You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

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BoSoxGal
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by BoSoxGal »

I agree that we are descending into fascism, and the fault lies squarely at the feet of the GOP.

Interesting opening piece to Fahreed Zakaria’s GPS program this week - if you watch only one hour of mainstream fake news per week, this should be it - he’s highly intelligent and actually quite unbiased in his analysis of the news and policy, too.

He has a recent column that discusses the same points:
WHY AMERICAN CONSERVATISM FAILED

Today’s crisis of conservatism has produced surprisingly few books that try to understand what exactly has happened to the venerable creed. For decades, conservatism was a dominant ideology in the Western world, championed by Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan. Now, it has quietly collapsed. President Trump’s populism has taken over the Republican Party, and Brexit fever has consumed Britain’s Conservative leaders.

Into this muddle comes George F. Will’s “The Conservative Sensibility.” I have long admired Will, who embodies the ideal of thoughtful, learned conservatism. When I was in college, he was already a fixture of U.S. political and intellectual life — a columnist for The Post, a regular commentator on Sunday morning television and the author of several books. As the editor of an undergraduate publication, I summoned the courage to write to Will asking for an interview, to which he agreed. That was 35 years ago, and since then my admiration and respect have remained undimmed. Thus, I picked up “The Conservative Sensibility” with great anticipation.

The book, as one might expect, is deeply erudite, filled with examples from history and illuminating quotations from politicians and poets. Will has attempted to outline the basic features of his creed. American conservatism, Will announces, has almost nothing to do with European conservatism, “which is descended from, and often is still tainted by, throne-and-altar, blood-and-soil nostalgia, irrationality, and tribalism.” He paraphrases Thatcher in observing that “European nations were made by history, the United States was made by philosophy.” American conservatism, then, is a project that seeks to defend the original philosophy of the Founding Fathers: classical liberalism, which promotes limited government and the veneration of individual liberty.

The counterpoint to this tradition, Will argues, is progressivism, the philosophy articulated by Woodrow Wilson and most capably enacted by Franklin D. Roosevelt. Born during the industrialization of the country after the Civil War, progressivism sees society as requiring collective action undertaken by government, which can best enable individuals to flourish economically, politically and morally. This tradition, for Will, has eroded the ideals of the American founding, enervated the spirit of America and created a country that is less free, less self-reliant and poised for economic stagnation.

But the problem for Will and for modern conservatism is that, as progressivism rose in the 20th century, the United States became the most powerful, productive and dynamic nation in the world. Indeed, after the New Deal came the astonishing American boom of the 1950s and 1960s. After the Great Society came the information revolution, which the United States has dominated more than any other nation. The fact remains that in 2019, the United States is one of the most free, dynamic and innovative countries on the planet. If that is the result of a century of progressive policies, maybe we need more?

The fundamental flaw of modern conservatism is that it is unsure whether America today is a fallen republic or an astonishing success story. This confusion has produced a political crisis among conservatives, which might help explain the rise of Trump.

Ever since the 1930s, conservatives have been promising their flock the rollback of the progressive agenda. They have warned about the dangers of leaving the welfare state intact and pilloried conservative leaders for failing in this crucial task. Yet, despite the Reagan revolution, the Newt Gingrich revolution and the tea party revolution, the welfare state is still standing as strong as ever. Republicans dominate almost every arena of U.S. politics — and the state is bigger than ever. Should we chalk this up to incompetence? More likely, conservatives know that the public actually wants the welfare state and that a modern country could not function today under some libertarian fantasy experiment. Of course, they will never admit this.

In any case, the result is that conservative leaders left their base permanently aggrieved, feeling betrayed and distrustful of any new campaign promises. In recent years, as the fever grew, conservative voters became desperate for someone who had not played this game of bait-and-switch with them. And into this rage walked Trump, who easily toppled the old conservative establishment and rode the frustration with elites all the way to the White House.

Will has written a fascinating book. But at its heart is the same saga of a lost utopia that has crippled modern conservatism and damaged U.S. politics. Will describes himself as “an amiable, low-voltage atheist.” Well, then he surely knows that there never really was a Garden of Eden.

(c) 2019, Washington Post Writers Group
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Sue U
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by Sue U »

That was a nice summation by Zakaria, but or course it is a perspective I agree with. I would be interested to see Lord Jim's reaction to it, particularly since he is so firmly in the George Will call.
GAH!

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Sue U
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by Sue U »

ex-khobar Andy wrote:Sue - (four or five posts up from here) - I've taken a day to digest what you wrote, and you're right. I've been reluctant to use the f-word because most of my generation, who came of age in the tumult of the sixties, were too quick to call those who disagreed with us 'fascists.' The word lost its meaning, and we need to remind ourselves how Hitler and Mussolini came to power. Both won elections with at least a veneer of legitimacy but they used fake news and manufactured crises (the Reichstag fire, the Corfu Incident) to consolidate power.
Like you, I do not use the word "fascist" lightly, and I try to use it accurately. I like to think that I am not generally given to hysteria or panic, preferring the mantra "this too shall pass." But I find myself more and more frequently considering the question, "How will I know when it's time to go?" I have a not-distant family history of failing to make that determination in time.
GAH!

Big RR
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by Big RR »

But go where? A good number of countries have assholes at the helm.

Burning Petard
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by Burning Petard »

Go where? New Zealand. Aussies are good but too any critters there who want to kill you.

snailgate

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Scooter
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by Scooter »

Wait until October before thinking about coming up here, lest we collectively fall victim to our own version of Trump mania.
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wesw
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by wesw »

panic.

ask y0urself why.

panic?

hmmmmm.

strange.

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Lord Jim
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by Lord Jim »

I believe I have posted positively about Fahreed Zakaria’s show in the past...

I agree that he is highly intelligent, but on most issues he also certainly has a definite mainstream liberal POV...

So I wouldn't call him "unbiased" but he also brings other intelligent and knowledgeable folks to the table for his discussions that represent a wide range of views, (one of his regular guests is former Ambassador Richard Haas, who would make an outstanding Secretary of State for a normal Republican President) which makes his show one the most thought-provoking public affairs programs on television, and I highly recommend it. I watch it nearly every Sunday.

Having not read Will's book yet, I don't think it would be appropriate for me to attempt to opine on Zakaria’s critique of it, but regarding the article posted:

(Oh, before I get to that, I see that Fahreed describes Will as the author of "several books"...Well, okay, if your idea of "several" is fifteen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Will )

I think Zakaria makes some valid points in the article, but my overall criticism would be that he generalizes too broadly about "conservatives". One example:
conservatives know that the public actually wants the welfare state and that a modern country could not function today under some libertarian fantasy experiment. Of course, they will never admit this.
I'm sorry, but I know for a fact that there are many conservatives, (including George Will, and any others but the radical Randian bunch) who would certainly acknowledge that many aspects of "the welfare state" are popular with the public and are here to stay. They are not "libertarian fantasists"...

Also, the construction of modern conservatism as being nothing more than the effort to roll back 20th century "progressiveism" is way to simplistic...

At least since the 1950s, much of the thoughtful brand of conservatism has been about proposing private sector and private sector/public sector partnership alternatives for addressing many of the problems that "the welfare state" attempts to tackle... The Heritage Foundation, (to name just one, until it's sorrowful takeover by the radicals a few years ago) used to dedicate a lot of its work and some of the country's best conservative thinkers to these efforts.)
In any case, the result is that conservative leaders left their base permanently aggrieved, feeling betrayed and distrustful of any new campaign promises. In recent years, as the fever grew, conservative voters became desperate for someone who had not played this game of bait-and-switch with them. And into this rage walked Trump, who easily toppled the old conservative establishment and rode the frustration with elites all the way to the White House.
That again is waaay to simple a construction...It's true but very incomplete...

Trump didn't just exploit a conservative base that was "permanently aggrieved, feeling betrayed and distrustful of any new campaign promises" or that was tired of "bait-and-switch"...

He exploited those feelings among Democratic and independent voters as well...

Trump didn't run as a pure conservative, (he ran promising universal healthcare coverage that would be "better and cheaper" then Obamacare, he ran promising not to touch any entitlement programs, he ran promising to rip up trade agreements and pursue protectionist trade policies...)

Presumably none of the several million people who had voted twice for Barack Obama and then turned around and voted for Donald Trump were part of the aggrieved "conservative" base Zakaria refers to...

All of that having been said, the central assertion that contemporary conservatism is in crisis today is undoubtedly correct, (for more complex reasons than Zakaria references) and Trump and the phenomena of Trumpism is playing a prominent (though not singular) role in that crisis...

(More on that later)
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Scooter
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by Scooter »

Trump Showed Off A Fake Hurricane Dorian Forecast Map To Support His False Claim It Would Hit Alabama

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President Trump on Wednesday displayed a Hurricane Dorian forecast map that appeared to have been doctored to falsely show the powerful storm was on track to hit Alabama.

Trump showed off the map in the Oval Office after falsely stating in a tweet Sunday that Alabama was among the several states expected to face impacts from the hurricane, raising the ire of meteorologists and government forecasters.

About 20 minutes after Trump’s tweet Sunday, the National Weather Service office in Birmingham took the unusual step of tweeting that “Alabama will NOT see any impacts from #Dorian.”

James Spann, a renowned broadcast meteorologist in Alabama, also hit back at the president’s false claim, tweeting, “Alabama will not be impacted by Dorian in any way.”

“I have zero interest in politics. Dorian will not affect Alabama in any way. That is not a political statement,” Spann said in a tweet.

Trump’s tweet was later fact-checked by Jonathan Karl on ABC World News, prompting the president to lash out at the reporter, calling it a “phony hurricane report by [a] lightweight reporter.” Trump went on to claim — without citing any sources and contrary to his own government’s forecast — that “under certain original scenarios, it was in fact correct that Alabama could have received some ‘hurt.’”

On Wednesday, Trump doubled down on the false claim, displaying a map that appeared to have been marked up with a Sharpie to show the hurricane’s trajectory extending into southeastern Alabama.

Spokespeople for the White House and National Weather Service did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

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Under federal law, it is illegal to pass off a doctored National Weather Service forecast as official, weather journalist Dennis Mersereau pointed out.

“Whoever knowingly issues or publishes any counterfeit weather forecast or warning of weather conditions falsely representing such forecast or warning to have been issued or published by the Weather Bureau, United States Signal Service, or other branch of the Government service, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ninety days, or both,” the law states.

After Trump displayed the altered forecast Wednesday, a White House reporter asked him about the map, saying “it looked like someone took a Sharpie....,” the Washington Post reported.

“I don’t know. I don’t know,” Trump reportedly replied, repeating the false claim that Alabama was in the storm’s path.
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Bicycle Bill
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by Bicycle Bill »

“I don’t know.  I don’t know,” Trump reportedly replied, repeating the false claim that Alabama was in the storm’s path.
If the first half of that sentence is an actual quote, then that is probably one of the only true statements Trump has made in the last two and a half years.
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Joe Guy
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by Joe Guy »

Somebody should tell Trump that Alabama isn't in Florida.

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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Sharpiegate. You read it here first.

And of course in three days time there will be some rain (0.01") in Mobile. And Trump will say: "See? I was right!"

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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Too late. I just went to Google with 'sharpiegate' which I thought I had just invented; and there are 1340 results.

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You really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by RayThom »

ex-khobar Andy wrote:Too late. I just went to Google with 'sharpiegate' which I thought I had just invented; and there are 1340 results.
What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun, nor
on the world wide web.
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“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.” 

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Lord Jim
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by Lord Jim »

I wish wes would stop by to explain how this shows how brilliant Trump is...
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Scooter
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by Scooter »

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"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu."

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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

:lol: :lol: :lol: Scooter
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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BoSoxGal
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by BoSoxGal »

Oh yeah, sharpiegate here. I lose track of what I’ve read where online. Anyway some funny sharpiegate memes circulating online now.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Priceless!
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Scooter
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by Scooter »

ROIFLMAO!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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