Election 2020

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Joe Guy
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Re: Election 2020

Post by Joe Guy »

Sue U wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:04 pm
Why do you say that? Can you give some examples of what you mean? I didn't know anything about Harris until she was elected Senator and I saw her speak at the Women's March in DC three years ago. What I have seen since I have found quite impressive. I'm genuinely curious to know why you dislike her so much.
I decided I didn't like her when she was running for president. The first I learned about her was that she got her introduction into politics while dating Willie Brown, who is 30 years older than her and very well connected. Maybe she was in love, I don't know. This September article covers a lot of what I've heard about her. It's not all negative. I decided early on that I didn't like her so I haven't followed her since she dropped out of the race.

Also, I think the fact that Harris is from California makes her not the best choice to help widen Biden's appeal to voters in other parts of the country.

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Election 2020

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Ho hum. How does one see a Facebook Bernie ad? No such thing on my Hum Page. Or on Google either AFAIK. Is it because I'm so far away?
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Lord Jim
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Re: Election 2020

Post by Lord Jim »

This kind of surprised me:
Tulsi Gabbard ends 2020 campaign and endorses Joe Biden

(CNN)Hawaii Rep. Tulsi Gabbard on Thursday ended her presidential campaign and endorsed former Vice President Joe Biden.
"I know Vice President Biden and his wife and am grateful to have called his son Beau, who also served in the National Guard, a friend," Gabbard said in a statement. "Although I may not agree with the Vice President on every issue, I know that he has a good heart and is motivated by his love for our country and the American people."
Gabbard had backed Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders in 2016.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/19/politics ... index.html

Wes must be crest-fallen to see his girlfriend endorsing Biden (I thought she might have been hanging in to lay the ground work for making a bid for the Green Party nomination...)


I thought the author's conclusion in this analysis was pretty good:
Bernie Sanders, the Man Who Couldn’t Change in the Face of Pandemic

Yesterday morning, the Bernie Sanders presidential campaign sent an e-mail to supporters declaring that after the vote on a coronavirus response, “Bernie and Jane are going to get on a plane back to Vermont. Once there, they’ll begin holding conversations with supporters to get input and assess the path forward for our campaign. We will keep you updated as those conversations progress.”

Axios reported that Sanders was suspending his campaign, then retracted that report. The Sanders campaign was merely suspending Facebook ads. Yesterday the Vermont senator got a little snippy with reporters asking if his campaign would continue: “I’m dealing with a f—ing global crisis. And you’re asking me these questions. Right now, I’m trying to do my best to make sure that we don’t have an economic meltdown and that people don’t die.”

As of this writing, it appears Sanders is not inclined to drop out of the presidential race. Some of his supporters want him to stay in.

But the senator’s comment to the reporters was unintentionally revealing. With a contagious virus spreading across the country and the economy in free fall amid unparalleled uncertainty, the Democratic presidential primary just doesn’t feel all that important right now. And if Bernie Sanders can’t make his presidential campaign a priority right now . . . how many Americans can? Because of various states’ postponing their presidential primaries, no one is counting any ballots until Alaska, Hawaii, and Wyoming do on April 4. If the Democratic primary feels forgotten and irrelevant today, how will things feel after another two weeks of pandemic coverage?

As noted yesterday, getting voters together at polling places undermines the effort at “social distancing” that the CDC recommends. If Sanders (and Tulsi Gabbard (UPDATE, see below)) quit the race, postponing all remaining presidential primaries until June or so would be a no-brainer.
13

Each passing day, Bernie Sanders reveals more about himself and what he truly values. The man who insisted we had to put the interests of society as a whole over our own personal desires and ambitions never really meant to include himself. He wanted everyone in America to sacrifice in the name of fighting wealth disparity, fighting climate change, fighting social injustice, and so on. But when push came to shove, he wouldn’t even sacrifice his no-hope campaign in the face of the coronavirus pandemic.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/b ... -pandemic/

(Yes, National Review is a conservative publication, but like Bill Kristol's Weekly Standard, it's writers and editors are no fans of Donald Trump)
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Guinevere
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Re: Election 2020

Post by Guinevere »

Whoever thought that Tulsi would do the right thing before Bernie. I certainly didn’t.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Sue U
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Re: Election 2020

Post by Sue U »

Pardon me if I take National Review's assessment of Bernie Sanders with a giant boulder of salt.
GAH!

Big RR
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Re: Election 2020

Post by Big RR »

I agree, but I also would not like Bernie to drop out at this point as he frames the debate more to the left than Biden would like; it will help frame the ultimate platform, at the convention, to have at least some progressive planks. Holding Biden's feet to the fire is a useful contribution IMHO.
Last edited by Big RR on Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sue U
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Re: Election 2020

Post by Sue U »

I agree, BigRR; there's no rush for Bernie to do anything right now other than to plan for bringing his followers into the Democratic Party's campaign -- which is necessary planning both for Sanders and Biden. The way to do that is obviously by getting Biden and the party to adopt some of Sanders's policies and positions. With further primaries likely delayed til June at least, there is ample opportunity for negotiations between the camps now. Sanders knows he's not going to be the nominee or Veep, and he knows that going to the convention just to make noise and cause trouble is not going to advance anyone's cause.
GAH!

Big RR
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Re: Election 2020

Post by Big RR »

That makes a lot of sense; Bernie is a seasoned politician who can read the tea leaves as well anyone. Hopefully, he will tone down the rhetoric some, and the Bidne Campaign will make some changes to try and court Bernie's supporters as I seriously doubt they can win without them.

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Crackpot
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Re: Election 2020

Post by Crackpot »

You forget Sanders is an ideologue and has major issues with compromise
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Lord Jim
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Re: Election 2020

Post by Lord Jim »

Sue U wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:55 pm
Pardon me if I take National Review's assessment of Bernie Sanders with a giant boulder of salt.
Well, I find the author's conclusion spot on...

In my view Sanders is a self-righteous left-wing demagogue on an ego trip...

He relishes playing the role of some sort of Moses, and is in love with the sound of his own voice almost as much as Trump...

Biden needs to take care in how far he goes to placate the losing candidate lest he alienate the more centrist elements of the 2018 electoral coalition, without whose support he will not defeat Trump...

If Sanders first priority was truly to defeat Trump he would realize this and act accordingly.
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Big RR
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Re: Election 2020

Post by Big RR »

Perhaps, but that's a double edged sword; the dems have taken the progressive wing for granted for a long time, and these voters will be needed if Trump is to be defeated. I'm not the biggest fan of Nernie personally, but I support many of his policies; and any attempt to blunt his influence/ignore those policies (like in the last election) might well tip the balance (at least in the electoral college, which is the only place it really matters) in Trump's favor again. Most voters will be more than willing to support the dems candidate against Trump, but if the dems are seen as ignoring their concerns, some may just stay home. Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face? Maybe, but I can appreciate the anger of those disenfranchised by a DNC which purports to "know better"; hell, isn't that how the republicans got Trump?

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Econoline
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Re: Election 2020

Post by Econoline »

Unfortunately, at this point I think getting the Bernie-or-Bust crowd to vote for Biden (rather than sitting out the election [again] or voting for a third party [again] or even voting for Trump to spite the evil "DNC establishment" [again]) will be a bigger problem than getting anti-Trump Republicans to vote for Biden.
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
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Big RR
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Re: Election 2020

Post by Big RR »

While I am not certain, I don't see that reaction yet; but it could well come. It's really going to be a tightrope walk for Biden, but personally I wouldn't blithely dismiss most of the Bernie supporters at this point unelss we really want "four more years". Certainly, let's court the moderate republicans, but let's not ignore the base supporters.

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Guinevere
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Re: Election 2020

Post by Guinevere »

Why does the Democratic Party have to be held hostage to the cultish supporters of a non-Democrat, who (the supporters) have already proven they are willing to throw the baby into the fire if they don’t get what they want - and fuck all the seniors, women, gays, trans, any racial minority, and more who have been the targets of Trumpanzee racism, ageism, sexism, and incomeism.

I disagree that these people are “the base.” But please, convince me otherwise.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

Big RR
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Re: Election 2020

Post by Big RR »

Well Guin, I am not defending Bernie or his cult, but a lot of his policies are not that out of line with what used to be the traditional democratic party politics--things like workers rights, support of the people rather than corporations, universal healthcare, etc. And IMHO a significant swath of the democratic party supported these rights. Of course, more moderate democrats like Carter and Bill Clinton changed this, especiallially after Newt Gaingrich, and the democratic party began to court the middle and ignore that portion of the party, assuming they would go along rather than vote for the more right leaning republican. People got tired of it, and the last election showed us what happened when some stayed home.

The democratic party has to be a bigger tent and take some of these policies into account--IMHO it is not enough to just be "not Trump". In the last 20 or so years we've seen the candidate losing the popular vote still winning in the electoral college--we cannot afford to, and should not, dismiss Bernie supporters if we want to get rid of Trump. I'm not saying these people are right in squandering their vote (especially given Trump and how horrendous he is), but I can understand their refusal to support a party that dismisses them as irritants; socialism has always been a part of the progressive wing of the democratic party and it should not be ignored.

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Crackpot
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Re: Election 2020

Post by Crackpot »

The sad truth is people like Bernie for the same reason they like Trump they both say things they like and will back them regardless of the reality of the situation. Just because on the whole the proposals of one seem more reasonable doesn’t change the fact that they are both spouting dogma and not reality.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Sue U
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Re: Election 2020

Post by Sue U »

As I have said repeatedly, this election is not about national polls or courting some mythical moderate Republican. This election is strictly about generating Democratic voter turnout in three states -- Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin -- sufficient to overcome the 77,000 votes that won the electoral college for Trump last time. And at even a more basic level, that means getting out the vote in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Flint, Milwaukee and Green Bay. That's what it all comes down to. If moderate Republicans who dislike Trump simply stay home and Democrats can get more voters to the polls in those six cities, Trump will be out. Bernie supporters will be especially critical to Michigan, so they need to be given a reason to vote for Biden.
GAH!

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Crackpot
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Re: Election 2020

Post by Crackpot »

Nope not in Michigan he lost soundly to Biden and the calculus is far different than last election
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Econoline
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Re: Election 2020

Post by Econoline »

Bernie got over 36% in the Michigan primary last week, and the Democrats can't win Michigan in November unless those votes go to Biden.
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

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Crackpot
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Re: Election 2020

Post by Crackpot »

The state is far more pragmatic than you think and a hell of a lot more centrist. Shifting left for the sake of shifting left will hurt Biden in Michigan far more than it will help
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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