets and inflates prices while giving ever-larger tax breaks to the richest. When people buy real estate the number they care about isn't the sale price it is how much it will cost them in pre-tax income. the MI exemption artificially distorts this number so they will pay a higher net price.

The goal of promoting home ownership is laudable but the brute fact is that if you are in the 35% (fed) bracket you are getting a wholly different benefit when you buy the same property as someone in the 25% bracket.

yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

As bad as this bill is by itself the GOP think it needs to be made still worse by gutting Social Security and medicare:


http://theweek.com/speedreads/740454/go ... y-medicare

GOP senator says tax cuts must be followed by 'structural changes to Social Security and Medicare'
2:57 a.m. ET


Senate Republicans started the clock for a final vote on their tax plan Wednesday evening, but among the unresolved demands from GOP waverers is a provision to prevent the bill from adding up to $1.5 trillion to the federal deficit over 10 years. No serious analysis has suggested the growth from slashing taxes for corporations and other businesses would make up that shortfall, and Republicans haven't offered any evidence. At a Politico Playbook forum on Wednesday, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) said that cutting taxes needs to be followed by cutting spending on popular federal programs.

"I analyze this very differently than most," Rubio said. "Many argue that you can't cut taxes because it will drive up the deficit. But we have to do two things. We have to generate economic growth which generates revenue, while reducing spending. That will mean instituting structural changes to Social Security and Medicare for the future." He suggested reducing benefits and raising the retirement age for future retirees, so people can prepare for the changes. "Tax reform is the economic component of this equation," Rubio said. "When more people are working, there are more taxpayers and more revenue, but that alone won't be enough. You are still going to have a debt problem in the absence of spending cuts." ... "

Notice how he packs in the hoary lie that cutting taxes actually increases revenue. A claim even their own economists have refuted for 20 years.

yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

WASHINGTON — The Senate Republican tax bill, which had appeared to be cruising to victory, suffered a setback late on Thursday as lawmakers were forced to contemplate significant changes, including future tax increases, to help pay for the legislation.

The bill had gained momentum in the morning when it picked up a key swing vote. But it came to a grinding, if temporary, halt, as senators scrambled in the early evening to find ways to raise several hundred billion dollars after some members objected to moving forward without a plan to safeguard against ballooning the deficit.

Lawmakers are now considering alternatives, including reinstating the alternative minimum tax on some corporations and wealthy individuals, and raising the corporate rate above 20 percent after some number of years. A final vote on the bill is expected on Friday after a series of amendments are considered.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/us/p ... ssage.html

[Guinevere]

https://www.jct.gov/publications.html?f ... &no_html=1

JCT estimates Senate bill would increase deficits by $1 trillion even after accounting for effects on growth, and that growth effects would be even smaller or negative in future decades. So much for fiscal accountability or this “tax cut” paying for itself....

Just a reminder that this is the scoring approach the GOP has demanded for 40 years. This is the standard by which the GOP has insisted that fiscal legislation should be judged. And the result is a larger increase in the deficit than Obama’s 2009 stimulus bill.

[Guinevere]

Blame the Senate Parliamentarian, too (and thank god for her, again):

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... x-cut.html

[Guinevere]

What a shameful act the GOP pulled in the Senate today. So much for the greatest deliberative body on earth. Yurtle and his minions wouldn’t even hold the vote until Monday and let the Democrats or Americans read the hand written marginalia all over the almost 500 page bill (written mostly by lobbyists, not shared with Democrats until it was time to vote). Because if we read it, the push back would be even stronger, of course.

Whatever you think about the substance, this is now how to make substantive law, or “reform” something as complex as the tax code.

I’m sickened.