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If Only...

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:34 am
by Lord Jim
Fake Washington Post edition claiming Trump resigned pops up in DC

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Bogus copies of the Washington Post were circulated around Washington, DC, Wednesday morning with a blaring front-page headline claiming President Trump had resigned.

Sham copies of the paper, which has often been derided by Trump as fake news for its critical reporting on his administration, bore the headline, “UNPRESIDENTED: TRUMP HASTILY DEPARTS WHITE HOUSE, ENDING CRISIS” above a photo of a glum-looking Trump. They quickly made the rounds in the nation’s capital — and on social media.

The fake broadsheet reported that Trump issued no formal statement about his sudden departure. But it “quotes” anonymous White House aides who claimed to have found a napkin on his desk in the Oval Office, scrawled with, “Blame Crooked Hillary & Hfior & the Fake News Media.”

On closer inspection, the fake WashPo has a print date of May 1, 2019, and several satirical details, including the slogan “Democracy Awakens in Action” — a riff off the Post’s actual motto of “Democracy Dies in Darkness,” Deadline reported.
https://nypost.com/2019/01/16/fake-wash ... -up-in-dc/


May 1st is probably a little optimistic...

I'm hoping for mid-summer...

If Only...

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:45 pm
by RayThom
I see that as scary news.

I want to see Lord Dampnut impeached, which I hope would make him as ineffective as possible. However, if he is forced to resign it will allow Mike Pence (aka. the Holy Ghost) to ascend to the throne as our next Douchebag-in-Chief, and that's even scarier.

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Rock and a hard place.

Re: If Only...

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:00 pm
by Joe Guy
President Penance...

Re: If Only...

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:33 pm
by Burning Petard
Resignation or impeachment or heart attack or recognized mental incompetence--all result in President Pence.

snailgate.

Re: If Only...

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:53 am
by datsunaholic
Jan 21. Pence doesn't want it before that. Because if he were take office before that, he wouldn't be eligible in 2024.

Re: If Only...

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:37 am
by Lord Jim
it will allow Mike Pence (aka. the Holy Ghost) to ascend to the throne as our next Douchebag-in-Chief, and that's even scarier.
Well, I could not possibly disagree more...

I'm not a social conservative, and Mike Pence before The Rise Of Trump would not have made the top 20 on my list of Presidential preferences. (If I wanted to support someone from Indiana, I would have much preferred his predecessor, Mitch Daniels, who I think would have made an excellent President).

But I've looked at his record as Governor of Indiana, and it's a pretty pragmatic one. Despite his rhetorical expressions of strong fundamentalist religious convictions, and some oddball quirks (like refusing to be alone with any woman not his wife) there's certainly no substantive indication that he was on a crusade to turn the state of Indiana into some sort of "Theocracy".

And I'm sure that just strictly on the basis of those policy areas that I consider to be important, (economic policy, defense policy, national security policy) Pence is much more likely to support and pursue policies closer to my own views than just about anyone the Democrats would nominate.

This does not mean that I would automatically support a President Pence for election in his own right. Primarily because I've been not at all happy with the level of public slavish support that he has shown to Il Boobce.

I will cut a VP more slack in this regard than I would other politicians, because there would be something unseemly about the next guy in line for the job being an outspoken public critic of a President. But even applying that standard, Pence seems to me to go much further than necessary in his public affirmations of support. (Though when you're the Vice President to the most insecure President in history, maybe that's what he feels he needs to do.)

If you go back and look at the speeches and interviews that Gerald Ford gave during the nine months he was Vice-President, he was pretty much an unabashed "good soldier" defender of Nixon. (Until the "smoking gun" tape came out three days before Nixon resigned, at which point he issued a statement saying that he would no longer have anything to say about Watergate.) But obviously once he became President, he did not conduct the office in any way like Richard Nixon had.

I'm certainly not suggesting that Mike Pence is any kind of Gerald Ford, but if he became President by virtue of Trump's departure, I would reserve judgement on him, and see how he asserted himself as President before deciding whether or not I could support him for election.

I obviously don't expect any of my liberal or Democratic friends here to take that attitude; I expect they would oppose Pence from the get-go because they disagree with him on policy, and that they would support pretty much anyone the Democrats would nominate to oppose him, and that's perfectly fair.

But I would argue that no matter where one is coming from ideologically, they should really think long and hard before coming to the conclusion that they'd rather have Donald Trump in office then Mike Pence...

In my view, every day that Donald Trump remains in office represents a clear and present danger to the fundamental well being of our Republic, and no matter what one thinks of Pence, (and as I've made clear, I'm far from a big fan) the same cannot be said of him.

For a whole host of reasons, Trump represents a uniquely dangerous and malevolent presence in the Presidency. Whatever else you want to say about Pence, here are a few things we would not have with him as President that we have currently:

We would not have to worry that he would wake up one morning and decide to pull out of NATO...(Indeed just based on the role he's played in this Administration, I would expect a President Pence to work pretty hard repairing the relations with traditional allies that Trump has shredded, and reassuring them of US support.)

We would not have our foreign policy subordinated to the interests and dictates of a hostile foreign power. (Pence would most likely pursue a traditional Republican Hawkish defense and foreign policy, and you may not care for that, but surely it has to be preferable to having a President who is a Russian Asset.)

We would not have a President who day in and day out conducts a war on the rule of law by systematically seeking to undermine and discredit our federal law enforcement agencies, our court system and our free press. (And even if you believed he would try to do those things, Pence would still be preferable to Trump because he lacks the devoted cult-following fan base that would support his authoritarian aims.)

We would not have a President launching economically destructive trade wars, or keeping the government partially shutdown for four weeks (and counting) just to get funding for a mythical wall, or a President who spends more time tweeting and watching television about himself than he does reading briefing papers...

We would not have a President who is more influenced by foreign despots than he is by his own intelligence services and Defense Department...

We would not have a President who is incapable of representing his office with even the most minimally acceptable probity and dignity at any public occasion in the US or abroad...

We would not have a President who constantly demeans his office and embarrasses our country with his incessant, obsessive displays of pettiness and narcissistic self-obsession...

And probably most importantly, we would not have a President who, (unlike every other President we have ever had) doesn't give one small damn about the best interests of the United States...(Pence, like every other President we have had besides Trump, would at a minimum fall into that category of, "Well, I don't like his polices or his judgement, but I don't doubt that he sincerely believes he is trying to do what he thinks would be best for the country")

Liberals who want to take the position, "Well, Trump is terrible of course, but probably better than Pence so we should just put up with him for another two years" seem to me to be a lot like some of my conservative friends who say, "Well, Trump is terrible of course, but I agree with him on a lot of his economic policies, and I like his judicial picks, and I think you're really exaggerating the threat to the country he represents, so I'm going to continue to support him".

Seems to me both positions wrongly minimize the unique threats posed by having this morally and intellectually bankrupt, sociopathic malignant narcissist (backed by hardcore of uncritical cult-followers) remaining in the highest office in the land...

It seems to me that for anyone who truly cares about the fundamental well being of our country, (left, right, or center) the first priority needs to be, "Get rid of Donald Trump"...

Then we can all go back to arguing over policy choices...

Gee wouldn't that be nice...

Re: If Only...

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:15 am
by Bicycle Bill
Lord Jim wrote: ....and some oddball quirks (like refusing to be alone with any woman not his wife)....
That's just a throwback to the old practice of a (female) nurse always being present when a male doctor examined a female patient to ensure that nothing improper was going on.  Given the way an allegation, any allegation, in this day of #MeToo can derail someone's career nowadays, his attitude seems to me to be just plain common sense.
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-"BB"-

If Only...

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:13 pm
by RayThom
Lord Jim wrote:
it will allow Mike Pence (aka. the Holy Ghost) to ascend to the throne as our next Douchebag-in-Chief, and that's even scarier.
Well, I could not possibly disagree more... It seems to me that for anyone who truly cares about the fundamental well being of our country, (left, right, or center) the first priority needs to be, "Get rid of Donald Trump"...

Then we can all go back to arguing over policy choices...

Gee wouldn't that be nice...
Well, Mr. Smartypants, since you put it that way, I am somewhat inclined to agree with your quasi-impeccable logic.

We can only hope that this morning's newest revelations from the Mueller report will be enough to get the impeachment ball rolling. However, I am still concerned about Cohen's safety.

Re: If Only...

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:39 pm
by Lord Jim
We can only hope that this morning's newest revelations from the Mueller report will be enough to get the impeachment ball rolling.
I've got all of my fingers and toes crossed hoping and praying that this "Trump told Cohen to lie to Congress to cover up his involvement with Russian " story has some strong corroborating evidence to it...

The criminality and corruption in that is the sort of stark and direct thing that is very easy for the average person to understand... And it's conspiracy, obstruction of justice, suborning perjury, and witness tampering all rolled into one...

It will be a lot easier to build the necessary public support for Impeachment and Removal for charges like that, than it would be for something fairly complicated and arcane like violating the Emoluments Clause...

As far as Cohen's safety is concerned, it seems to that if Trump or his Russian masters wanted to off him, the time to do that would have been before he started singing to the special counsel's office...

I doubt that there's anything that he's going to say before Congress that Bob Mueller doesn't already know...

Though of course the effect of widely watched (and I expect his appearance will be carried not just by the cable news stations, but by the broadcast networks as well) public testimony will likely be very impactful, and I can certainly see why some folks might want to avoid that...

Re: If Only...

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:51 pm
by Burning Petard
Paranoid Dream.


POTUS does the State of the Union ritual in Congress. All Dems boycott it. Some paranoid group (with no connections to anything that smells least bit Liberal) blows up the room.

Nancy Pelosi (if I have that succession chain correct) becomes President. Didn't Tom Clancy do a book on this?

snailgate

Re: If Only...

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:55 am
by Lord Jim
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:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
Mueller's office disputes BuzzFeed report that Trump directed Michael Cohen to lie to Congress

(CNN)Special counsel Robert Mueller's office disputed an explosive story from BuzzFeed News as "not accurate" Friday night, after the news outlet reported the President had directed his personal attorney Michael Cohen to lie to Congress, for which Cohen was later prosecuted.

"BuzzFeed's description of specific statements to the Special Counsel's Office, and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office, regarding Michael Cohen's Congressional testimony are not accurate," said Peter Carr, a spokesman for Mueller's office, in a statement.

It's highly unusual for the special counsel's office to provide a statement to the media -- outside of court filings and judicial hearings -- about any of its ongoing investigative activities.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/18/politics ... index.html

It is very very rare for Mueller's office to issue a comment about anything that appears in the press, (normally being press spokesman for The Special Counsel's Office is an easier gig than being the Maytag Repair Man...) so unfortunately I have to believe that Buzfeed's really got the wrong end of the stick on this one... :cry:

And now of course, the denizens of Trumpanzee Land will have a field day... :roll: :arg

ETA:

The one silver lining here is that the only way for Trump and his minions to milk this for it's diversion and deflection value is to cite as a reputable source the very investigation that they have been smearing and maligning non-stop for nearly two years...

Re: If Only...

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:47 am
by ex-khobar Andy
There are two separate allegations here. One is that Trump told Cohen to lie to Congress. The other story is that Cohen told this story and provided evidence to Mueller.

It seems to me that Mueller's refutation: "BuzzFeed’s description of specific statements to the special counsel’s office, and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office, regarding Michael Cohen’s congressional testimony are not accurate.” is not a statement that the central allegation (Trump told Cohen to lie) is inaccurate but that the description of the evidence is not accurate. A world of difference.

Re: If Only...

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:37 am
by Joe Guy
Has anyone here ever read Buzzfeed?

I never did until just now. It doesn’t seem like the type of website that people would reference for important and accurate news. It probably is true that Trump told Cohen to lie but the telling of the story might be inaccurate. I agree with Andy.

Re: If Only...

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:28 am
by Lord Jim
I also agree with Andy's characterization; the Special Counsel office's statement seems to be suggesting that some of the evidence claims in the article are incorrect, but it does not say that the central allegation is false.

Unfortunately though, it's the quality and the of the evidence with this that is key to it's value in the political fight to free the country from the malignant clutches of Donald Trump.

The SC statement is (probably appropriately so; no point in tipping your hand) vague about just what "descriptions" and "characterizations" are "not accurate" regarding the corroborating evidence so we can hope that they are minor and that enough remains to make a strong case. (No accusation that Cohen makes that is nothing but a he/said-he/said between him and Trump will have much persuasive value in the court of public opinion; there has to be corroboration.)

And of course none of this changes the fact that Trump deliberately lied to the American people to conceal his involvement in negotiating a deal with Russia while he was campaigning for President and singing Vladimir Putin's praises, nor any of the other myriad of criminal and/or corrupt actions he has taken for which he could be Impeached. (And I'm sure there will be much more to come.)

But all of that having been said, for the moment I find this kind of depressing because it looked like it could be the public opinion winning "smoking gun" that might really accelerate the process of Donald Trump's departure...

And for now at least, it's not going to have that impact...

Re: If Only...

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:35 pm
by Lord Jim
And of course the gloating, mischaracterizations, and diversion milking from Trump and his henchmen has already begun:
Trump Gloats Over BuzzFeed Rebuke: ‘Sad Day For Journalism, Great Day For Country’

President Donald Trump took a victory lap on social media Friday in the wake of a statement from special counsel Robert Mueller’s office that a BuzzFeed report about him was “not accurate.”

Trump crowed that it was a “sad day for journalism, but a great day for our Country!”
Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

Remember it was Buzzfeed that released the totally discredited “Dossier,” [actually not "totally discredited"...in fact largely independently confirmed] paid for by Crooked Hillary Clinton and the Democrats (as opposition research), on which the entire Russian probe is based! A very sad day for journalism, but a great day for our Country!
Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

Fake News is truly the ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE!
105K
7:24 PM - Jan 18, 2019
Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani responded with his own tweets Friday, calling on the Department of Justice to “reveal the leakers of this false BuzzFeed story which the press and Democrats gleefully embraced.” He said the media’s “hysterical desire to destroy this President has gone too far.”

Rudy Giuliani

@RudyGiuliani

I commend Bob Mueller’s office for correcting the BuzzFeed false story that Pres. Trump encouraged Cohen to lie. [Of course the statement from Mueller's office said nothing of the sort.]I ask the press to take heed that their hysterical desire to destroy this President has gone too far. They pursued this without critical analysis all day. #FAKENEWS
16.5K
Rudy Giuliani

@RudyGiuliani

Now the DOJ must reveal the leakers of this false BuzzFeed story which the press and Democrats gleefully embraced. [Oh great, another diversion...I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the "leakers" will actually turn out to be pro-Trump types who played the Buzzfeed reporter just to create this embarrassment.]maybe House Dems should wait to investigate until the Mueller report is filed. 4 have started already.There may be nothing to legitimately investigate.
5:39 PM - Jan 18, 2019 · Palm Beach, FL
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tr ... dbe1717886

Re: If Only...

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:56 pm
by ex-khobar Andy
It's kind of amusing (no it isn't - none of this stuff is at all funny) that while Trump's message for months has been that Mueller and his team are leakin' lyin' Democrats, this time they are right on the money. I wonder why that is?

And as for the "Dossier" (which was very largely compiled on Republicans' dimes when the opposition research was commissioned during primary season, and only became Hillary's dossier once Trump was the nominee) - I have to say that the 'pee tape' bit becomes, every day, about the only rational explanation for much of what is going on. When it was first rumored, I gave it no credence: even Donald Trump must have been aware that you don't do that sort of thing in a foreign hotel room. After all, he's in the hotel business and can't be that dense. Turns out that he is.

Re: If Only...

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:51 pm
by Sue U
ex-khobar Andy wrote:even Donald Trump must have been aware that you don't do that sort of thing in a foreign hotel room. After all, he's in the hotel business and can't be that dense.
He's not in the hotel business. He's not in the building business. He'd been a failure at virtually everything he had tried his hand at -- until the Russians came along:
“I think part of it was he was toxic to the banks. I think he also probably learned that personal guarantees [on loans] weren’t a brilliant idea either,” said the former business associate, who would speak to FP only on condition of anonymity. “So he was saying to himself, ‘What else could I do in the world? I’ll just convince people to buy my brand.’ And the only people who were willing to buy it were tasteless Russians, people who like the absurd, ostentatious gold-leaf lifestyle he has. You’re not going to sell that brand to blue bloods in Greenwich, Connecticut.”
Source: Foreign Policy, How Russian Money Helped Save Trump’s Business