Should ISIS 'brides' lose their citizenship?

rubato · Post by **rubato** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:31 am

I'm probably not serious about that last one. But I am curious what people think about this.

yrs,
rubato

RayThom · Post by **RayThom** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:51 am

We are a nation of laws.

She did not formally renounce her citizenship status thereby remaining a citizen of the United States. Allow her back in, arrest her, and try her case as a true "enemy of the people."

Now my strong opinion is that I don't care one way or the other. You'll not find me protesting this "injustice." I merely think she deserves a trial by jury.

Bicycle Bill · Post by **Bicycle Bill** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:09 am

Something like this certainly makes that infamous 45-year-old photo of Jane Fonda posing with that North Vietnamese anti-aircraft gun sorta cold potatoes, doesn't it?

A person who is born in America is in fact a citizen by virtue of the 14th Amendment, and this form of citizenship (known as 'birthright citizenship') may not be revoked against that person's will (which is why we had to let Fonda back in afterwards, too) ... although a natural-born American can renounce their citizenship on their own — and once you've done something like that, it's for keeps. You can't say, "Oh, I didn't really mean it," and retract the renunciation.

Naturalized citizens, however, can have their citizenship revoked through a process known as "denaturalization", and there are very specific grounds for this (I've highlighted the applicable one in this instance):

1) Falsification or Concealment of Relevant Facts:  You must be absolutely truthful when filling out paperwork and answering interview questions related to the naturalization application process.  Even if the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service (USCIS) fails to recognize any lies or ommissions at first, the agency may file a denaturalization action against you after citizenship has been granted.  Examples include failure to disclose criminal activities or lying about one's real name or identity.

2) Refusal to Testify Before Congress:  You may not refuse to testify before a U.S. congressional committee whose job it is to investigate your alleged involvement in subversive acts, such as those intended to harm U.S. officials or overthrow the U.S. government.  This requirement to testify in order to maintain citizenship status expires after 10 years.

3) Membership in Subversive Groups:  Your citizenship may be revoked if the U.S. government can prove that you joined a subversive organization within five years of becoming a naturalized citizen.  Membership in such organizations is considered a violation of the oath of U.S. allegiance.  Examples include the Nazi Party and Al Qaeda.  (so it sounds like if you wait for five years before becoming a Nazi or a member of ISIS, they can't take your citizenship away from you.)

4) Dishonorable Military Discharge:  Since you may become a naturalized U.S. citizen by virtue of serving in the U.S. military, your citizenship may be revoked if you are dishonorably discharged before serving five years.  Reasons for dishonorable discharge, which must follow a general court-martial, include desertion and sexual assault.

So while in my opinion she does not deserve to be let back into the country — she made her bed, now let her lie in it — everything I've read indicates that she was born in the USA. Therefore I must agree with RayThom and select option '2' here. Let her back in and, if she has in fact violated any laws concerning acts committed against the US, then charge her with the same and let due process take its course.

-"BB"-

dales · Post by **dales** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:44 am

Right now 100 per cent of the voters agree with my answer.

Burning Petard · Post by **Burning Petard** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:42 pm

'"Deserve" ? ? That is not a question for the courts. Our natural vs 'naturalized' citizen laws are a mess. The natural-born citizen can pay money to Isle of Mann or Republic of Ireland or many other states and buy citizenship or be declared a national resource as an artist and beat USA income tax--legally carry both USA and foreign passport; be dual citizens of both states. But the 'naturalized' citizen swears an oath that they renounce all connections to other sovereignties; at least in theory they cannot maintain dual citizenship. Please note that POTUS has NOT ended program where rich foreigners can buy a visa to permit them to live in the USA. It is rationalized as a program to pull in foreign capital for local investment and job creation.

Here and abroad, governments follow the golden rule--he who has the gold makes the rules.

On the poll at the head of this thread, I check both the first and the second. They are citizens of the USA. They should be tried in USA criminal court,

Gob · Post by **Gob** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:15 pm

Two more jihadi brides who joined Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant are believed to have been stripped of their UK citizenship while living in a refugee camp in Syria.

The disclosure came as a row intensified over the death of a three-week-old baby whose mother Shamima Begum had been stripped of her British citizenship.

Reema Iqbal, 30, along with her sister Zara Iqbal, 28, are mothers of five children between them, and are also in a camp. Legal sources told the Sunday Times that the sisters have had their citizenship removed after marrying into a terror cell linked to the execution of western hostages.

A decision to remove their citizenship will fuel fears over what happens to the children of jihadi brides.

The two women left Newham in London in 2013 for the co-called Isil caliphate. At least one of their sons was born in the UK and was taken to Syria.

The women's parents are originally from Pakistan, and the Home Office could pursue the argument that they are Pakistani nationals.

Fuck them, let them rot in the hell holes they chose to support.

MajGenl.Meade · Post by **MajGenl.Meade** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:49 pm

A decision to remove their citizenship will fuel fears over what happens to the children of jihadi brides

I support a woman's right to choose. Don't I?

Gob · Post by **Gob** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:13 am

A teenage jihadi bride who fled Melbourne to fight with the Islamic State in Syria boasted at the height of the bloodthirsty group's reign of terror about how she would only come home to Australia when it was 'part of the Islamic State'.

Now, four years later, with her husband dead and the so-called Islamic caliphate in ruins, Zehra Duman, 24, is begging to come home, claiming her two children have the right to be treated like any other 'normal kids' in Australia.

LOL!!

wesw · Post by **wesw** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:19 am

just give em to the Mormons.....

wesw · Post by **wesw** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:20 am

shot for treason?

why isn t that an option?

I call bullshit.

Lord Jim · Post by **Lord Jim** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:03 am

shot for treason?

Well, just for appearances sake, he should probably get a trial first...

liberty · Post by **liberty** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:14 am

No, why should they be treated any different than Jane Fonda? Jane Fonda was never charged with a crime; why should they be prosecuted?

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