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No more working class
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:10 pm
by Gob
I do a podcast called Another Europe Is Possible, and this week we recorded an episode with the sociologist Brendan McGeever talking about the politics of a nation in decline. He said, en passant, “the white working class is a fallacy”. It wasn’t the standard complaint of recent years, namely: “Why do people always bang on about the white working class whenever they want to spirit up some soft nationalism or deliver some uncomfortable ‘truth’ about benefits?” McGeever made his assertion as an objective fact: white working class is a sociologically meaningless term. Not in the sense that there are no working-class people who are white, just in the sense that, since society has been multiracial, which is to say, for decades, the working class has been multiracial. There is no distinct category of working-class people who are white and face fundamentally different structural conditions from working-class people who are not white, which is what class is supposed to be about.
That doesn’t mean there has never been any race-based division within the working class, though it’s weird to single this class out, when the upper class is most feverishly protective, racially, of its institutions. Why do we never say “white upper class”? It’s taken for granted that they are white. Which suggests that they are much more monocultural, and by design, than the class in which the lust for a monoculture is supposed to be a giant dirty secret. Why is there no “white middle class”? Because it would be considered racist to draw conclusions about people’s attitudes and beliefs, via their colour, in the middle class, where everybody is obviously completely normal.
The only logical reason to differentiate within a class by skin colour is if you want to talk about the element that doesn’t like mixing with other ethnicities. But then “white working class” would mean “racist working class”. Anyway, to do that, you would have to ask the white working class its actual opinion, which the people who talk about them tend not to do. Who knows, they might not all think the same thing. Better to demarcate by employment status and GCSE results (these are also the key metrics of the “left-behind”, which is, again, racially coded: you are never “left-behind”, if you are black).
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... tereotypes
A classic example of how the UK left is losing it's way.....
Re: No more working class
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:06 pm
by Crackpot
What are you getting at here Gob? Your commentary and the text don’t seem to match up.
Re: No more working class
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:46 pm
by Gob
In what way?
Re: No more working class
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:10 pm
by Crackpot
They appear to be non-sequitor. What issue do you take? What problem do you see? The article seems to be pointing out that “white working-class” is a largely meaningless descriptor mainly used to dog-whistle some other meaning depending on the political leanings of the speaker.
None of which has much bearing on “the left in the UK” or its ability to keep it.
Re: No more working class
Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:35 am
by Gob
The article makes a great number of unsupported, and I believe utter bollocks, assertions to back up it's claims;
"Why do we never say “white upper class”? It’s taken for granted that they are white. "
"Why is there no “white middle class”? Because it would be considered racist to draw conclusions about people’s attitudes and beliefs, via their colour, in the middle class, where everybody is obviously completely normal."
"The only logical reason to differentiate within a class by skin colour is if you want to talk about the element that doesn’t like mixing with other ethnicities."
It carries on to draw a load more nonsense conclusions.
Re: No more working class
Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:03 am
by Crackpot
I think they have a point other such descriptors aren’t used in general parlance for the very reason that “WWC” is nothing but a dog whistle to talk about something else and also to scapegoat that behavior on the “WWC”.
It just strikes me as odd that an article directly addressing the rampant misuse of the “WWC” moniker would raise your ire.
It seems to me that you’ve (understandably) got so fed up with the abuse of the “WWC” label that you’ve got triggered by a piece that is stating “we are abusing the term “WWC””.
Re: No more working class
Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:00 pm
by Gob
What I have got fed up with is middle-class-wankers like Zoe Williams (educated at the independent Godolphin and Latymer School girls' school and read Modern History at Lincoln College, Oxford,) who has never met, let alone worked with, a working class person, deciding we are all racist, and if we're not we do not exist.
Re: No more working class
Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:55 pm
by Long Run
Gob, you've made a mistake and put this thread in the wrong category -- you have failed to make this topic about the current U.S. president.
Re: No more working class
Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:58 pm
by MajGenl.Meade
Furthermore, isn't it journos and pols who use the term "white working class"?
Do they read the Grauniad and do they care?
I don't think the working class uses the term "white working class" in any sentence. Perhaps because they isn't so litrate as hwat journilistes is.
PS LR - did you not notice the repeated use of "racist"?
Re: No more working class
Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:42 pm
by Scooter
Gob wrote:What I have got fed up with is middle-class-wankers like Zoe Williams (educated at the independent Godolphin and Latymer School girls' school and read Modern History at Lincoln College, Oxford,) who has never met, let alone worked with, a working class person, deciding we are all racist, and if we're not we do not exist.
She is not saying anything remotely like that, but you misunderstood her point when you read it the first time and I doubt anything anyone says is going to move you away from your misinterpretation at this point so I will leave it there.