Plan B Forum

Really do appreciate the co-mingled seating and hope the spirit continues.

And hey look, who is that with Tim Geithner??

Although I find the obvious red and blue ties quite amusing. Can't quite give it up, can they?

Meh. Bams has sold out and is now delivering the Republican talking points. But hooray for our gay Muslin troops, anyway. To misquote Joe Biden, a big fuckin disappointment.

Guinevere wrote:Although I find the obvious red and blue ties quite amusing. Can't quite give it up, can they?

It's a wonder Barry couldn't find himself a blue-and-red-striped tie. For the troops!

Honestly, I fell sound asleep and when I woke up at 10 and he was still rambling on, I went to bed. Meh at best.

I find it quite disturbing that he is able to spout utter nonsense and blatant lies while sounding so plausible and reasonable.

Where else but Gub'mint could you have someone talking about a spending "freeze" that will result in "painful cuts"?

In other words, even though inflation is approximately zero, the intractable annual cost increases inherent in running the government behemoth will result in having to cut some "frills" in order not to spend more each year than the just finished one.

I was a bit disappointed at the Republican message, which was long on inarguable concepts but short on specifics. I thought Ryan's claim to fame was that he is willing to be specific.

Someone has to say it: His image was saved by the Tuscan Shooting; that was a brilliant memorial speech and many were wooed by it, and he knew to ride on that emotional wave with this address.

His aging appearance also makes him appear 'Grandfatherly'. Can you argue with your Gran'po?

Listening to Barack I was reminded that he really is the best person to be president.

Boehner looked like he was passing peach pits. Very amusing.

yrs,
rubato

Best person to be president? That is, indeed, scary. Maybe best of those present at the speech, but if Obama is the best the US can muster, I have serious concerns for our longevity as a country.

rube says Barry is the "best person to be president."

That says it all.

Big RR wrote:Best person to be president? That is, indeed, scary. Maybe best of those present at the speech, but if Obama is the best the US can muster, I have serious concerns for our longevity as a country.

Best of those who ran, I agree. I can't imagine McCain as President, with Palin one heart attack away from the office. *Shudder*

Absolutely the best (or the least bad) of those who ran in the last election (at least those I am aware of), but I cannot imagine he is the best qualified person in the country.

I would posit that the best qualified people to be President are smart enough to not want the job.

I couldn't agree more, bsg

That's pretty sad though, isn't it?

bigskygal wrote:I would posit that the best qualified people to be President are smart enough to not want the job.

Someone who does not want the job could never begin do it.


yrs,
rubato

Big RR wrote:That's pretty sad though, isn't it?

No.

He's very good.

If you ranked real-world presidents on articulateness, intelligence, vision, ability to reach across the aisle, and perhaps most important of all, understanding where the 'tipping point' was between what you would like and what is possible, his record is really very good.

I'm proud of us for electing a black man as president because he really is the best person for the job. Nobody even slightly in the running is as good.

McCain was a weaselly pussy when it came down to it. He abandoned every single principle which had made him a 'maverick' in the Republican party solely to suck ass to BushCo. Hilary is not his equal.

yrs,
rubato

Intersting how you say McCain abandoned his principles while obama reached across the aisle and understands the "tipping point". Personally, I think he shows some promise, but his handling of healthcare is a pretty good example of how he abandoned principles just to get a bill passed, not caring how lousy the bill was and what its ultimate effect might be. Sure he was abetter choice than McCain, but I haven't seen a lot of results from him. I will give him credit for the last deal brokered with congress, but I'm not expecting all that much.

bigskygal wrote:I would posit that the best qualified people to be President are smart enough to not want the job.

I know you're making a joke, but that's a glib and facile thing to say that I suspect many believe is actually true. Lots of jobs come with hassles and headaches and public scrutiny -- president more than most -- and being willing to put up with them is part of the qualifications necessary for the position. Would you also say, for example, that those best qualified to be on the Supreme Court are smart enough to not want the job?

I'm not crazy about the way Obama has handled his presidency; he has made some serious missteps and squandered a lot of political capital. But the alternative clearly would have been far worse. He is at least competent, thoughtful, intelligent and forthright, which is a refreshing change. But our governmental system does not operate according to those qualities, let alone reward them. It may be that our system needs a fundamental overhaul in both structure and process. It may be that the U.S. is too large an entity with too many people holding fundamentally incompatible views of government to continue operating as a single entity. Greater empires have collapsed under similar stresses. It may be time to look seriously at planning for alternative arrangements rather than having chaotic change thrust upon us.

Sue U wrote:It may be that our system needs a fundamental overhaul in both structure and process. It may be that the U.S. is too large an entity with too many people holding fundamentally incompatible views of government to continue operating as a single entity. Greater empires have collapsed under similar stresses. It may be time to look seriously at planning for alternative arrangements rather than having chaotic change thrust upon us.

Bingo.

It has become fashionable to decry accusations of unpatriotism. And to a substantial degree, that is a sound viewpoint. But it sensibly goes only so far. For me to disagree with the editorial positions of the Wall Street Journal (or for a conservative to disagree with the editorial positions of the New York Times) is one thing, and such disputes can be resolved (though not frictionlessly) without recourse to accusations that those on the other side do not love America.

But what about the Westboro Baptist Church? What about the inhabitants of towns such as Elgin, Oregon, where, as I have mentioned before, simply being homosexual puts one at risk (if anyone there finds out) of being beaten or even murdered? What about the people, of whom there are apparently millions, who want to censor books -- on one side, proposing to ban The Wizard of Oz because it includes "good witches" (and the Bible says that all witches are bad), and on the other side, proposing to ban Huckleberry Finn because it includes the word "nigger"?

(For that matter, there are also the people who think that all private property should confiscated and made the subject of collective ownership implemented by the government, but they are so few these days that we can safely lump them in with the people who think that we should be devoting our energies to preparing ourselves for the coming of the extraterrestrial aliens who are riding the tail of some nearby comet.)

It is one thing to think that the recently enacted health-care-reform law is bad policy; it is quite another to think that it is deliberately evil and that its supporters are in the thrall of Satan. It is one thing to think that fortifying the US-Mexico border is bad policy; it is quite another to think that the US southwest is an occupied territory of Mexico and that supporters of fortifying the US-Mexico border are instruments of imperialism.

"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold ...."

It may be that the extremists love America as much as I and most of us do. But if so, they love an America very different from the America to which my devotion attaches. And I see no way of reconciling their conception of America with mine.

Perhaps it is time -- perhaps it is long past time -- for the US to divide itself into several separate nations. In my opinion, that result is coming sooner or later, and I would far rather see it brought about by civilized discussion, negotiation, and compromise than by another bloody civil war.