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You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:23 am
by Lord Jim
A whole new list of things to be offended by!
The 'OK' Hand Gesture Is Now Listed As A Symbol Of Hate

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The "OK" hand gesture, commonly seen as a way of indicating that all is well, has now been classified as something else: a symbol of hate.

On Thursday, the Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish civil rights organization, added 36 symbols to its "Hate on Display" database including the index finger-to-thumb sign that in some corners of the Internet has become associated with white supremacy and the far right.

Oren Segal, director of the ADL's Center on Extremism, told NPR that for years on fringe online message boards such as 4chan and 8chan, the "OK" sign has been deployed in memes and other images promoting hate. Given the number of white supremacists who have adopted it, he said it can now carry a nefarious message.

"Context is always key," Segal said. "More people than not will use the OK symbol as just 'OK.' But in those cases where there's more underlining meaning, I think it's important for people to understand that it could be used, and is being used, for hate as well."

According to the website Know Your Meme, as a prank, 4chan users in 2017 launched a campaign to flood social media with posts linking the "OK" hand gesture to the white power movement. Commenters on the message board appropriated images of people posing in the White House and other locations making the hand symbol as proof that it was catching on.

Segal said that while many of those images were misconstrued by users on the online message boards, the number of people espousing hate while using the gesture has grown so widespread that it can no longer be considered a prank.

Segal pointed to the suspected white supremacist in Christchurch, New Zealand, accused of killing 51 worshippers at two mosques in March, who flashed the "OK" hand gesture during an initial court appearance.

"Over the past couple years, we've seen that the hoax was essentially successful in being applied by actual white supremacists," Segal said.

"In many ways, they took what was a trolling effort and added it to their list of symbols," he added.

The ADL established its "Hate on Display" database in 2000 as a way to help track hate groups and their symbols for law enforcement, educators and other members of the public hoping to spot potential warnings signs of anti-Semitism and other types of extremism. Since then, the database has grown to include 214 entries.

One of the more prominent additions to the database, back in September 2016, was Pepe the Frog, the big-eyed green cartoon that became a kind of mascot of the alt-right.

Other symbols among the 36 added on Thursday include "Dylann Roof's Bowlcut,"[That makes sense...Anybody who's ever watched a Three Stooges movie knows that Moe guy was definitely a hater...] a reference to the haircut worn by the white supremacist gunman who killed nine African-Americans at the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, S.C.

Followers of Roof have incorporated the distinctive haircut into screen names such as "Bowltrash" or "The Final Bowlution" or collectively have referred to themselves as the "Bowl Gang," according to the ADL.

Another addition is "The Moon Man," a meme derived from 1980s-era McDonald's commercials that has since been hijacked by members of the alt-right, who attach racist songs, language and imagery around it.

Jonathan Greenblatt, the ADL's CEO, said in a statement that old symbols, gestures and other images are rapidly acquiring new, hateful associations that may be too obscure for the general public to understand.

"We believe law enforcement and the public needs to be fully informed about the meaning of these images, which can serve as a first warning sign to the presence of haters in a community or school," he said.
https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/76472816 ... ol-of-hate

Re: You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:27 am
by Joe Guy
Thanks, Jim.

I'm sure glad there are people who keep us up to date on what should offend us. So, in the interest of keeping everyone educated, I thought people should know that the following hand gesture's definition has been updated and now means, "Have a Nice Day".....

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Re: You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:23 pm
by ex-khobar Andy
Jonathan Greenblatt, the ADL's CEO, said in a statement that old symbols, gestures and other images are rapidly acquiring new, hateful associations that may be too obscure for the general public to understand.
This is not new: the swastika (and yes, I am well aware of Godwin's Law) was for millennia a good luck symbol but since Hitler hijacked it in the 1920's it has one meaning. It would be absurd for me to fly a Nazi flag - or even one of my own design incorporating a swastika - and explain to my neighbors that I am simply expressing a desire for our common welfare.

The OK sign (Jim's post) is internationally used by SCUBA divers to ask (Are you OK?) or to indicate (I'm OK). We were always taught to do it very crisply with the three fingers tightly together and straight. I don't think that there was a 'white power' connotation in those days (supposedly the thumb and forefinger and the middle finger form a 'P' while the three end fingers signify a 'W' - White Power) but if you keep those fingers tight there is no 'W.'

I know that sometimes these words and gestures can be reclaimed. The LGBTQ community has managed to at least partially reclaim 'queer' but the word retains a pejorative sense to me and I wouldn't use it. I doubt that the swastika can ever be reclaimed.

Re: You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:47 pm
by Lord Jim
since Hitler hijacked it in the 1920's it has one meaning
I think that last part is the key:

"it has one meaning"...

That is certainly not true of the "OK" hand gesture...

The Christian cross has been perversely used as a symbol by the Klan and other racist groups going back for over 100 years...

Should the Christian cross therefore be declared a "hate symbol"?

Just because some sickos decide to co-opt a symbol, gesture, name, etc. does NOT make it ipso facto a "hate symbol"...

If a group of racists decide to start calling themselves "The Anti-Defamation League" will the ADL declare the name of their own organization to be a "hate symbol"?

Let's apply just a little commonsense here; there is world of difference between a swastika and the "OK" hand gesture....I doubt that folks of even the most average intelligence have the slightest problem grasping this....

A cynical person (which of course would not be me) might conclude that the ADL, much like right-wing religious types who rail against things like Halloween and allegedly gay tele-tubbies, compiled this list and put out this press release primarily for the purpose of garnering publicity and raising money...

Re: You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:30 pm
by Scooter
I think that the ADL's own compiliation of these symbols is pretty clear about which have been created specifically by white supremacist and other hate groups, and those which are otherwise common symbols (numbers, etc.) that have been appropriated by them to convey their own messages. This is what they have to say about the OK gesture:
A common hand gesture that a 4chan trolling campaign claimed in 2017 had been appropriated as a symbol meaning "white power." Used by many on the right--not just extremists--for the purpose of trolling liberals, the symbol eventually came to be used by actual white supremacists as well. Caution must be used in evaluating instances of this symbol's use.
Emphasis added.

What the ADL is clearly NOT saying, is that the OK gesture has become the exclusive preserve of white supremacists, or that it should always be assumed to be an expression of white power, or that its use should be avoided by anyone other than white supremacists lest it be taken as such.

Should the ADL have instead chosen not to add this gesture (and other commonly used symbols) to its list of hate symbols, even though it clearly is being used by white supremacists to convey a "white power" message?

Re: You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:45 pm
by Lord Jim

Re: You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:44 pm
by MajGenl.Meade
Jonathan Greenblatt, the ADL's CEO, said in a statement that old symbols, gestures and other images are rapidly acquiring new, hateful associations that may be too obscure for the general public to understand
Sooo . . . he wants old symbols, gestures and other images to be less obscure so we can all understand?

Re: You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:15 pm
by BoSoxGal
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Re: You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:16 pm
by BoSoxGal
Scooter wrote:I think that the ADL's own compiliation of these symbols is pretty clear about which have been created specifically by white supremacist and other hate groups, and those which are otherwise common symbols (numbers, etc.) that have been appropriated by them to convey their own messages. This is what they have to say about the OK gesture:
A common hand gesture that a 4chan trolling campaign claimed in 2017 had been appropriated as a symbol meaning "white power." Used by many on the right--not just extremists--for the purpose of trolling liberals, the symbol eventually came to be used by actual white supremacists as well. Caution must be used in evaluating instances of this symbol's use.
Emphasis added.

What the ADL is clearly NOT saying, is that the OK gesture has become the exclusive preserve of white supremacists, or that it should always be assumed to be an expression of white power, or that its use should be avoided by anyone other than white supremacists lest it be taken as such.

Should the ADL have instead chosen not to add this gesture (and other commonly used symbols) to its list of hate symbols, even though it clearly is being used by white supremacists to convey a "white power" message?
Thank you.

Re: You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:42 am
by Lord Jim
Should the ADL have instead chosen not to add this gesture (and other commonly used symbols) to its list of hate symbols, even though it clearly is being used by white supremacists to convey a "white power" message?
Well, here's what I would suggest:

You don't create one long list of "hate symbols" that includes swastikas, burning crosses, and the "OK" hand gesture and bowl haircuts...

You try to be a little more helpful and nuanced then that...

Maybe one list for clear-cut hate symbols (like swastikas, burning crosses, hate group insignias etc.) and another list of symbols, (hand gestures, haircuts, etc.) that racists sometimes use to convey racist meanings, but that generally have completely benign meanings, (or no particular meaning at all)

Of course while a more intellectually honest approach, it lacks the drama and publicity-getting impact of putting the "OK" hand gesture on the same "hate symbol" list as the swastika...

It would however, also have the beneficial impact not making the ADL look so silly...

Re: You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:26 am
by ex-khobar Andy
It's probably poor reporting more than anything.

I took a look at the database. In the entry for the okay hand gesture, it very clearly makes the point that by far the most common usage is as OK, and that there is a danger of assigning the wrong meaning to its use. The nuance is all there. There is no point in having multiple databases.
The overwhelming usage of the “okay” hand gesture today is still its traditional purpose as a gesture signifying assent or approval. As a result, someone who uses the symbol cannot be assumed to be using the symbol in either a trolling or, especially, white supremacist context unless other contextual evidence exists to support the contention. Since 2017, many people have been falsely accused of being racist or white supremacist for using the “okay” gesture in its traditional and innocuous sense.

Re: You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:14 pm
by BoSoxGal
Image

Universal Studios employee fired for displaying hate symbol while posing with autistic 7 year old black girl.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -sign.html

Re: You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:03 pm
by Joe Guy
'It’s more than the "OK" sign. A lot of people don’t understand what that sign means,' Richard Zinger told USA Today.
That's good parenting. You should always let as many people as possible know when you think your child has been insulted.

Re: You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:09 pm
by Scooter
Exposing a low life who has used their child to telegraph a racist message? This would be wrong because...?

Re: You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:59 pm
by Joe Guy
Because the whole world doesn't need to be told that your child, who wouldn't have otherwise known the difference, was an apparent victim of a white supremacist while letting everyone on the internet view the photo.

Instead of teaching her how she should be outraged and suspect of all white people and anyone dressed as a cartoon character, the parents could have handled this privately.

Re: You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:18 pm
by Scooter
Your concern trolling about the welfare of the child is duly noted.

Re: You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:57 pm
by Joe Guy
'It can cause emotional stress on my child and her development,' Tiffiney said.
Let's see. What would cause more stress for an autistic child?

1) Talking to someone in Universal Studios' management about a privately owned photo taken months ago that you just recognized has a hand gesture used by racists displayed by one of their employees?

Or....

2) Bringing the world's attention to your child by going to the media and giving them the photo to display on the internet, voicing your outrage in as many interviews as possible and letting everyone know you're hiring a lawyer ?

Tough call....

You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:22 pm
by RayThom
I see Universal has rightfully fired the racist employee.

Hmm! I wonder if the ulterior motive of this child's parents might be for social media attention and/or money?

Regardless, the poor kid's life has now taken a turn for the worse.

Re: You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:10 pm
by BoSoxGal
I’m glad that Universal Studios was properly dismayed about this incident, unlike some. What possible good would it do a child to be kept sheltered about the racism in our society, when every day the news contains more evidence that for people of color it is often a life or death issue? Brown kids this girl’s age are living in cages and others her age or only slightly older are being arrested for misbehaving at school; our country is sick with racism and there is nothing to be gained by being quiet about it so we don’t offend old white privileged folks.

Re: You'll like this Joe...

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:22 pm
by Joe Guy
I see. It's important that autistic black 7 yr old children be taught that a lot of white people are evil and that all people of color are victims or potential victims.

Sometimes I think this board is underrepresented by millennial-sympathetic post menopausal underprivileged people. It would be helpful to hear more of their opinions on any given subject.