This kind of shit has to stop

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Econoline
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Re: This kind of shit has to stop

Post by Econoline »

Lord Jim wrote:The words that came out of his mouth were a text book description of infanticide...
What came out of his mouth clearly included the words "a fetus that’s not viable". NOT. VIABLE.

To save you the time and trouble:
    • viable adjective
      vi·​a·​ble | \ ˈvī-ə-bəl \
      Definition of viable

      1
      • a : capable of living
        b : of a fetus : having attained such form and development of organs as to be normally capable of surviving outside the uterus
        c : capable of growing or developing
      2
      • a : capable of working, functioning, or developing adequately
        viable alternatives
        b : capable of existence and development as an independent unit
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Lord Jim
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Re: This kind of shit has to stop

Post by Lord Jim »

Well, here's how Vox, (not generally known as a prominent participant in the "right-wing smear machine") covered it:
The controversy around Virginia’s new abortion bill, explained

Confusing comments by Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam have fed a firestorm around the new bill.

A bill to remove abortion restrictions in Virginia was always going to be controversial. But a contentious committee hearing, and some confusing comments by Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam, have turned debate over the bill into a nationwide furor.

Virginia House Bill 2491 would roll back a number of requirements, including a 24-hour waiting period and a mandate that second-trimester abortions take place in a hospital. Always something of a long shot in the Republican-controlled state legislature, the bill may now be doomed by the national firestorm surrounding it.

The controversy has centered on a provision concerning third-trimester abortions. Under current Virginia law, in order for a patient to terminate a pregnancy in the third trimester, three doctors must certify that continuing the pregnancy would likely cause the patient’s death or “substantially and irremediably impair” her mental or physical health. The new bill would reduce the number of doctors to one, and remove the “substantially and irremediably” qualifier — abortions would be allowed in cases where a mother’s mental or physical health is threatened, even if the damage might not be irreversible.

The bill began inspiring outcry among abortion opponents nationwide after its sponsor, Virginia Delegate Kathy Tran, said in a committee hearing on Monday that it would technically allow abortion until the point of birth, if a doctor agreed it was necessary.

Gov. Northam, a Democrat, was asked about the bill in a radio interview on Wednesday, and his response only added to the controversy. Appearing to discuss what would happen if a child was born after a failed attempt at abortion, he said, “the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”

Some took Northam’s comments as an endorsement of infanticide. “In just a few years pro-abortion zealots went from ‘safe, legal, and rare’ to ‘keep the newborns comfortable while the doctor debates infanticide,” said Sen. Ben Sasse (R-NE) in a statement on Wednesday.

A spokesperson for Gov. Northam told Vox his comments were “absolutely not” a reference to infanticide, and that they “focused on the tragic and extremely rare case in which a woman with a nonviable pregnancy or severe fetal abnormalities went into labor.” [Which was not at all clear from what he initially said, hence the need for the clarification.]

https://www.vox.com/2019/2/1/18205428/v ... ph-northam
con·fus·ing

/kənˈfyo͞oziNG/

adjective: confusing

bewildering or perplexing
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Scooter
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Re: This kind of shit has to stop

Post by Scooter »

Ambiguous, sure, but nothing in those words that suggest taking actions to kill an infant. Withholding treatment, perhaps, but anyone reading more than that is wanting to see something that isn't there.
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Joe Guy
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Re: This kind of shit has to stop

Post by Joe Guy »

...what would happen if a child was born after a failed attempt at abortion....
Good question considering the failed abortion epidemic we have in this country.

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Scooter
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Re: This kind of shit has to stop

Post by Scooter »

Deleted - wrong thread
Last edited by Scooter on Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu."

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rubato
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Re: This kind of shit has to stop

Post by rubato »

Lord Jim wrote:
This is just Republicans trying to get Democrats to shoot themselves and the knee-jerk pseudo-liberals obliging them.
Spoken like a knee-jerk Democrat who can never admit to any fault or wrong-doing by any member of "his team"...

An excellent example of choosing political tribalism over the facts...

I have said this many times before. Perhaps you should write it down this time, oldtimer?

I have never belonged to any political party. I have freely criticized Democrats on many occasions including Bill and Hillary, Alan Cranston, Gavin Newsom, FDR, JFK, and too many others to mention. But it is true that they have made both practical and moral mistakes they do not promote hatred as thoroughly and as often as Republicans. There is no Democratic equivalent to the bullshit "hate Hillary, hate Soros, hate Pelosi, hate Obama, hate Kerry" campaigns where there has never been anything of substance they have ever produced to hate them for.

yrs,
rubato

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Econoline
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Re: This kind of shit has to stop

Post by Econoline »

Sorry, but when it comes to removal of an elected official from office, I think there need to be some standards and procedures other than "Is the angry mob angry enough?"

IMO, absent extraordinary circumstances (e.g., actual criminal activity while in office), the ideal should be that someone PUT INTO office via the electoral process should REMOVED by the electoral process.

Off the top of my head, these are some of the questions that occur to me:
  • (1) What are the standards that apply to an act that suggests (or demands?) an elected official must leave office before completing their term? Examples? (Would co-founding and serving as Defense Minister and Chairman of the Illinois Black Panther Party apply? An extramarital affair? How about having an abortion in one's 20s or 30s? [What if it was an illegal abortion?] Do Republicans and Democrats get to have different standards? Why? What are some examples of acts which would warrant a Republican's removal without an impeachment, indictment, or election?)

    (2) Is there any age limit or statute of limitations that applies to an offense that demands resignation? (Do different limits apply to different offenses? Different political parties? Why or why not? If there is NO statute of limitations, why not, and why should the court of public opinion have stricter rules than, you know, an actual court?) And again: examples?

    (3) Why do we NEED another process for removal of an elected official besides primaries, elections, impeachment, litigation, and prosecution?
  • This kind of shit has to stop
:ok Well, yeah.
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
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Lord Jim
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Re: This kind of shit has to stop

Post by Lord Jim »

Will the last statewide elected official in Virginia to resign please turn out the lights...
Virginia’s top 3 elected officials engulfed in scandal

ICHMOND, Va. (AP) — The political crisis in Virginia spun out of control Wednesday when the state’s attorney general confessed to putting on blackface in the 1980s and a woman went public with detailed allegations of sexual assault against the lieutenant governor.

With Gov. Ralph Northam’s career already hanging by a thread over a racist photo in his 1984 medical school yearbook, the day’s developments threatened to take down all three of Virginia’s top elected officials, all of them Democrats.

The twin blows began with Attorney General Mark Herring issuing a statement acknowledging he wore brown makeup and a wig in 1980 to look like a rapper during a party when he was a 19-year-old student at the University of Virginia.

Herring — who had previously called on Northam to resign and was planning to run for governor himself in 2021 — apologized for his “callous” behavior and said that the days ahead “will make it clear whether I can or should continue to serve.”

The 57-year-old Herring came clean after rumors about the existence of a blackface photo of him began circulating at the Capitol, though he made no mention of a picture Wednesday.

Then, within hours, Vanessa Tyson, the California woman whose sexual assault allegations against Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax surfaced earlier this week, put out a detailed statement saying Fairfax forced her to perform oral sex on him in a hotel room in 2004 during the Democratic National Convention in Boston.

The Associated Press typically does not identify those who say they were sexually assaulted, but Tyson issued the statement in her name.

Tyson, a 42-year-old political scientist who is on a fellowship at Stanford University and specializes in the political discourse of sexual assault, said, “I have no political motive. I am a proud Democrat.”
More:

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/02/07 ... ege-party/
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Scooter
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Re: This kind of shit has to stop

Post by Scooter »

"I did blackface another time, but this time it wasn't me," does not strike me as a winning defensive strategy. But what do I know, I am Canadian and therefore cannot possibly understand why I am never supposed to view blackface as offensive.
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Burning Petard
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Re: This kind of shit has to stop

Post by Burning Petard »

"It was along time ago, It is Virginia, Boys will be boys. . . "

Last night I was with friends. Including a husband and wife couple much younger than me. He grew up in New Orleans, she in Fairfax, VA. She said that she was in medical school in Richmond VA in 1984. She was very upset about this and went on and on about how there just was no excuse. "We knew this was wrong back in 1980--just plain wrong--the Klan KILLED people; you just don't do blackface" Her husband sat quietly and let his wife rant. Rant she did. Finally he quietly said--the South knows about racism. But in the last couple of decades it has been covered up in our whole nation. There is a deep racism that is now bubbling up and revealed in the North where it was there, but not talked about.

I yield to his superior database.

snailgate

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RayThom
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This kind of shit has to stop

Post by RayThom »

It's time to play NAME THAT CELEBRITY:

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“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.” 

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Joe Guy
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Re: This kind of shit has to stop

Post by Joe Guy »

Whoopi Goldberg?

Big RR
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Re: This kind of shit has to stop

Post by Big RR »

Personally, I see a big difference between that sort of blackface which perpetuates racial stereotypes, and the use of makeup to dress up like someone of a different race--any race. Northam admitted to using blackface to dress up like Michael Jackson for a "dance routine" and I just don't see that as racist by itself. Jackson was black, and unless there was something racist about the amount of makeup used or the routine, I can't see that it was any more racist than a white person using black makeup to play Othello on stage (although why a black person is not cast is another matter), or the use of a skinhead wig to portray a bald person would be an affront to all bald people (or the use of orange makeup to play Trump would be an affront to pumpkins). Perpetuation of a stereotype or the use of minstrel type makeup like in the image Ray posted is clearly different IMHO; however, I would invite comments from people of color who see it different, how and why it is.

Not that I'm excusing Northam for the images on his own yearbook page (especially the Klan images)--those are things he has not explained and things he should be held to account for. And he may well have used the Jackson routine as a chance to foster stereotypes, in which case it would well have been racist.
Last edited by Big RR on Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: This kind of shit has to stop

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Liza's mom?

Big RR
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Re: This kind of shit has to stop

Post by Big RR »

If I'm not mistaken, that image looks like it's from Holiday Inn; if so, it's likely Marjorie Reynolds (Bing Crosby also appeared in blackface in that scene).

eta: Looking closer at the photo, I believe Andy is right (which I concede makes my answer wrong).
Last edited by Big RR on Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RayThom
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Re: This kind of shit has to stop

Post by RayThom »

ex-khobar Andy wrote:Liza's mom?
Exzactly... with a 'Z.'
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Lord Jim
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Re: This kind of shit has to stop

Post by Lord Jim »

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Big RR
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Re: This kind of shit has to stop

Post by Big RR »

Jim--that looks familiar but I can't quite place it. Can you give what it's from.

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Lord Jim
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Re: This kind of shit has to stop

Post by Lord Jim »

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Re: This kind of shit has to stop

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My mind is boggled.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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