You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Quite right too; she's misquoting there. Phew!

But we're not safe after all. . . Isaiah 65:17 ESV (Extra Special Version)

“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind"

That's what I call climate change
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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RayThom
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You really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by RayThom »

As for me, I NEVER argue with anyone about their fundamentalist beliefs regardless how ignorant and/or stupid they may be.
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BoSoxGal
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Re: You really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by BoSoxGal »

RayThom wrote:As for me, I NEVER argue with anyone about their fundamentalist beliefs regardless how ignorant and/or stupid they may be.
Why bother? You can’t reason with crazy.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: You really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by Bicycle Bill »

BoSoxGal wrote:
RayThom wrote:As for me, I NEVER argue with anyone about their fundamentalist beliefs regardless how ignorant and/or stupid they may be.
Why bother? You can’t reason with crazy.
OK, you two, I can see where you would view anyone who would believe in a god who would submerge the entire planet up to the very top of Mt. Everest underneath water as retribution and punishment as "crazy", and maybe that part of the story is a bit over the top.  But when you consider that a "flood myth" is found in cultures in every quadrant of the world dating back to the Bronze Age and Neolithic Era, maybe there is a germ of truth in it?  How else do you explain so many cultures in so many locations coming up with what is in effect the same story of a deity cleansing the earth by causing a flood that devastated the land and permitted the rebirth of (at least in the eyes of the chronicler) a better, more deserving society?

As an attorney, BSG, you know that when one person tells a story, that's all it is — a story.  But when a dozen or more people, all of whom were in different locations, all tell the same story, a reasonable person would be right to assume that this now starts to move from the realm of storytelling into something more like a preponderance of evidence.
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Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?

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RayThom
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You really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by RayThom »

Bicycle Bill wrote:
BoSoxGal wrote:
RayThom wrote:As for me, I NEVER argue with anyone about their fundamentalist beliefs regardless how ignorant and/or stupid they may be.
Why bother? You can’t reason with crazy.
OK, you two, I can see where you would view anyone who would believe in a god who would submerge the entire planet up to the very top of Mt. Everest underneath water as retribution and punishment as "crazy", and maybe that part of the story is a bit over the top.  But when you consider that a "flood myth" is found in cultures in every quadrant of the world dating back to the Bronze Age and Neolithic Era, maybe there is a germ of truth in it?  How else do you explain so many cultures in so many locations coming up with what is in effect the same story of a deity cleansing the earth by causing a flood that devastated the land and permitted the rebirth of (at least in the eyes of the chronicler) a better, more deserving society?

As an attorney, BSG, you know that when one person tells a story, that's all it is — a story.  But when a dozen or more people, all of whom were in different locations, all tell the same story, a reasonable person would be right to assume that this now starts to move from the realm of storytelling into something more like a preponderance of evidence.
BB, no argument here. If this is what you fundamentally believe to be true then that's fine with me.

Live, and let live.
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Lord Jim
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by Lord Jim »

Liz Cheney Blames Turkey’s Invasion of Syria on Democrats’ Impeachment Inquiry

During a Fox & Friends appearance on Monday morning, Rep. Liz Cheney (R-WY) suggested that Turkey’s invasion of Syria and attack on America’s Kurdish allies was tied to Democrats launching an impeachment inquiry against President Donald Trump.

The Wyoming congresswoman and co-host Brian Kilmeade, both of whom have been critical of Trump’s decision to pull back American troops and abandon the Kurds ahead of Turkey’s invasion, expressed their concerns that ISIS could return to the area and the United States’ reputation among its allies will suffer.

Cheney, meanwhile, took the opportunity to lay blame at House Democrats’ feet for pursuing impeachment against Trump over the Ukraine scandal.

“I’m very concerned about it, Brian,” she said. “I think that what we’re seeing happen is going to have ramifications not just in the Middle East but around the world. If our adversaries begin to seek weakness, if our adversaries begin to think we won’t defend our allies, that we won’t defend our interests, that’s provocative.” [Well you managed to get that part right...]

Cheney continued: “But I also want to say that the impeachment proceedings that are going on and what the Democrats are doing themselves to try to weaken this president is part of this.”

After Kilmeade agreed with Cheney, the Republican lawmaker added that it “was not an accident that the Turks chose this moment to roll across the border.” [It sure wasn't; it was chosen precisely because of Trump's disgraceful troop withdrawal, you friggin' mo-ron... :loon ]

“And I think the Democrats have got to pay very careful attention to the damage that they’re doing with the impeachment proceedings,” she concluded.

One of the most hawkish members of Congress, the House Republican Conference chairwoman has attempted to straddle a fine line when it comes to criticizing the president’s foreign policy while simultaneously kissing up to Trump. Just last month, Cheney found herself in a “butt-kissing” spat with Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY), with the two of them fighting over Trump’s attention.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/liz-chene ... nt-inquiry

I think Trump facilitated this massive humanitarian and national security debacle out of pure personal political desperation; in the belief that this ignorant feckless withdrawal would play well with the ignorant neo-isolationists in in his base...

I think he believes ( a lot of the shameful and sickening comments I'm hearing him make about this today would seem to support this view) that mindlessly withdrawing US troops from anywhere in the world (regardless of the disastrous consequences for both the local population or and our national interests) will be politically popular and help improve his support against Impeachment...

I believe that he has miscalculated....
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BoSoxGal
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Re: You really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by BoSoxGal »

RayThom wrote: BB, no argument here. If this is what you fundamentally believe to be true then that's fine with me.

Live, and let live.
And the very problem with most of the world’s major religions is that they do not subscribe to this philosophy - but rather they persecute and/or slaughter those who don’t believe as they do.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

rubato
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by rubato »

Liz Cheney fell out of the crazy tree and hit every branch on the way down.

On the other hand she only has to convince Republicans who are not known for requiring a cogent mechanism to believe something is true.


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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by Big RR »

And the very problem with most of the world’s major religions is that they do not subscribe to this philosophy - but rather they persecute and/or slaughter those who don’t believe as they do.
Not just religions, people in general.

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Re: You really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by rubato »

Bicycle Bill wrote:[  But when you consider that a "flood myth" is found in cultures in every quadrant of the world dating back to the Bronze Age and Neolithic Era, maybe there is a germ of truth in it?

A claim often made but never supported by evidence. Did the Maya and Aztecs have a flood myth? The Inuits? Plains Indians? Sub Saharan Africa? I have only heard examples from areas in the middle east.


The claim of a global flood "to the top of Everest" is physically impossible so the origin must have been a much smaller and more local event exaggerated for effect like myths generally are.


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Big RR
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by Big RR »

Are there actually claims about the flood going to the top of Everest? The highest I have heard is the summit of Mount Ararat, which is around 11,000 feet high, or a little more than a third of the height of Everest (not that this makes the story any more likely).
Last edited by Big RR on Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: You really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by rubato »

BoSoxGal wrote:
And the very problem with most of the world’s major religions is that they do not subscribe to this philosophy - but rather they persecute and/or slaughter those who don’t believe as they do.

Killing people for what they believe is mostly a Christian thing more recently taught to Muslims.

Many religions punish people for what they do, violate religious taboos for example, but Christians invented the conceit they could punish false belief. And often claim they are required to do so.


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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by rubato »

Big RR wrote:Are there actually claims about the flood going to the top of Everest? The highest I have heard is the summit of Mount Ararat, which is around 11,000 feet high, or a little more than a third of the height of Everest.

Even that much requires a quantity of water which does not exist on Earth. If all ice melted oceans would only rise about 216 feet. But fundamentalists often assert the more extreme claim.

My recently deceased 94 year old auntie was shocked to hear this and, I think, refused to believe it until her death.

yrs,
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Re: You really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by rubato »

Bicycle Bill wrote:…   But when a dozen or more people, all of whom were in different locations, all tell the same story, a reasonable person would be right to assume that this now starts to move from the realm of storytelling into something more like a preponderance of evidence.
… "
Or as people who believe in the reality of the physical world and the universality of physical laws say; "That's bullshit on toast".


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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

In the late nineties a theory was published (I read the original in Marine Geology* 1997 - I just looked it up - because I had access to scientific literature in those days) which postulated that the Black Sea was the result of a flood around 5000BC. The Black Sea was then an inland freshwater lake more or less the Great Lakes with a geologic barrier between it and the Mediterranean. Something caused that barrier to breach plus seawater level rise and in less than a year it became what it is now. This could explain the persistence of Noah-type flood myths from that time. I recall it was pretty convincing.

*Ryan, W. B. F.; Pitman, W. C.; Major, C. O.; Shimkus, K.; Moskalenko, V.; Jones, G. A.; Dimitrov, P.; Gorür, N.; Sakinç, M. (1997). "An abrupt drowning of the Black Sea shelf" . Marine Geology. 138 (1–2): 119–126.

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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by rubato »

ex-khobar Andy wrote:In the late nineties a theory was published (I read the original in Marine Geology* 1997 - I just looked it up - because I had access to scientific literature in those days) which postulated that the Black Sea was the result of a flood around 5000BC. The Black Sea was then an inland freshwater lake more or less the Great Lakes with a geologic barrier between it and the Mediterranean. Something caused that barrier to breach plus seawater level rise and in less than a year it became what it is now. This could explain the persistence of Noah-type flood myths from that time. I recall it was pretty convincing.

*Ryan, W. B. F.; Pitman, W. C.; Major, C. O.; Shimkus, K.; Moskalenko, V.; Jones, G. A.; Dimitrov, P.; Gorür, N.; Sakinç, M. (1997). "An abrupt drowning of the Black Sea shelf" . Marine Geology. 138 (1–2): 119–126.

I heard that theory and I agree it is pretty compelling.

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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by Burning Petard »

The last several posts remind me of a characteristic of good archives that make them so much fun--you can find anything. Such as 'respectable' science journals proposing all kinds of things like both the 'hollow earth' and the 'flat earth' theory or that the geological arrangement at Gibralter once closed off the Atlantic and the area between Modern Southern Europe and Modern Northern Africa was mostly dry land.

Nothing is unimaginable and the mind of someone has probably managed to get it published somewhere.

Now anybody can do it on the internet and readers like Liberty will believe it.

snailgate.

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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by Econoline »

Another "You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up" news story...

Ken Starr Tells Fox News No Impeachable Offenses From Trump, Unlike Bill Clinton

:loon :roll: :evil:
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Post by Lord Jim »

(posted in wrong thread; moved)
Last edited by Lord Jim on Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

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"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu."

-- Author unknown

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