Slow Joe is a no go?

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ex-khobar Andy
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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

I don't know how to say this politely.

Biden's accuser says that he pushed her against a wall and inserted his finger(s) into her vagina.

Given that this was 1993 and she was wearing a skirt, I'm guessing she had on panty hose. It was more or less de rigeur in those days, in an office setting and the US Senate was more conservative than most workplaces. In fact according to Wikipedia's entry on pantyhose (tights to our English readers)
From 1995 a steady decline began, leveling off in 2006 with U.S. sales less than half of what they had once been. This decline has been attributed to bare legs in fashion, changes in workplace dress code, and the increased popularity of trousers.
This accords with my recollection. Obviously a fashion trend is no kind of proof that she was or was not wearing them.

I am by no means going to paint myself as some kind of sexual expert. However, in my limited experience with cooperating and suitably garbed young women, this is not easy.

This is not the main reason I have for disbelieving Ms Reade. In the same way that Kavanaugh's behavior (his year book entry and his subsequent 'innocent' explanations) makes me believe Dr Blasey Ford, Biden's general behavior leads me to disbelieve this accusation.

I have no doubt that others will weigh in and tell me I am wrong: and I am certainly willing to be convinced.

Edited to correct a typo.

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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

An older black generation fought through Jim Crow only for Biden to help make sure that their children and grandchildren lived through a new Jim Crow
Yes, I'd quite forgotten that the children and grandchildren of an older black generation were totally opposed to laws, protection of life and property, and a civil society. They are, after all, indistinguishable from white racist militias. Silly me.
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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Darren wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:15 am
... then-senator Biden argued that George HW Bush’s crime plan did not go far enough because it did not “include enough police officers to catch the violent thugs, not enough prosecutors to convict them, not enough judges to sentence them, and not enough prison cells to put them away for a long time”. An older black generation fought through Jim Crow only for Biden to help make sure that their children and grandchildren lived through a new Jim Crow."
"Jim Crow" was the name of the racial caste system which operated primarily, but not exclusively in southern and border states, between 1877 and the mid-1960s.  "Jim Crow" was more than a series of rigid anti-black laws; it was a way of life.  Under "Jim Crow", African Americans were relegated to the status of second class citizens.  "Jim Crow" represented the legitimization of anti-black racism.

A person can't help being born black; but black or white, they can make the conscious decision to not become a criminal.  Defining crimes and prosecuting those people who commit these crimes is NOT "Jim Crow".
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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by Darren »

Bicycle Bill wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:57 am
Darren wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:15 am
... then-senator Biden argued that George HW Bush’s crime plan did not go far enough because it did not “include enough police officers to catch the violent thugs, not enough prosecutors to convict them, not enough judges to sentence them, and not enough prison cells to put them away for a long time”. An older black generation fought through Jim Crow only for Biden to help make sure that their children and grandchildren lived through a new Jim Crow."
"Jim Crow" was the name of the racial caste system which operated primarily, but not exclusively in southern and border states, between 1877 and the mid-1960s.  "Jim Crow" was more than a series of rigid anti-black laws; it was a way of life.  Under "Jim Crow", African Americans were relegated to the status of second class citizens.  "Jim Crow" represented the legitimization of anti-black racism.

A person can't help being born black; but black or white, they can make the conscious decision to not become a criminal.  Defining crimes and prosecuting those people who commit these crimes is NOT "Jim Crow".
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The War on Drugs has had a vastly disparate effect on Black youth. Incarcerating people for weed busts has packed prisons which includes the for profit prisons. When you start out disadvantaged due to familial issues (no father at home), a screwed up educational system, and no jobs in the hood that offer a way up, drugs are a route to money in your pocket.

Of course you already knew that and chose to ignore that young Blacks don't have a lot of options.

For extra points what's the gang related death count so far this year in Chicago? It's up from last year.
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Scooter
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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by Scooter »

I'm sorry, but are we to believe that Trump (and presumably Republicans in general) are going to be running to the left of Biden on issues of crime and punishment, such that Trump (you know, the guy who referred to Nazis and while supremacists as "very nice people" in the wake of the Charlottesville massacre) is somehow going to siphon off black support that Biden will need to win? Or are we perhaps expected to believe that Biden, whose campaign for the nomination was literally resurrected from the dead because he was the overwhelming favourite of black voters, will somehow lose the enthusiasm of black voters between now and election day because of things they already knew about him?

Because absent one or both of these two things, neither of which has a snowball's chance in hell of happening, why do you imagine that any of this matters in the slightest to the election result?
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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by Darren »

Scooter wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:09 pm
I'm sorry, but are we to believe that Trump (and presumably Republicans in general) are going to be running to the left of Biden on issues of crime and punishment, such that Trump (you know, the guy who referred to Nazis and while supremacists as "very nice people" in the wake of the Charlottesville massacre) is somehow going to siphon off black support that Biden will need to win? Or are we perhaps expected to believe that Biden, whose campaign for the nomination was literally resurrected from the dead because he was the overwhelming favourite of black voters, will somehow lose the enthusiasm of black voters between now and election day because of things they already knew about him?

Because absent one or both of these two things, neither of which has a snowball's chance in hell of happening, why do you imagine that any of this matters in the slightest to the election result?
Did you miss the fact that industrial hemp is now legal in the US?

Likewise did you miss the fact that Trump had the US embassy in Israel moved to Jerusalem?

Both, in a sense, solved the problem of a Gordian knot. I expect no less with righting the wrongs of the War on Drugs. Did you also miss the economic zones enacted in the tax legislation last year?
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Scooter
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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by Scooter »

So you are expecting Trump to campaign on ending the War on Drugs? Ok....

Clearly you indulge in some substance(s) to a much greater degree than I would have imagined about you.
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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by Scooter »

Image

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Last edited by Scooter on Sat May 23, 2020 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BoSoxGal
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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by BoSoxGal »

ex-khobar Andy wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:48 am
I don't know how to say this politely.

Biden's accuser says that he pushed her against a wall and inserted his finger(s) into her vagina.

Given that this was 1993 and she was wearing a skirt, I'm guessing she had on panty hose. It was more or less de rigeur in those days, in an office setting and the US Senate was more conservative than most workplaces. In fact according to Wikipedia's entry on pantyhose (tights to our English readers)
From 1995 a steady decline began, leveling off in 2006 with U.S. sales less than half of what they had once been. This decline has been attributed to bare legs in fashion, changes in workplace dress code, and the increased popularity of trousers.
This accords with my recollection. Obviously a fashion trend is no kind of proof that she was or was not wearing them.

I am by no means going to paint myself as some kind of sexual expert. However, in my limited experience with cooperating and suitably garbed young women, this is not easy.

This is not the main reason I have for disbelieving Ms Reade. In the same way that Kavanaugh's behavior (his year book entry and his subsequent 'innocent' explanations) makes me believe Dr Blasey Ford, Biden's general behavior leads me to disbelieve this accusation.

I have no doubt that others will weigh in and tell me I am wrong: and I am certainly willing to be convinced.

Edited to correct a typo.
Reade claims she wasn’t wearing hose that day because of the heat, but that doesn’t entirely square with the timeline she has given of the assault. I agree that bare legs were less likely on the Hill in the early 90s, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility - especially considering that Reade was admonished for her unprofessional work attire. She claims this was retaliation for her complaints of sexual harassment, but coworkers recall that she did, in fact, dress unprofessionally and that others in the office were made uncomfortable by her attire.

More relevant than the hose or no hose is the assertion that Biden assaulted her in that manner in a Senate office building complex corridor- as I asserted in a prior post, this is essentially absurd considering the level of human traffic that would be present in those hallways at all but the very latest and earliest hours of the day. My comments on that matter are supported in the recent PBS investigation.

I’m convinced now that she is lying. I encourage anyone still on the fence to watch the excellent investigative segment that aired on PBS NewsHour May 15 (free to watch on the PBS website) and to read this recent piece in NYT, which details how extensively Reade has lied about her educational credentials and professional background - to the point that numerous domestic violence convictions are now being reviewed because Reade was the ‘expert’ witness who misrepresented her academic background and possibly also her experience in the work of DV advocacy. Reade told people she was a legislative aide who worked on the drafting of the VAWA bill in Biden’s office; in reality she handled interns and constituent mail and at least one fellow staffer recalls she struggled with the workload, may have destroyed mail because she couldn’t keep up, was reassigned and eventually let go because of those performance issues.

I suspect Reade has mental illness issues as her emerging history bears remarkable resemblance to clients and defendants I encountered over the years who suffered with borderline personality disorder.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... .amp.html
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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by Scooter »

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Scooter
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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by Scooter »

Shall we remember what Republicans have had to say in the past about sexual assault while they feign concern about Tara Reade:

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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Darren wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:16 pm

Likewise did you miss the fact that Trump had the US embassy in Israel moved to Jerusalem?

Both, in a sense, solved the problem of a Gordian knot. I expect no less with righting the wrongs of the War on Drugs. Did you also miss the economic zones enacted in the tax legislation last year?
I really should stop trying to follow Darren's logic. It's a trail that usually leads nowhere.

However I assume the above is attempting to show how Trump solves Gordian knots. Remember that the original knot was taken care of by Alexander the Great who used a sword. The original rubric to the test was that the knot had to be disentangled: Alexander, who didn't like rules, used a sword.

The US embassy move to Jerusalem was an allegorical knot with no solution to fit all. Certainly the majority of American Jews did not support. According to a 2017 American Jewish Congress survey

Image

Ignoring the knot, which represents competing and contradictory interests, is hardly a solution.

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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by Darren »

ex-khobar Andy wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:12 pm
Darren wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:16 pm

Likewise did you miss the fact that Trump had the US embassy in Israel moved to Jerusalem?

Both, in a sense, solved the problem of a Gordian knot. I expect no less with righting the wrongs of the War on Drugs. Did you also miss the economic zones enacted in the tax legislation last year?
I really should stop trying to follow Darren's logic. It's a trail that usually leads nowhere.

However I assume the above is attempting to show how Trump solves Gordian knots. Remember that the original knot was taken care of by Alexander the Great who used a sword. The original rubric to the test was that the knot had to be disentangled: Alexander, who didn't like rules, used a sword.

The US embassy move to Jerusalem was an allegorical knot with no solution to fit all. Certainly the majority of American Jews did not support. According to a 2017 American Jewish Congress survey

Image

Ignoring the knot, which represents competing and contradictory interests, is hardly a solution.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The issue is simple, the solution not as evident, Still the embassy move along with eliminating money for terrorist support is getting there.

The embassy move was a message that diplomacy had reached a dead end and other means were on the table. With Iran sidelined progress is even more likely.

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Scooter
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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by Scooter »

So that means that Trump is going to do what, exactly, wrt drugs? Legalize them all? Empty the prisons of those convicted of drug offenses?

Please tell us all about this Damacus road conversion on drug policy that is going to bring black voters flocking to the MAGAt banner.
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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by Darren »

Scooter wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:43 pm
So that means that Trump is going to do what, exactly, wrt drugs? Legalize them all? Empty the prisons of those convicted of drug offenses?

Please tell us all about this Damacus road conversion on drug policy that is going to bring black voters flocking to the MAGAt banner.
Ever hear the joke, Why do cows look sad?

If you got milked everyday and only got fucked once a year you'd look sad too. Blacks are tired of the Democrat plantation.

Blacks may not swarm to Trump. They didn't swarm to Clinton either. If they turn out for Biden like Clinton, that's a killer for Democrat hopes and dreams.

I'll give Biden an attaboy if he picks Val Demings as his VP. Of course we already know slow Joe will need help to find the acorn.
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Scooter
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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by Scooter »

So your answer is that Trump isn't going to do anything to attract black support, and you are instead relying on black voters to stay home.

Apparently you missed what happened in the primary season, when blacks rallied to Biden in numbers that rivalled the support that Obama had received. Any reason you believe they have since changed their minds and will be sitting out in November? Nah, didn't think so.

It's always fun to watch white conservatives use plantation analogies to pretend they know what is going on in the minds of blacks. It gives away that you wish you could keep them "in their place" like in the good old days.
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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Let me see if I've got this right now. It's so difficult
The enforcement of laws has had a vastly disparate effect on criminals
OK. Got it :shrug
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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Darren wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:51 pm
The War on Drugs has had a vastly disparate effect on Black youth. Incarcerating people for weed busts has packed prisons which includes the for profit prisons. When you start out disadvantaged due to familial issues (no father at home), a screwed up educational system, and no jobs in the hood that offer a way up, drugs are a route to money in your pocket.

Of course you already knew that and chose to ignore that young Blacks don't have a lot of options.
So your solution is to turn your head and let them do their drugs, run in their gangs, and whatever else goes on (like petty theft, drive-by shootings, and the 'Knockout' game, among other examples) instead of trying to resolve the underlying causes.

BRAAAAPPP!!!

Sorry, wrong answer, but thanks for playing.
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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by Econoline »

Biden says something stupid every few days... Trump says something stupid every few seconds.
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Re: Slow Joe is a no go?

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Econoline wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 6:19 am
Biden says something stupid every few days... Trump says something stupid every few seconds.
An excellent commentary from Chris Cillizza on the CNN website making exactly that point:
(CNN)On Friday morning, Joe Biden said something dumb -- and offensive.

"Well I tell you what, if you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black," Biden told Charlemagne tha God in a radio interview for "The Breakfast Club."

He apologized later that day, saying he "shouldn't have been such a wise guy" in the interview with Charlemagne.

President Donald Trump -- and his allies -- seized on the Biden comment expressing their horror that the presumptive Democratic nominee would so glibly take the votes of African Americans for granted. Trump's campaign quickly produced "You Ain't Black" t-shirts and sent their surrogates out to condemn the former vice president.

"I have struggled with Biden's recent remarks," tweeted former Trump administration ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley on Saturday afternoon. "They were gut wrenchingly condescending. Regardless of color, gender, or class, to label any individual with what he or she is expected to think, believe, and vote is demeaning and disrespectful. Not to mention arrogant and entitled."

Which, fine. Biden was wrong. He shouldn't have said it.

But, the outrage summoned by Haley and her ilk seems to miss one big reality: Trump says and does things on an almost-daily basis that far exceed the inappropriateness of Biden's comment. And yet, there is silence from the same people so willing to leap to condemn Biden. Just to prove my point, let's go through just some of what Trump has tweeted and retweeted between Friday morning -- when Biden made his "ain't black" remark and Sunday morning.
* Retweeted a post calling 2016 Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton a "skank."
* Retweeted a post suggesting -- contrary to science -- that hydroxychloroquine is an effective treatment for coronavirus, adding these words: "Many physicians agree with you. Also, some very good studies!"
* Retweeted a photo of former 2018 Georgia gubernatorial nominee Stacy Abrams that included these words: "She fought a tough race, kissed a lot of babies and visited every buffet restaurant in the State."
* Retweeted two doctored photos of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi -- one with a Trump 2020 face mask on and one with duct tape over her mouth. The tweet said: "To protect PolyGrip during this pandemic, we have developed 2 options. With the DJT option, she will be able to tongue and adjust her dentures more easily. With duct tape, she won't be able to drink booze on the job as much."
* Tweeted, with no evidence or proof, that mail-in ballots will produce "the greatest Rigged Election in history."
* Retweeted an article about the death of an intern in then-Florida Rep. Joe Scarborough's office, adding: "So a young marathon runner just happened to faint in his office, hit her head on his desk, & die? I would think there is a lot more to this story than that?"
* Tweeted this unfounded speculation about the 1990s death of the intern in Scarborough's office: "A blow to her head? Body found under his desk? Left Congress suddenly? Big topic of discussion in Florida...and, he's a Nut Job (with bad ratings). Keep digging, use forensic geniuses!"
* Tweeted that former Attorney General Jeff Sessions should drop out of the Alabama Senate race -- accusing him of having "no courage, & ruined many lives."

That's all in the last 48 hours.

So, you can see why the shock and horror that Trumpworld is expressing over Biden's admittedly dumb comment is a little bit hard to take. If you want to act like Biden's "you ain't black" remark is the worst thing you've ever heard while simply ignoring the President of the United States suggesting a) a former Congressman -- and now cable TV host -- committed a murder (with zero evidence) b) the former Secretary of State is a "skank" c) a former gubernatorial nominee is overweight and d) the Speaker of the House has a drinking problem, it's going to be very hard for me to consider your upset as genuine.

And, by the way, you don't get off the hook by simply rolling your eyes and saying something like "That's just how Trump talks." Yes, it is. But, to give Trump some sort of pass because he has so lowered the bar of acceptable behavior in a president is to normalize him -- and in so doing allow him to be judged by a different standard than Biden is being held to.

I've said -- and written -- many times that one of the tactics Trump has employed throughout his campaign and his presidency is to say so many outrageous things that the bar for writing about them or commenting on them is lowered beneath the floor.

It's like in a basketball game if one side fouls the other team on every play. The refs are forced to decide whether, as the rules suggest, to call a foul on every play and foul the one team out in the first quarter or to change the way in which they officiate the game -- thereby allowing the one team a level of leeway in terms of fouls and on-the-court conduct that the other team doesn't enjoy.

That's what Trump is doing here. Suggesting that Biden's comment is somehow the worst thing that has ever been said by a politician even as the President himself says five things more offensive -- by any objective measure in a 24-hour period. Trump's behavior -- this weekend and almost all the time -- is not normal. It doesn't make what Biden said right. It isn't. But it sure as heck calls into question those Republicans who are shocked -- SHOCKED! -- at Biden's comment and choose to somehow miss all of the offensive things the President says.

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