To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

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Lord Jim
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To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Lord Jim »

That is the really stupid question:
Trump is abruptly threatening to veto the spending bill and force a government shutdown over the border wall

President Donald Trump signaled he may veto a short-term funding bill over the legislation's lack of funding for a wall along the US-Mexico border, possibly pushing the federal government into a shutdown.

In a tweet Thursday, Trump seemed to express dissatisfaction with the Congress' current course of action: a clean, short-term funding bill, known as a continuing resolution, or CR. It would keep the government open until February 8. It includes no funding for the border wall.

"When I begrudgingly signed the Omnibus Bill, I was promised the Wall and Border Security by leadership," Trump said. "Would be done by end of year (NOW). It didn't happen! We foolishly fight for Border Security for other countries - but not for our beloved U.S.A. Not good!"

White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders subsequently said Trump would meet with House Republican members later Thursday.

"At this moment, the President does not want to go further without border security, which includes steel slats or a wall. The President is continuing to weigh his options," she said.

The CR is the result of a month of contentious negotiations over the shutdown deadline, with Trump demanding $5 billion in wall funding while Democrats would only offer $1.6 billion in general border security funds. The stopgap bill passed the Senate on Wednesday and a vote in the House is expected on Thursday, but sudden rumblings of a Trump veto could delay those plans.

The president has a long history of grumbling about funding fights, including calls for a "good" government shutdown.

If Trump does veto the bill, it would almost ensure the federal government would enter a partial shutdown at the end of Friday. According to congressional research, 800,000 federal employees would either be forced to work without pay or be furloughed in the event of a shutdown.

Given the risks and the potential political disaster of forcing a shutdown just days before Christmas, Trump appeared to support the CR on Wednesday. But Trump has received mounting pressure from conservatives and other allies.

The current funding fight is more consequential for Trump than previous confrontations since the incoming Democratic House majority likely means there will be almost zero chance for border-wall funding over the next two years. Trump threatened on Thursday to stymie all Democratic legislation if they do not provide funding for the wall.

This is almost an exact replay of what happened earlier when Trump had struck a deal to exchange a 10 year extension on DACA for border wall funding.

"The Democrats, who know Steel Slats (Wall) are necessary for Border Security, are putting politics over Country," he tweeted. "What they are just beginning to realize is that I will not sign any of their legislation, including infrastructure, ["If they don't give me my wall, I'll let all the bridges fall down! That'll show 'em!" :loon ]unless it has perfect Border Security. U.S.A. WINS!"

A slew of hardline conservatives have called for the president to veto the CR. Members of the House Freedom Caucus, a group of ultra-conservative members, used a series of speeches on Wednesday to plead with Trump to veto the bill.

"If you veto this bill, we'll be there, more importantly, the American people will be there," said Rep. Mark Meadows, the Freedom Caucus Chair. "They'll be there to support you. Let's build the wall and make sure we do our job in Congress."

In addition, many pro-Trump media members, such as Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter, called on the president to veto the bill. [This is the the heart of it; Trump goes into panic mode when he sees the folks who have been making their living pandering to the xenophobes, racists and know-nothings in his base longer than he has, slamming him.

It's almost an exact replay of a few months ago when Trump had a deal to get an additional 25 billion for border security in exchange for agreeing to a 10 year DACA extension, and then he blew it up when he saw Coulter, Limbaugh and Co., turning on him...Trump knows he's going to need the hardcore nativists in his corner for the coming Impeachment battle, so he wont do anything that risks alienating them... ]
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-g ... ll-2018-12

While a government shutdown over the wall may please the drooling knuckle draggers and those who earn a tidy income validating their fears and resentments, the overall political optics of forcing a government shutdown right before Christmas are absolutely awful for Trump...

"Putin Gets Syria For Christmas; The American People Get A Shut Down"

"Trump Shuts Down The Government As He Takes Off For A 16 Day Taxpayer Funded Holiday"


Nice headlines...
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Lord Jim
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Lord Jim »

Trump torpedoes funding bill over border wall

Washington (CNN)A holiday government shutdown appeared more likely on Thursday after President Donald Trump informed House Republicans he would refuse to accept a stop-gap measure -- already passed by the Senate -- that doesn't include funds for his long-promised border wall.

What was once a deal to avoid a Christmas partial shutdown was torpedoed Thursday by conservatives and Trump, who unleashed fury at another agreement that stops short of providing the $5 billion the President has demanded for the border.

It was a closing burst of wrath in the final days of the Republican-majority House. If Trump cannot secure the money he is demanding for the wall now, it's unlikely he will see a spending bill that meets his requirement for at least two years as Democrats assume control.

The uncertainty sent lawmakers scrambling to devise a solution that could keep funds flowing to some government agencies after Friday's deadline. It's not clear if there are enough votes in the House for a bill that would include the $5 billion in border wall funding; in the Senate, where any measure will require 60 votes to clear procedural hurdles, there are almost certainly not enough votes.

Stewing at the White House, Trump ranted on Twitter that he'd been down a similar road earlier this year, only to find himself again in the same position. His press secretary said he wouldn't move forward without the billions in funding for "steel slats or a wall."
At first I was thinking that Mitch McConnell must be feeling like once again, Trump has cut him off at the knees...

But on further consideration he must feel more like the cat who got the canary, because no matter what the political blow back on this winds up being, nobody can blame his Senate for it since they already passed a spending extension...
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Econoline »

:arg

I wonder....any chance that there are enough votes to override his veto???

Congress must surely realize that they will come off looking like the Good Guys if they do it.
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Econoline »

P.S. All the Roomers say that the Boarder Wall is a silly idea.
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Bicycle Bill »

If the government shuts down, will that also turn off Trump's Twitter feed?
If so, I'm almost in favor of it....
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Econoline »

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People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Lord Jim »

The thing that makes this "strategy" doubly insane, is that never, ever,...not once, not a single time....

In the whole modern history of government shutdowns, going back to the Gingrich initiated shutdown in the mid-nineties, has the side that brought on the shutdown prevailed, and seen the shutdown result in the other side giving them their goal...

What has happened every single time without exception, is that the political pressure on the side that caused the shutdown grows until they are forced to cave, (polls taken during and after the various shutdowns have consistently shown that even a majority of those who supported the issue that was the alleged reason for the shutdown opposed the shutdown)

And of course there is absolutely no reason to believe that isn't what will happen this time... :loon
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Scooter
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Scooter »

Uh, you might want to ask the Chinese how well their wall kept out the Mongols.

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He knows tech better than anyone? Jesus H. Christ pictured on a slice of baloney, and yet the base will lap it up.
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Burning Petard »

POTUS' son-in-law, the guy chosen by POTUS to end the Palestine-Israel conflict, should report to POTUS about the Israeli experience with tunnels.
POTUS' own DEA could also tell him about tunnels. They actually improve the efficiency of moving contraband across national barriers.

snailgate

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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Econoline wrote:P.S. All the Roomers say that the Boarder Wall is a silly idea.
Not many people are going to get that, Econo. It's a bit of an inn joke.

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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Scooter wrote:Uh, you might want to ask the Chinese how well their wall kept out the Mongols.

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He knows tech better than anyone? Jesus H. Christ pictured on a slice of baloney, and yet the base will lap it up.
And if Trump's understanding of tech is demonstrated by his knowledge of Twitter - well, I suppose thoughts like 'covfefe' and 'smocking gun' (and 'else's' - see above) help us to agree that his knowledge is incomparable.

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Lord Jim
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Lord Jim »

Looks like somebody finally explained to Il Boobce that the first rule of Shutdown Club is never take credit for the shutdown:
Trump says 'Democrats now own the shutdown' just 10 days after declaring he was 'proud to shut down the government'

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Now that a government shutdown appears to be imminent, President Donald Trump is trying to shift responsibility.

In a tweet on Friday, just hours before the federal government is set to enter a partial shutdown, the president attempted to point a finger at Democrats for the standoff over border-wall funding.

"The Democrats now own the shutdown!" the president said.

That sentiment is vastly different than Trump's declaration during a meeting with Democratic leaders Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi at the White House just 10 days ago. In that meeting, Trump put the possibility of a shutdown entirely on his shoulders.

"I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck, because the people of this country don't want criminals, and people that have lots of problems, and drugs pouring into our country," Trump said. "So I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I'm not going to blame you for it — the last time you shut it down, it didn't work. I will take the mantle of shutting it down. And I'm going to shut it down for border security."
https://www.businessinsider.com/governm ... ts-2018-12

This is something else that has never, ever, not once, not a single time, worked...

Every time there has been a government shutdown, the side that brought it on has tried to blame the other guys, and every time the polling has shown that the vast majority of the public has seen through the ploy and blamed those who were actually responsible...
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Scooter »

“A shutdown falls on the President’s lack of leadership. He can’t even control his party and get people together in a room. A shutdown means the President is weak.” - Donald J. Trump, 2013
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To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by RayThom »

ex-khobar Andy wrote:
Econoline wrote:P.S. All the Roomers say that the Boarder Wall is a silly idea.
Not many people are going to get that, Econo. It's a bit of an inn joke.
Well, you can't stump me. I wasn't born yesterday, buster. It's so obvious that none of those words needed to be capitalized.
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by wesw »

unfortunately for the dems, is now that the house has passed his border funding (which nancy said was impossible), and the senate has agreed to consider the house bill , they are now in the position of filibustering a cloture vote.

seems that it is on chuck.

the dems in the senate are not allowing a vote on the bill?

they would rather shut down than allow a vote?

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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Scooter »

It's on your fuehrer, just like he said it should be.

How's the goosestepping and straight armed saluting practice going?
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Lord Jim »

wesw wrote:unfortunately for the dems,... blah, blah, blah, talking point, talking point, talking point, spin, spin, spin
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

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And I've got some great news for you wes...

I'm sure you've been worried that a government shutdown might effect the Russiagate investigation...

But let not your heart be troubled; shutdown or no shutdown, it will be full steam ahead for Team Mueller :ok :
Mueller investigation will not stall if government shuts down

Special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election would continue unimpeded in the event of a government shutdown at midnight Friday.

The special counsel’s office is “funded from a permanent indefinite appropriation and would be unaffected in the event of a shutdown,” a Justice Department spokesman told The Hill.
https://thehill.com/policy/national-sec ... t-shutdown
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Econoline »

Ummm...wes....the Senate already PASSED a continuing resolution to prevent a shutdown, one which Trump had previously said he would sign. Why didn't the House vote on THAT bill? Why did they write and pass a bill that everyone knew couldn't pass in the Senate instead of an already-existing bill that already HAD passed in the Senate?

Oh, yeah...
Lord Jim wrote:
wesw wrote:unfortunately for the dems,... blah, blah, blah, talking point, talking point, talking point, spin, spin, spin
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Lord Jim »

Eternal optimist that I am, I had hoped that the reason that wes hadn't been posting was that in the wake of how badly he predicted the outcome of the midterm elections, he might be asking himself "What else could I be completely wrong about?" and be going through a reassessment of his beliefs about Trump...

I was hoping that maybe the scales were starting to fall from his eyes, and he was beginning to regain an acquaintance with reality, but that he was just too stubborn and/or embarrassed to admit that here...

But it seems he's decided instead to just double down on the Kool-Aid...

Oh well, it's not the first time I've been disappointed...
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