Is Germany cozying up to Russia?

[liberty]

I know that is this going to be a waste of time I would do better to encourage my grandchildren to learn Russian.
If you cowards are going to let your fear of Russian nukes control you we might as well start surrender negotiations with the Russian now. We are in this fix because Obama is a cowardly son of a bitch. Do you think it might be time for American and western volunteers to fight the Russians in Ukraine? Oh what a stupid question where would they come from ANTIFA. Do you really think a boycotted will work? How well did it work with CUBA?

And for the record I love Putin he is great man and I have always loved him ever since the day I was born. And my family has always loved him.



http://theweek.com/articles/544692/germ ... ing-russia

As everyone now knows, Russia is slowly invading and annexing parts of Ukraine, which could have very serious ramifications in terms of the West's credibility in protecting smaller states from the orbit of authoritarian tyrannies like Putin's Russia.
Now, Russia keeps pretending that the whole Ukraine fiasco is an internal affair started by rebels, and that Russia itself has no involvement. Ukraine and the U.S. have produced voluminous evidence to the contrary. No one believes Russia. (Heck, bald-faced, bravado-fueled lying is a great Communist tradition.) Except that maybe Germany believes Russia.
Last week, Germany became the only noteworthy country besides Russia to disagree with the U.S. government over the extent of Russia's involvement in Ukraine. More broadly, Germany has been striking a more dovish tone than the rest of the EU and the U.S. about Russia's involvement in Ukraine, even as Chancellor Angela Merkel calls on the EU to keep the sanctions pressure on Russia.
Overall, this is a big problem.
Given that Russia has nukes, one of the very few available options for containment is through economic sanctions. But for economic sanctions to work — and financial sanctions in particular — countries have to present a united front.

[Lord Jim]

More broadly, Germany has been striking a more dovish tone than the rest of the EU and the U.S. about Russia's involvement in Ukraine

Really...

Has Germany been suggesting that we recognize the Russian annexation of Crimea? (As our President has.)

Did The German Chancellor equate Putin's murder of political opponents with US troops carrying out lawful orders in a war zone? (As our President has.)

Did the German Chancellor suggest letting Russia back into the G-7 despite no improvement in Russian behavior? (As our President has.)

Did the German Chancellor try to shutdown an investigation into her collusion with Russia and then brag to the Russian Foreign Minister that this would make it easier for him to remove sanctions on Russia? (As our President did.)

Did the German Chancellor fight tooth and nail against additional sanctions and then only agree to accept them when her legislature passed them by such a huge margin tha there was nothing she could do about it, and even then only implement them half-assed and after a long delay? (Like our President did.)

Did the German Chancellor stand publicly next to Vladimir Putin and declare that she believed his claims over the unanimous conclusions of her country's intelligence services? (As our President did.)

I'm not surprised if you were unaware of all of these facts lib; afterall, you're the one who bragged about how little attention you pay to what Trump is up to...

we might as well start surrender negotiations with the Russian now.

Sorry lib, but you're tardy to the party on that one...

Surrender negociations with Russia have been going on since January 20th 2017...

At this point, we need to stop and reverse the surrender process that Trump has already initiated ...

[Lord Jim]

We are in this fix because Obama is a cowardly son of a bitch.

Well, I am certainly not going to offer any praise or defense for Obama's dealings with Vladimir Putin...


It's pretty much a long, uninterrupted list of fuck ups as far as I'm concerned, starting within months of his taking office when he unilaterally cancelled the missile defense system slated to be deployed in Eastern Europe, right straight through the fall of 2016 when he had his Administration sit on the information they had about Russian interference in the election and he bizarrely concluded that the "best" way to get Putin to cease and desist was to tell him privately to, "knock it off"...

It wasn't until the very closing days of his Administration, after the election, that he at long last began exhibiting anything like the resolve he should have been showing all along...

That having been said, there is however, one HUGE difference between Obama and Trump...

As bad as his decisions were, I never for one moment doubted (and I still do not) that they were born of sincere (albeit badly mistaken) belief that the decisions he was making were in the best interest of his country...

There is ZERO evidence to suggest otherwise...

This is a presumption that is impossible to extend to Trump, since all the available evidence suggests that his decision making process regarding US policy towards Putin and Russia (or anything else for that matter) doesn't even have "what would be in the best interests of the United States" on the radar screen...

Barack Obama's mistakes regarding Putin sprung from naivete and wishful thinking; Trump's behavior springs from an obvious servility to Putin and a willingness to subordinate US interests to those of Russia...

NO comparison...

I remember a few years ago, after a meeting between Putin and Obama, I posted a picture of the two of them together next to a picture of Hitler and Neville Chamberlain standing together...

The appropriate photo to post next to a photo of Trump's meeting with Putin would be this one:



Lib, the man on the left in that picture is Vidkun Quisling...

If you don't know who that is, look him up....

Neville Chamberlain would be an improvement...


ETA:

When I think of Obama's dealings with Putin's Russia, the phrase "terrible judgement" is what comes to mind...

When I think of Trump's the first word I think of is "treasonous"...

[Sue U]

The appropriate photo to post next to a photo of Trump's meeting with Putin would be this one:

Oh, I don't know about that; I think this one is just as suitable:

[Lord Jim]

Yeah, I guess that one works too...

[Guinevere]

The model for McConnell, Ryan, and the Vichy republicans . . . . .

[Burning Petard]

"And for the record I love Putin he is great man and I have always loved him ever since the day I was born. And my family has always loved him. "

A real head scratcher. How does one get from that position to selecting a nom de plume of 'Liberty'?

snailgate.

[dales]

Mental Illness

[liberty]

"And for the record I love Putin he is great man and I have always loved him ever since the day I was born. And my family has always loved him. "

A real head scratcher. How does one get from that position to selecting a nom de plume of 'Liberty'?

snailgate.

It appears that Jim got it and you didn’t that must mean that conservatives are smarter than liberals. Read the book 1984. Winston loved Big Brother Winston had always loved Big Brother. As a liberal, I suspect that you don’t believe in hell and I also suspect Putin can change your mind and make you a believer. You had better win or learn to love Putin. Do you get it now?

[Econoline]

I'm curious why you think your grandchildren should learn Russian rather than Mandarin Chinese. China has 10 times the population, 10 times the available military manpower, 3 times the military budget, 3 times the active-duty military personnel, 8 times the GDP compared to Russia...and, probably most important, 18 times the population density. (Russia has only about 22 people per square mile—compared to 376 for China and 92 for the U.S.—so why would the Russians be the ones looking for more Lebensraum???)

[liberty]

I'm curious why you think your grandchildren should learn Russian rather than Mandarin Chinese. China has 10 times the population, 10 times the available military manpower, 3 times the military budget, 3 times the active-duty military personnel, 8 times the GDP compared to Russia...and, probably most important, 18 times the population density. (Russia has only about 22 people per square mile—compared to 376 for China and 92 for the U.S.—so why would the Russians be the ones looking for more Lebensraum???)

Since I trust your integrity I won’t trouble myself with the data you presented; needless to say China would be a more formidable opponent than Russia and not necessarily because the size of their population but the quality of their people. However, with China we have an advantage we don’t have with Russia; we have a large ocean between us and China and as long as we have a superior air force and navy we are fairly safe. If the time comes where their air force and navy is as good as or better than ours we would have no choice but to use nukes. The use of strategic nukes in the open ocean may contaminate sea food for some time, but if that was all we had we would have to use them. We could not allow a large Chinese force to reach the American mainland; we would lose the land battle for sure.

If we must have foreign master we would be much better off with Russia as our overlord than China. It is always better to have as much in common with your master as possible.

[Lord Jim]

However, with China we have an advantage we don’t have with Russia; we have a large ocean between us and China and as long as we have a superior air force and navy we are fairly safe. If the time comes where their air force and navy is as good as or better than ours we would have no choice but to use nukes.

Lib, I think this would be a really good investment of three minutes of your time....

When it comes to naval power, and naval air power between the US and Russia or China, there ain't no comparison:



And for another 3 minute investment, you can become knowledgeable about the relative strengths of the US and Russian Air Forces...(again, ain't no comparison)

If we must have foreign master we would be much better off with Russia as our overlord than China. It is always better to have as much in common with your master as possible.

Regarding that "have as much in common with" bit....

Your take on that couldn't possibly have something to do with the fact that Russia is a predominantly "white" country while China, well, isn't, could it?

(You needn't answer that...It was a rhetorical question... )

Personally, you can mark me down as being adamantly opposed to accepting a "foreign master" of any hue...

Fortunately, we are maintaining the kind of military and economic power that makes such an acceptance completely unnecessary...

Now we just need to do something about the President who seeks to make US interests subordinate to Russian interests despite all the power we have...

[liberty]

]



Personally, you can mark me down as being adamantly opposed to accepting a "foreign master" of any hue...

..

What do mean by hue? Chinese and other mongoloid peoples are not yellow. I am sure you know that but for the sake of others I say this: Their skin color is like that of Caucasians; those in the north tend to have lighter skin than those in the south, Just like Caucasians.

I have lived in both Japan and Okinawa. On Okinawa, I could see the difference between the Japanese and the ethic Okinawans. The Japanese were lot lighter in skin color. And there were not many ethic Okinawans; I suspect before long they will disappear.

[Bicycle Bill]

"And for the record I love Putin he is great man and I have always loved him ever since the day I was born. And my family has always loved him. "

A real head scratcher. How does one get from that position to selecting a nom de plume of 'Liberty'?

snailgate.

Maybe he's paying homage to another guy named 'Liberty' .... this one.



And for the record, this one was an asshole too.

-"BB"-

[Lord Jim]

]



Personally, you can mark me down as being adamantly opposed to accepting a "foreign master" of any hue...

..

What do mean by hue? Chinese and other mongoloid peoples are not yellow...

Nice that you picked up on that one sentence lib...

(I thought it was self-explanatory; just a pithy way of saying I won't accept any "foreign masters" no matter where they come from...)

Any possibility that you had a chance to check out the naval and air force stats I posted, (the main point of my post) that completely demolish the idea that we are in a militarily inferior position to the Russians?

[MajGenl.Meade]

LJ, have a bit of lib's reply to Econo; it may be helpful:

I won’t trouble myself with the data you presented

[Big RR]

[Burning Petard]

"I won’t trouble myself with the data you presented"

I see this so much these days. For me it goes back to that business advice to prepare everything for a presentation during an elevator ride between floors. Perhaps it is a natural response to the information overload in the last couple of decades described in Jim Wright's latest 'Stone Kettle Station' blog. Analysis of the data is just too much trouble; ignore it.

snailgate

[RayThom]

"I won’t trouble myself with the data you presented"

That sounds like something Sarah Sandbagger Huckleberry says at many White House press briefings. And then adds, "you'll have to talk to the president's lawyers for clarification."

[liberty]

I trust and respect Eccono I don’t think he would lie or distort the truth. I see no reason to verify his data especially since familiar with quit a bit of it already.