To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

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Scooter
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Scooter »

Here is a contrary take on Trump's "offer":
Trump Makes an Offer That Everyone Can Refuse

Donald Trump may have a few things in common with Vito Corleone, like being from New York, having a sleazy lawyer who works as his fixer, and running a business that many suspect is a front for illegal activity. One way in which they differ, however, is that the Godfather knew how to make 'em an offer they can't refuse, while the President does not appear to have that skill.

On Saturday, Trump gave his much-ballyhooed speech about the government shutdown. Well, his latest much-ballyhooed speech about the government shutdown, if we want to be entirely accurate. In this speech, Trump recycled most of the talking points from his Oval Office address last Tuesday. He also offered the following concessions to the Democrats:
  • Three years of legislative relief for 700,000 DACA recipients, giving them access to work permits, social security numbers and protection from deportation
  • A three-year extension of Temporary Protected Status for immigrants whose protections are facing expiration
  • $800 million in humanitarian assistance
  • $805 million for drug detection technology
  • 2,750 border agents and law enforcement professionals
  • 75 new immigration judge teams to reduce the backlog of court cases
On its surface, this may seem like a reasonable olive branch, but it's not really an offer at all, for a number of reasons:
  • The "crown jewel" is a cubic zirconia: Trump actually put almost all of these things on the table a month ago; to the extent that there's anything new or intriguing about the proposal, it's that he went slightly further in terms of his commitments on the TPS and the dreamers. However, it's still an empty offer, because it would basically maintain the status quo. The folks benefiting from the DREAM program and TPS are currently being protected by the courts, which have stepped in to stop Trump from implementing his directives. They are also being protected, to an extent, by city and state governments that are unwilling to play ball with the President.
  • Trump giveth what he tooketh away: It is also worth pointing out that the main chip that Trump is throwing into the pot is one that he stole from the pot 18 months ago. As Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) put it: "It was the President who single-handedly took away DACA and TPS protections in the first place—offering some protections back in exchange for the wall is not a compromise but more hostage taking." For the dreamers to become an actual bargaining chip, one that makes the Democrats sit up and take notice, Trump would need to start talking about permanent protection for them, at the very least, and probably citizenship.
  • The other concessions are nothing to write home about, either: Keeping in mind that it is Congress, and in particular the House, that has the power of the purse, the other items on the list are also non-concessions. If the House agrees to appropriate money for humanitarian assistance, drug detection technology, more border guards, or more immigration judges, those things would undoubtedly sail through the Senate and would get a presidential signature. Speaker Nancy Pelosi & Co. don't need to negotiate with Trump to do these things. It's only a concession if it's an expenditure that he and the Senate would not otherwise approve. If he offered, say, $2 billion for the NEA, or for gun-control advertising, or Planned Parenthood, then that would be a concession.
  • It's disrespectful: Anytime that anyone tries to conduct a high-profile negotiation in public, using TV/the press/the Internet/etc., it invariably aggravates the situation, as it is very disrespectful to the other side of the negotiation. What it communicates is: "I don't care about your actual concerns, I care about selling the public on how reasonable I'm being." Maybe this should not matter, but it does. And someone who is as thin-skinned as Trump is, and who gets insulted by anything and everything, can hardly claim the moral high ground here.
  • It's off target: As we and others have noted, the Democrats' position is crystal clear: No negotiations until the government is reopened. They are going to stick to this because their base would be furious if they did not, and because they simply cannot allow Trump to walk away with the lesson that he can hold the federal government hostage to get what he wants.
"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu."

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Scooter
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Scooter »

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"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu."

-- Author unknown

liberty
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by liberty »

Bicycle Bill wrote:
liberty wrote:Bullshit and bullshit, walls do work. A wall is a barrier and barriers work. Why do you think we use them on the battlefield to decorate the scenery?
Walls do work, no argument there; but only in the short term.  Every wall ever built, whether it was to keep people out (the walls of Jericho; the Great Wall of China; the Maginot Line; Hitler''s 'Atlantic Wall') or to hold them in (the Berlin Wall, POW camp barriers, even prison walls like at the Bastille or Alcatraz) has eventually been breached or bypassed.
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-"BB"-
Nothing works forever even if it is operated and maintained correctly. But I don’t think we will need it for forever; when Mexico become rich they may need a wall.

Everything fails eventually. I worry about the future of the social security system; it appears that liberals are determined to bring it down.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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Scooter
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Scooter »

Pray tell, fool, what have "liberals" done to "bring down" Social Security?

As opposed to, say, Republicans like Paul Ryan who actively campaigned to dismantle it.
"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu."

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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Scooter wrote:Image

I guess the San Antonio wall was built around the time of the Bowling Green massacre.
The Alamo is in San Antonio.  The Alamo had a wall to keep out the Mexicans.  Maybe that's the one he was talking about.
And it worked — for almost two weeks.  But then ...
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Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?

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Scooter
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Scooter »

Canadian Air Traffic Controllers Buy Pizza For American Colleagues Affected By U.S. Government Shutdown

Canadian air traffic controllers are carrying out a simple, but heartfelt gesture for their American counterparts — they're buying them dinner amidst the U.S. government shutdown.

Air traffic controllers (ATC) in Moncton, N.B. and Gander, Nfld. sent pizza over to controllers manning the stations at the New York Air Traffic Control Center (ZNY), in Ronkonkoma, N.Y., on Friday night in support of their colleagues who are working unpaid as the American government's partial shutdown drags into its fourth week.

A photo of a sign hung up in New York Center which said that 32 pizzas had been ordered by the Canadians was posted on Reddit by user PlatinumAero, whose real name is David Lombardo.

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Lombardo, who runs the Facebook page ATC Memes and is a partner on the ATC merch website radarcontact.com, used to work at New York Center and continues to have close contact with air traffic controllers across the United States.

He told HuffPost Canada that the picture was sent to him from one of the controllers who is working at the ZNY during the shutdown. He explained that Canadian and American air traffic controllers often work closely together.

"New York Center is a radar facility that handles a large chunk of domestic and international air traffic. Part of the centre's airspace lies up against Canadian airspace, so in other words, these controllers 'hand off' aircraft to one another, and work together to keep airplanes safe," Lombardo said.

The government shutdown is significantly affecting air traffic controllers — according to Lombardo, some have experienced shutdowns before, but never ones that lasted this long.

"Many controllers who work for the [Federal Aviation Administration] literally got paycheques that said $0.00, and many are doing overtime, working holidays, nights, weekends, and are in facilities that are already very short-staffed," Lombardo said. "To add the stress of not knowing when they're going to get paid, that has to be tough for many."

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Air traffic controllers in Atlantic Canada aren't the only Canadians reaching out to their American counterparts.

Montreal Centre sent Boston Center pizza, while Pierre Elliott Trudeau International Airport sent pizza to their counterparts in Burlington, Vt. and LaGuardia, N.Y.

Toronto's area centre sent pizza to their colleagues at Cleveland Center, while Vancouver bought pizza for Seattle Center.

"In many cases these are radar control facilities buying for the neighbouring sector facility," Lombardo said.

The outpouring of support isn't ending yet though — Lombardo said Winnipeg Tower is sending dinner to Minneapolis−Saint Paul International Airport's tower on Sunday night, and already covered Grand Forks' lunch on Saturday.

And the entire initiative was started in Edmonton's area control centre after employees brainstormed ways to help their counterparts down south. Controller Mike Cormier suggested they buy pizza for their colleagues in Anchorage, Alaska, according to Scott Loder, the Canadian Air Traffic Control Association's (CATCA) Edmonton branch chair.

"News spread to our CATCA union president who was at the negotiations table with our bargaining team members from across the country... and all other [area control centres] and a majority of control towers started joining this amazing demonstration of support for our American colleagues south of the border."

eter Duffey, CATCA's president, said that financially helping the over 10,000 air traffic controllers in the United States was out of the question — but a small but meaningful gesture like buying the pizza was hopefully enough to cheer shut-down controllers up, so on Thursday the controllers in Anchorage received their free dinner.

"As odd as that may sound, airplanes leaving Edmonton... the next controllers they talk to are in Anchorage so there's a lot of conversations... taking place between those units," Duffey explained.

Edmonton controllers also decided to send pizza to the centre in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Another Reddit user commented on Lombardo's thread and said they received an email from the Toronto union branch noting that the pizzas are an initiative taking place at centres across the country.

"As a gesture of solidarity with our fellow American controllers, we will be sending pizza to the Cleveland Center controllers for dinner. They are in the middle of the government shutdown and as of yesterday did not receive their paycheques," the email reportedly said. "All the [Area Control Centre's (ACC] across the country will be buying pizzas for their adjacent centres."

HuffPost Canada confirmed with Nav Canada, the not-for-profit corporation that employs all Canadian air traffic controllers, that all seven of Canada's area control centres had sent pizza to American colleagues, along with many of the country's 40 control towers.

"We are very proud of the thoughtfulness that our controllers have shown to their colleagues in the U.S., proud but not surprised," Ron Singer, Nav Canada's media relations manager, told HuffPost Canada.

He also emphasized that while all seven ACCs had participated, Nav Canada had not officially launched any sort of campaign, and that the initiative was entirely employee-based.

CATCA's president had similar praise for his colleagues.

"It's just overwhelming pride... this was not something the union asked them to do. This was something that the members did on their own and to be able to say you represent people like that, it's truly humbling and I'm so proud of the men and women in my association for what they've done."

Duffey added that at least 41 FAA units in the United States have received pizza from Canadians so far, and that the response from American controllers has been "overwhelming gratitude" for the morale boost.

He also explained that air traffic controllers are a close community — Canadian and American ATCs get together a few times a year and do a lot of things together — and he compared the solidarity between controllers to the bond between police officers or firefighters.

"Air traffic control is very much the same. It's a very close-knit fraternity of people doing the same job and when they see others struggling, they're quick to respond."

Duffey also noted that after the Fort McMurray, Alta. wildfire in 2016, where controllers were some of the last people to be evacuated and ran into financial problems after the disaster, the U.S. air traffic control union was one of the first to reach out with cash donations.

Lombardo, who lives in Long Island, N.Y., told HuffPost Canada the shutdown is pushing some people towards desperate measures like taking out loans, and that people have even messaged his ATC Memes page to ask him to share information on different loan programs.

Air traffic controllers haven't been paid for their work the first two weeks of 2019, and many are urging U.S. President Donald Trump to bring an end to the government shutdown.

"This partial shutdown has already inflicted real damage to our nation's aviation system and the impacts will only worsen over time," a group of aviation organizations including the National Air Traffic Control Association wrote in an open letter sent to government officials.

"As the shutdown persists, excepted air traffic controllers and workers in technical operations, who operate and maintain safety-critical navigational aids, surveillance, and communications equipment, are performing highly skilled and safety-critical services without pay."

The National Air Traffic Controllers Association also filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration on Friday for allegedly violating the Fifth Amendment by depriving controllers of "hard-earned compensation without the requisite due process."

"Air traffic control — we always say our career is one where we have to be 100 per cent correct, 100 per cent of the time with zero room for error, and I really feel for the folks that have got to come in to work on this high pressure, high stress job that now have to worry about how they're going to make mortgage payments and how they're going to put food on the family table for a couple weeks," Duffey said.

"If there's anything that we can do — a small gesture of buying lunch for somebody maybe — if there's anything that we can do to let our brothers and sisters down there know that we are standing with them, it's just an absolutely fantastic initiative."
"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu."

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Mark my words ... Trump will look at the above and tweet something stupid like, "SEE??  I knew they'd get by somehow."
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Econoline »

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People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
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Scooter
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Scooter »

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"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu."

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Scooter
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Scooter »

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"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu."

-- Author unknown

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Crackpot
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Crackpot »

1 that is a way to flattering depiction of trump.
2 trump will not be satisfied until there is some sort of big structure with his name on it.
Last edited by Crackpot on Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Lord Jim
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Lord Jim »

Donald Trump Tweets He Will Postpone State Of The Union Address Until Government Reopens

The State of the Union address, the president's annual speech, will not go ahead as planned on Jan. 29.

President Donald Trump tweeted his decision to postpone the message on Wednesday, hours after Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi informed him that he would not be allowed to deliver the address to Congress until the government has reopened.

"As the Shutdown was going on, Nancy Pelosi asked me to give the State of the Union Address. I agreed. She then changed her mind because of the Shutdown, suggesting a later date," Trump tweeted. "This is her prerogative - I will do the Address when the Shutdown is over. I am not looking for an alternative venue for the SOTU Address because there is no venue that can compete with the history, tradition and importance of the House Chamber. I look forward to giving a “great” State of the Union Address in the near future!"

The president's announcement is the latest development in a week-long exchange between Trump and Pelosi. Pelosi initially cited security concerns when she told the president on Jan. 16 that his address should be postponed or, if he preferred, delivered in writing.
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-t ... nt-1302716

There's one thing we can be absolutely certain of regarding that tweet...

Donald Trump did not write it...

It's far too rational and coherent; it almost reads like it could have been written by a real President...

Or at least an adult...even all the grammar and spelling is correct...

It's funny the way it's always so easy to tell whether or not a tweet that goes out from his account was actually written by the POS-In-Chief...
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Lord Jim
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Lord Jim »

Scooter wrote:Image
That possibility occurred to me a while ago...

Afterall, he's been blatantly lying for some time saying that the wall was currently being built and that "a lot" of it has already been built since he became President, so why not just take the next step and say he's got what he needs to finish it?

Then in a few months he could go down to the border and have himself photoed in front of some section of border wall that was built years ago and triumphantly declare that his wall is now complete...

I think the answer to why he isn't doing this is that Ann Coulter wouln't let him get away with it...
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Lord Jim wrote:Then in a few months he could go down to the border and have himself photoed in front of some section of border wall that was built years ago and triumphantly declare that his wall is now complete...

I think the answer to why he isn't doing this is that Ann Coulter wouln't let him get away with it...
That and the fact that even a Trumpazoid with an iPhone and access to Google Earth would quickly be able to tell what was there, what had already been there, and what – if anything – was new.
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Bicycle Bill wrote: That and the fact that even a Trumpazoid with an iPhone and access to Google Earth would quickly be able to tell what was there, what had already been there, and what – if anything – was new.
BB you have far too much faith in the ability of the average Trumpist to process factual information.

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Scooter
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Scooter »

More tone deafness from the Trumpanzee elites:
Wilbur Ross doesn’t understand why furloughed federal workers need food banks

Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross says he does not understand why federal employees who are furloughed or have been working without pay during the partial government shutdown would need assistance from food banks.

Several credit unions serving workers at federal departments and agencies have been offering stopgap loans, as they have during previous shutdowns. But it’s not clear how those loans would even be sufficient as the shutdown enters its second month.

“I know they are, and I don’t really quite understand why,” Ross said when asked on CNBC about workers getting food from places like shelters. “Because, as I mentioned before, the obligations that they would undertake, say borrowing from a bank or a credit union are in effect federally guaranteed.”

But in addition to the federal employees who are set to miss another paycheck at the end of this week, there are many federal contractors who have no expectation of ever getting the missed payments back.

Still, Ross — who oversees a cabinet department that is under the shutdown due to a lack of appropriations— was downplaying the effect on the economy at large.

“Put it in perspective, you’re talking about 800,000 workers, and while I feel sorry for the individuals that have hardship cases, 800,000 workers if they never got their pay, which is not the case they will eventually get it, but if they never got it, you’re talking about a third of a percent on our GDP,” he said of the affected federal employees. “So, it’s not like it’s a gigantic number overall.”
Is there any substantive difference between saying "they can get loans" and "let them eat cake"?
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Lord Jim
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Lord Jim »

And even more tone deafness from the Trumpanzee elites:
Lara Trump: the shutdown is a “little bit of pain” for workers, but worth it

It’s day 33 of the longest government shutdown in American history, and federal workers are facing a second missed paycheck.

Lara Trump, President Donald Trump’s daughter-in-law and reelection campaign adviser, had a message for the furloughed workers and those working without pay: It will be worth it.

“Listen, it’s not fair to you, and we all get this, but this is so much bigger than any one person,” she said in an interview with Bold TV. “It’s a little bit of pain, but it’s going to be for the future of our country.”

Future Americans will be grateful for the shutdown, Lara Trump said: “Their children and their grandchildren will thank them for their sacrifice right now.”

Although she said she empathized with workers’ plights — “I know they have bills to pay, they have mortgages, they have rents that are due” — Trump’s comments sparked a backlash because of her personal wealth.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... wn-workers
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by BoSoxGal »

Both cunts! :arg


(Who probably couldn’t accurately name the price of any of the groceries that are delivered to their posh NYC apartments and unloaded by their housekeepers.)
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by RayThom »

As the Shutdown was going on, Nancy Pelosi asked me to give the State of the Union Address. I agreed. She then changed her mind because of the Shutdown, suggesting a later date," Trump tweeted. "This is her prerogative - I will do the Address when the Shutdown is over. I am not looking for an alternative venue for the STFU Address because there is no venue that can compete with the history, tradition and importance of the House Chamber. I look forward to giving a “great” State of the Union Address in the near future!"
WTF? This has to be from a speech writer. It's way too coherent for Lord Dampnut. He's got to be up to something more diabolical.

As soon as the "@realDonaldTrump" pulls himself away from his Baconators and FUXNews we're bound to get a retraction.
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Joe Guy
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Re: To Shut Down Or Not To Shut Down...

Post by Joe Guy »

Melania probably wrote it for the Donald. He was probably spinning around on the floor after Pelosi uninvited him...

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