This kind of shit has to stop

[ex-khobar Andy]

Virginia's Governor has apologized for being photographed in 1984 either in blackface or as a Klan member. It might have been poor judgement but come on, there is no evidence, AFAIK, that Northam was then or is now any kind of racist pig.

Elizabeth Warren has apologized for taking a DNA test which shows that there was one Native American family member six to eight generations ago. (Caveat - although I have not seen this explained in the press, I believe that these are the 95% confidence limits of the test which means that there is about a 4% chance of six or nine generations and a 1% chance of more or less depending on whether it is a one tailed or a two tailed error distribution.) As Andrew from Louisville put it in a post to the NYT piece:

Not sure what she has to apologize for. Family lore was that there was a Cherokee (?) ancestor at some point. There is no evidence that she profited in any way from this rumored connection. Because Trump made a big deal of it she decided to take a test. Apparently the test showed that there was at least some evidence to back the claim, nothing more, nothing less. Warren has never claimed to be a tribal member.

About 700 of the 713 commenters on the piece (as of 0904 EST today) made exactly the same point which is a rare display of unanimity among NYT commenters.

If I ever run for POTUS or the school board one of my opponents will manage to dig up an old photo of me from long ago dressed as an apartheid-era South African policemen, wielding a stick and beating the crap out of a young black man. I'd better explain it now.

University College, Swansea Student Union building, 1974-ish. My mate Tony is walking to lunch with his arm around a young white woman whose name escapes me for now. Out of the crowd burst three red faced khaki clad overweight white guys with sticks who proceed to physically separate the pair of them, yell at the woman and beat Tony to a bloody (ketchupy) pulp.

It was Apartheid Awareness Week and I was responsible for liberating 100 mL or so of Mr Heinz's best from the cafeteria. I have never apologized to the refectory people for stealing the ketchup and I don't think I ever checked with Tony to see if it all came out in the wash. I apologize unreservedly now to anyone who may have been offended, and I ask them to forgive my youthful indiscretion.

ETA: And Tony - there may have been a little more realism than intended. Sorry about that.

[BoSoxGal]

Nope, nope. I was a tender 14 in 1984, and yet was keenly aware that blackface was racist and the KKK was a racist murder gang with no reason to be respected or emulated. This man was graduating medical school - he was a grown ass, frontal lobe fully developed ADULT and he CHOSE to feature a photo of him and a buddy in profoundly racist garb on his yearbook page?! Yes, he’s been a decent human being and public servant over the decades since, but he can’t stand as Governor of Virginia with this on the table now.

I’m beyond shocked that this was never brought out in campaign by oppo research - how did it get missed?!

[Crackpot]

The realization of the meaning of actions can take a while to figure out. Especially if you grew up monocultural. I was in my mid twenties before I realized the amount of racist bullshit I was feeding myself.

[Burning Petard]

I'm with you BSG. The VA gov is an ass. However, the controversy about the DNA test for native american claims is more complicated. This is a very different historical, social, political, science, context issue and I find I must have no opinion on what it means for the official, USA treaty recognized, Cherokee Nation and Senator Warren. Race is not an objective data-driven category in America. ('Ethnicity' is even worse.)

snailgate

[BoSoxGal]

I think the insult of trying to claim Native American kinship is by many factors less reprehensible than the insult of proudly, soberly choosing an open display of racism to define oneself on a yearbook page. I understand a certain level of youthful ignorance growing up immersed in casual racism, but this wasn’t the 50s or 60s in Virginia - this was 1984, when Jesse Jackson had run for president and Eyes on the Prize had aired on PBS and MLK, Jr. was honored with a federal holiday and there had been PLENTY of conversation among reasonably educated people of all political stripe that it wasn’t cool to be KKK, or putting on the blackface minstrelsy.

No excuses. Governor Northam’s political career needs to be done now. Virginia will be well served by her second African American governor.

[ex-khobar Andy]

I think the insult of trying to claim Native American kinship is by many factors less reprehensible than the insult of I think the insult of trying to claim Native American kinship is by many factors less reprehensible than the insult of proudly, soberly choosing an open display of racism to define oneself on a yearbook page.

There is, at least to me, no convincing evidence that Warren tried to claim kinship beyond repeating a story, which appears to have been confirmed, that there was, somewhere in her ancestry, a Native American woman. Others may have claimed more on her behalf.

"proudly, soberly choosing an open display of racism to define oneself" seems like a stretch. The image, of a blackface man and a KKK member seemingly together in harmony for a selfie (which is not what we called them back then) is at least ironic. Part of the fun of doing fancy dress is going as something you are not (I have been Frankenstein [the scientist and not the monster] and Dusty Springfield* and the Holy Ghost [all I had was a bedsheet and I cut some holes in it]) and luckily AFAIK no pictures survive.

I am not saying that portrayal as KKK or blackface was smart even in those less enlightened days of the early eighties. I am saying that in those days we had the judgement to decide whether someone was being a racist asshole (and there was a lot of it about) or just trying to make a sardonic comment - which might well have fallen flat.

* I had a lot (and I mean a lot) of hair in those days.

[BoSoxGal]

Warren didn’t just repeat the story of a native grandmother; she listed herself in the Harvard faculty guide as a Native American, which Harvard used to gain credit for numbers of minority faculty in its US News rankings. She contributed to a Native American themed cookbook with recipes from her ‘Cherokee family traditions’, to paraphrase. The Boston Globe has detailed the whole sordid story. Warren took the label of Native American on herself in a way that should be reserved for people who grow up culturally Native American, including who suffer the many prejudices faced by such folks.

The whole Native American thing, and the failed attempt to solve it by DNA testing, is a sign of ego and faulty judgment which give me pause about Warren - despite my wholehearted support for much of her platform.

[Lord Jim]

Now, after admitting he was in the photo, he's trying to claim he's not one of the characters in the picture...



He has a press conference scheduled for a few minutes from now...

[Lord Jim]

Warren didn’t just repeat the story of a native grandmother; she listed herself in the Harvard faculty guide as a Native American, which Harvard used to gain credit for numbers of minority faculty in its US News rankings. She contributed to a Native American themed cookbook with recipes from her ‘Cherokee family traditions’, to paraphrase. The Boston Globe has detailed the whole sordid story. Warren took the label of Native American on herself in a way that should be reserved for people who grow up culturally Native American, including who suffer the many prejudices faced by such folks.

The whole Native American thing, and the failed attempt to solve it by DNA testing, is a sign of ego and faulty judgment which give me pause about Warren - despite my wholehearted support for much of her platform.

I agree with every word...

(Well except for the last nine words, of course... )

I also agree that as out-of-line as what Warren did is, it's in no way shape or form in the same league as what Northam did...

Not anywhere close...

[Lord Jim]

What a load of horseshit...

His "I never saw it before yesterday, knew nothing about it, and am not in the photo" routine would have considerably more credibility if he had not admitted he was in the picture yesterday...

And his admission to doing a Michael Jackson routine in black face, accompanied by his assertion that "this is the kind of thing you would remember doing" makes his attempt to now try to deny he was in the photo, (after admitting it) look all the more bogus...

If this is the kind of thing he would remember doing, then when he allegedly saw the picture for the first time yesterday, why didn't he say, "No way, this can't possibly be me, I never did this."...

He has given no real explanation for why he didn't have this reaction, which based on his own words today is the reaction he should have had...

[ex-khobar Andy]

BSG said: "The Boston Globe has detailed the whole sordid story."

I haven't seen that: I was going by what Snopes had which is much more innocent. I'll take a look at the Globe story (do you have a link? - if not I'll find it) so if it agrees with what you've said (and I'm sure it does otherwise you would not have quoted it) I'll change my mind about Warren. Kind of like Blumenthal- he had ample opportunities to say - no, I wasn't in Vietnam - so although he generally says all the right things I don't trust him much.

I took another look at the Snopes story and lo! there is a link to the Globe story which I missed first time. Snopes:

In the most exhaustive review undertaken of Elizabeth Warren’s professional history, the Globe found clear evidence, in documents and interviews, that her claim to Native American ethnicity was never considered by the Harvard Law faculty, which voted resoundingly to hire her, or by those who hired her to four prior positions at other law schools. At every step of her remarkable rise in the legal profession, the people responsible for hiring her saw her as a white woman.

The Globe examined hundreds of documents, many of them never before available, and reached out to all 52 of the law professors who are still living and were eligible to be in [on the decision]. Some are Warren’s allies. Others are not. Thirty-one agreed to talk to the Globe — including the law professor who was, at the time, in charge of recruiting minority faculty. Most said they were unaware of her claims to Native American heritage and all but one of the 31 said those claims were not discussed as part of her hire. One professor told the Globe he is unsure whether her heritage came up, but is certain that, if it did, it had no bearing on his vote on Warren’s appointment.

[BoSoxGal]

It isn’t about whether she got her jobs by virtue of the claim; it’s that she’s a very white woman who grew up in a typical midwestern white culture NOT in a Native American setting by any stretch but yet she called herself Native American in various contexts. There is no question but that she did that.

[BoSoxGal]

I would suggest that whatever the sentiments behind Governor Northam’s choice to depict blackface and the KKK on his medical school yearbook page, his current handling of the situation is evidence enough that he doesn’t merit the trust of his current office.

Because now he’s saying he doesn’t know who was in the picture or how it got on his page - and it’s just a coincidence that in his VMI yearbook he is shown with the nickname ‘Coonman’.

[rubato]

We have a statute of limitation for a very good reason. One of the Royals committed the indiscretion of wearing a nazi uniform for halloween. It was a bonehead move. The Gov. has apologized more than sufficient. Move along.

Elizabeth Warren did nothing wrong. People who go through life wanting desperately to find motives to be offended gin up a tray of nothings. Let's leave this kind of weak bullshit to Republicans (email! Benghazi!).


yrs,
rubato

[Scooter]

For any Republicans who are gloating about the racist shoe being on a Democrat's foot in this case, I would point out one key difference: if this had been a Republican, there would have been a GOP army circling the wagons to defend him. Here, not a single Democrat has come to Northam's defence and every one who has spoken out is calling for his head.

[Joe Guy]

My original reaction was that it's just another retro-victim eruption by the forever offended crowd. It was 34 yrs ago, is there anyone here who hasn't done something stupid when they were 25 that they wouldn't do now? Don Lemon and his whining panel last night were screaming for his resignation and it had only been hours since the photo was released.

But if this doofus governor is saying that he can't even remember if he was in that picture, or worse, denying he was in it after apologizing for it, he is kinda stupid and should find another job.

[Econoline]

We have a statute of limitation for a very good reason.

I know I'm in a minority here, and I'm going to get a lot of flak for it, but I tend to agree with this. In most states only serious felonies with real, identifiable victims have no statute of limitations. If the punishment (for something as vague as "being a doofus, a bonehead, or an asshole in your 20s") is to be loss of ones current employment and future career, I think the rules need to be a lot more systematic and organized and not based on the emotions of a certain number of people at a certain point in time. (In the case of an elected official, there should probably be either a criminal prosecution or a recall election within some specified timeframe.)

I’m beyond shocked that this was never brought out in campaign by oppo research - how did it get missed?!

I can't help but think that both the timing and origin of this probably has to do with the current right-wing smear campaign (equating late-term abortion with infantacide) against Northam.

[Lord Jim]

the current right-wing smear campaign (equating late-term abortion with infantacide) against Northam.

Yeah, well, having watched the video of what he said in that radio interview several times, I can say Northam has absolutely no one but himself to blame for that one...

The words that came out of his mouth were a text book description of infanticide...

However on that one, I will take him at his word that he did not really mean to say what he said the way it came out...(simply because I find it almost impossible to believe that he actually intended to say something so blatantly appalling...)

I do have to say though, that based on that incident and the confusing, semi-coherent and contradictory "explanation" he gave at his press conference for why he admitted he was in the racist photo yesterday while today he is absolutely certain he wasn't, the governor certainly seems to have a very fraught relationship with the English language...

(As for the timing, I seriously doubt that somebody had been holding on to this thinking, "Okay we won't use it during the campaign; we'll wait till after he wins the election and then we'll continue to wait until he says something unbelievably stupid, and then we'll bring it out...")

Northam also seems to have a very defective copy of The Politician's Handbook For Wriggling Out Of A Scandal...

You're supposed to begin with The Blanket Denial, and then move to confessing only if and when the evidence becomes so insurmountable that you have no other choice...

Ralphie boy led with a confession, and now he's trying to use The Blanket Denial...

It, uh, really doesn't work when you do it in that order....

[rubato]

"The governor did share that he participated in a dance contest in San Antonio in 1984, darkening his face "as part of a Michael Jackson costume." But he never appeared in blackface again, he said."

Hey, Michael Jackson wore blackface!

This is just Republicans trying to get Democrats to shoot themselves and the knee-jerk pseudo-liberals obliging them.


yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

This is just Republicans trying to get Democrats to shoot themselves and the knee-jerk pseudo-liberals obliging them.

Spoken like a knee-jerk Democrat who can never admit to any fault or wrong-doing by any member of "his team"...

An excellent example of choosing political tribalism over the facts...