There is war in the streets of America tonight

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BoSoxGal
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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

Post by BoSoxGal »

The destruction of property is sad, but it is not a tragedy. Insurance will allow business owners and churches to rebuild.

Humans lives lost to abuse of the license to use force can never be replaced, and the losses destroy many other lives in the process. THAT is a tragedy.

If you treat people like animals, they will behave like animals. Imagine if every police force in every city had taken the approach of some shown - to march in solidarity with the peaceful protesters. Then BOTH could have been a bulwark against the very few who are using this opportunity to destroy and steal.

I don’t condone the vandalism or looting, but I hope the protests continue until legislation is passed and policy changes are announced from the White House. Our economy is fucked, 40 million of us are out of work with bleak prospects for the near future, and a great many of us are locked down anyway - might as well be out in the streets masked and marching. If my health was better I would join them, I am very sad that I can’t.
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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

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Darren
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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

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"Rioters on Sunday evening set fire to the offices of the American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations (AFL-CIO) union.

Rioters set ablaze the AFL-CIO union offices during the fourth night of protests over the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

BREAKING: DC’s AFL-CIO Building On Fire. The International Union Of Police Associations is an affiliate union. Reporting form @ABC7HeatherGraf Live overage on @ABC7News https://t.co/n4hrNhlSGB pic.twitter.com/oXh02Qnsui

— Alex Spearman 7️⃣ (@AlexJSpearman) June 1, 2020"
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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

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MLK was murdered precisely because he was becoming more militant in his thinking and preaching, and planning to join forces with Malcolm X. For 50+ years moderate whites have pointed to him as proof that things were changed for the better, while the wealth gap between whites and blacks is hardly unchanged, the Voting Rights Act that was never fully realized has been eviscerated, de facto segregation in many school systems (Boston is a good example) is even worse than before Brown v. Board, etc. We have black millionaire athletes and musicians and movie stars and influencers, and black academics and business leaders and we even had a half black president- but the vast majority of black Americans still face nearly insurmountable obstacles to meaningful participation in the American Dream. I believe MLK would despair at the current state of things - and I don’t mean the protests. But then had he lived, had Malcolm X lived, had RFK lived - I believe it would have been a different world.
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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

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ANTIFA surprised to discover it is an organization

VARIOUS LOCATIONS AROUND THE WORLD – Following President Donald Trump’s announcement that the United States is designating ANTIFA as a terrorist organization, the loosely connected individuals around the world involved in the movement to oppose fascism were surprised to discover that they are in fact all one big organization.

“All this time all I thought I was doing was taking direct action to fight nazis,” stated self-professed anti-fascist Mattheus Grant of Eugene, OR. “But when I learned that I’m actually a member of an organization, I got so excited! Maybe we can get an office now?”

Across the internet, large swaths of otherwise barely connected people who happen to hold the same belief system began speculating if they, too, now constitute an “organization”. Formal requests for recognition have already been filed on behalf of vegetarians, people who insist on continuing to watch Riverdale, and Libras.

The United States is currently only able to classify foreign entities as terrorist organizations, leading American adherents to the ANTIFA movement to the further surprise discovery that they are in fact now foreigners.

“No kidding!” responded Alana Weaver – a Chicago area clothing designer who believes that the slow creep of fascism must be opposed at all costs – upon learning that she was now a foreigner. “Do I get to pick what country I’m from now? Can I be Norweigian?”

Due to the fact that the U.S. currently has no domestic terrorism law, ANTIFA represents the first domestic entity to be legally designated as a terrorist organization. When asked if this meant that the federal government would proceed to change the designation for such entities not currently designated as terrorist organizations like the Ku Klux Klan, the Aryan Nations, the National Rifle Association, or the police, the White House declined to comment.

The leaders of ANTIFA could not be reached for comment because they do not exist.
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Darren
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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

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BoSoxGal wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:20 pm
The destruction of property is sad, but it is not a tragedy. Insurance will allow business owners and churches to rebuild.

Many business owners carry minimal insurance and some nothing.

"Across the street, Hassan Hamid estimated that he’d lost about $100,000 worth of equipment from the shop, Power Wireless, that he started eight years ago. He’d boarded the place up both nights, he said, but that didn’t stop looters from getting inside.

“I don’t even have enough cash to bring this business back again,” said Hamid, who is originally from Ethiopia. “I do not know what I have to do right now.” But he added that he, too, wants to see justice for Floyd."

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/05/2 ... -for-floyd
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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

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Apparently there is a particular breed of rabid animal that will never learn.
Seattle Cop Kneels on Protestor's Neck, Fellow Officer Has to Pull Him Off

Protests have been going on throughout the country following George Floyd's death. In many parts of the nation, citizens have been arrested amidst these demonstrations. According to TMZ, those attending the protest demonstrations in Seattle encountered a potentially deadly situation, as a cop was seen kneeling on a protestor's neck in a similar manner to the way that officer Derek Chauvin killed Floyd. As the scene unfolded, numerous people who were at the scene told the officer to take his knee off of the protestor's neck before a fellow officer finally stepped in.

In the video in question, two officers can be seen arresting and handcuffing a male protestor in Seattle. Although, the situation quickly turned serious when one of the cops placed his knee on the man's neck. The officer, whose knee was still on the protestor's neck, could be seen glancing at the crowd at one point as they yelled out to try to help. Ultimately, the other officer on the scene stepped in and finally pulled his fellow officer's knee off of the man.
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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

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""There's a lot of detail to go through in your contract that most people don't really understand until a situation like this happens," Sharkey said. "It's a lot more complicated than just paying a $500 deductible and thinking the rest is going to be covered."

Minority business owners may not have the credit or assets to withstand closures as long as white business owners with more resources, she said. The council, and other metro business associations like it, try to fill that gap and provide guidance, but insurance claims won't stop some businesses from completely fading away."

"For Moore, she's frustrated when people bring up the fact she's insured because it ignores the work she put into the building and the items she won't get back.

"When you get it out the mud – meaning when you get it on your own, no handouts ... someone just handing you money doesn't equate," she said. "It's deeper than that.""

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 300736002/
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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

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Darren wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:45 pm
BoSoxGal wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:20 pm
The destruction of property is sad, but it is not a tragedy. Insurance will allow business owners and churches to rebuild.

Many business owners carry minimal insurance and some nothing.

"Across the street, Hassan Hamid estimated that he’d lost about $100,000 worth of equipment from the shop, Power Wireless, that he started eight years ago. He’d boarded the place up both nights, he said, but that didn’t stop looters from getting inside.

“I don’t even have enough cash to bring this business back again,” said Hamid, who is originally from Ethiopia. “I do not know what I have to do right now.” But he added that he, too, wants to see justice for Floyd."

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/05/2 ... -for-floyd
That is sad, but it is also more foolish than a tragedy. Any property owner who knowingly chooses to fail to purchase insurance runs the risk of ruin from act of God or civil unrest. Insurance is generally not that expensive and should be considered an essential cost of business same as rent/mortgage, utilities, etc. Does he also have no liability insurance? What if someone is injured on his property? In addition to the legally required malpractice insurance, the first business expense I incurred when I opened my law practice was insurance to cover my equipment and liability for injury of any client entering the premises. That insurance would have covered me if rioters burned down my office, too.

You can beat this dead horse forever, Darren - nobody here is condoning or promoting the property destruction or theft accompanying these protests and perpetrated by a very small percentage of folks in the streets. But this property destruction is in no way equivalently abhorrent as the extrajudicial killing of George Floyd and many dozens of other citizens, many people of color, by police forces who are systematically racist and militarized in their interactions with the citizens they are sworn to PROTECT and SERVE.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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BoSoxGal
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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

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President Obama:
As millions of people across the country take to the streets and raise their voices in response to the killing of George Floyd and the ongoing problem of unequal justice, many people have reached out asking how we can sustain momentum to bring about real change.

Ultimately, it’s going to be up to a new generation of activists to shape strategies that best fit the times. But I believe there are some basic lessons to draw from past efforts that are worth remembering.

First, the waves of protests across the country represent a genuine and legitimate frustration over a decades-long failure to reform police practices and the broader criminal justice system in the United States. The overwhelming majority of participants have been peaceful, courageous, responsible, and inspiring. They deserve our respect and support, not condemnation — something that police in cities like Camden and Flint have commendably understood.

On the other hand, the small minority of folks who’ve resorted to violence in various forms, whether out of genuine anger or mere opportunism, are putting innocent people at risk, compounding the destruction of neighborhoods that are often already short on services and investment and detracting from the larger cause. I saw an elderly black woman being interviewed today in tears because the only grocery store in her neighborhood had been trashed. If history is any guide, that store may take years to come back. So let’s not excuse violence, or rationalize it, or participate in it. If we want our criminal justice system, and American society at large, to operate on a higher ethical code, then we have to model that code ourselves.

Second, I’ve heard some suggest that the recurrent problem of racial bias in our criminal justice system proves that only protests and direct action can bring about change, and that voting and participation in electoral politics is a waste of time. I couldn’t disagree more. The point of protest is to raise public awareness, to put a spotlight on injustice, and to make the powers that be uncomfortable; in fact, throughout American history, it’s often only been in response to protests and civil disobedience that the political system has even paid attention to marginalized communities. But eventually, aspirations have to be translated into specific laws and institutional practices — and in a democracy, that only happens when we elect government officials who are responsive to our demands.

Moreover, it’s important for us to understand which levels of government have the biggest impact on our criminal justice system and police practices. When we think about politics, a lot of us focus only on the presidency and the federal government. And yes, we should be fighting to make sure that we have a president, a Congress, a U.S. Justice Department, and a federal judiciary that actually recognize the ongoing, corrosive role that racism plays in our society and want to do something about it. But the elected officials who matter most in reforming police departments and the criminal justice system work at the state and local levels.

It’s mayors and county executives that appoint most police chiefs and negotiate collective bargaining agreements with police unions. It’s district attorneys and state’s attorneys that decide whether or not to investigate and ultimately charge those involved in police misconduct. Those are all elected positions. In some places, police review boards with the power to monitor police conduct are elected as well. Unfortunately, voter turnout in these local races is usually pitifully low, especially among young people — which makes no sense given the direct impact these offices have on social justice issues, not to mention the fact that who wins and who loses those seats is often determined by just a few thousand, or even a few hundred, votes.

So the bottom line is this: if we want to bring about real change, then the choice isn’t between protest and politics. We have to do both. We have to mobilize to raise awareness, and we have to organize and cast our ballots to make sure that we elect candidates who will act on reform.

Finally, the more specific we can make demands for criminal justice and police reform, the harder it will be for elected officials to just offer lip service to the cause and then fall back into business as usual once protests have gone away. The content of that reform agenda will be different for various communities. A big city may need one set of reforms; a rural community may need another. Some agencies will require wholesale rehabilitation; others should make minor improvements. Every law enforcement agency should have clear policies, including an independent body that conducts investigations of alleged misconduct. Tailoring reforms for each community will require local activists and organizations to do their research and educate fellow citizens in their community on what strategies work best.

But as a starting point, here’s a report and toolkit developed by the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights and based on the work of the Task Force on 21st Century Policing that I formed when I was in the White House. And if you’re interested in taking concrete action, we’ve also created a dedicated site at the Obama Foundation to aggregate and direct you to useful resources and organizations who’ve been fighting the good fight at the local and national levels for years.

I recognize that these past few months have been hard and dispiriting — that the fear, sorrow, uncertainty, and hardship of a pandemic have been compounded by tragic reminders that prejudice and inequality still shape so much of American life. But watching the heightened activism of young people in recent weeks, of every race and every station, makes me hopeful. If, going forward, we can channel our justifiable anger into peaceful, sustained, and effective action, then this moment can be a real turning point in our nation’s long journey to live up to our highest ideals.

Let’s get to work.
Here’s the link so you can access the hyperlinks within:
https://medium.com/@BarackObama/how-to- ... a209806067
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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

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Big RR
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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

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the really sad thing about that statement is that it includes Nixon; when he was president he was the last voice I wanted to hear about anything, let alone crises like this. But compared to a minute of Trump, I'd voluntarily listen to a decade of Nixon. I honestly hope he keeps his mouth shut, but the purveyor of "when the looting starts, the shooting starts" just can't keep quiet for long.
Last edited by Big RR on Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

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And wouldn't it be nice if someone on his staff had the sense—and the courage!—to take his phone away and smash it with a hammer.



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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

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Scooter wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:30 pm
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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

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An agitated Trump encourages governors to use aggressive tactics on protesters
Trump said the "whole world was laughing at Minneapolis over the police station getting burned," referring to the city where protests began last week after the death of an unarmed black man who was being taken into police custody.

In a back-and-forth with Democratic Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz, Trump said the state was "a laughingstock all over the world" for not responding harshly enough during a first evening of protests.

"So bad a few nights ago that the people wouldn't have minded an occupying force," Trump said. "I wish we had an occupying force in there.

On the phone call, Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker told Trump the nation was craving a steady hand from the top.
"Rhetoric coming out of the White House is making it worse, people are experiencing real pain," Pritzker, a Democrat, told the President. "We've got to have national leadership calling for calm and legitimate concern for protestors."

"I don't like your rhetoric that much either," Trump fired back. "You could have done much better on coronavirus."
The message to governors came as Trump and his advisers were continuing to debate the wisdom of a national address following the protests, one of which outside the White House caused him and his family to retreat to an underground bunker on Friday night.
This man is pathologically delusional. I hope he is crushed in November and ends up in silver bracelets. I have never loathed another living human being so much in my life.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

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America 2020 - allegedly the most free society on earth, with the strongest protections of freedom of speech.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

Post by Bicycle Bill »

BoSoxGal wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:11 pm
Darren wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:45 pm
BoSoxGal wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:20 pm
The destruction of property is sad, but it is not a tragedy. Insurance will allow business owners and churches to rebuild.

Many business owners carry minimal insurance and some nothing.

"Across the street, Hassan Hamid estimated that he’d lost about $100,000 worth of equipment from the shop, Power Wireless, that he started eight years ago. He’d boarded the place up both nights, he said, but that didn’t stop looters from getting inside.

“I don’t even have enough cash to bring this business back again,” said Hamid, who is originally from Ethiopia. “I do not know what I have to do right now.” But he added that he, too, wants to see justice for Floyd."

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/05/2 ... -for-floyd
That is sad, but it is also more foolish than a tragedy. Any property owner who knowingly chooses to fail to purchase insurance runs the risk of ruin from act of God or civil unrest. Insurance is generally not that expensive and should be considered an essential cost of business same as rent/mortgage, utilities, etc. Does he also have no liability insurance? What if someone is injured on his property? In addition to the legally required malpractice insurance, the first business expense I incurred when I opened my law practice was insurance to cover my equipment and liability for injury of any client entering the premises. That insurance would have covered me if rioters burned down my office, too.
BSG, I believe a lot of insurance policies generally exclude riots/civil unrest and acts of war as events for which they will indemnify the policyholder — unless perhaps they get a special rider clause to specifically include these events (and if they did, I would love to know just what factors the actuaries would use to go about determining the level of risk and an appropriate premium).  And as for carrying minimal insurance; sometimes you considered the odds of something happening and make your decisions accordingly.

For example — I live far enough away from the river and on high enough ground that I choose to not carry flood insurance; and even though the epicenter of the worst earthquake in US history (the New Madrid earthquakes of 1811-1812, which were estimated to be a between 7.5 and 8.5 on the Richter scale and compares to the San Francisco earthquake of 7.8 ) was located only about 500 miles south of me, I also choose to not purchase earthquake insurance too.  Since my car is legally old enough to drink, smoke, and vote I do not carry collision or comprehensive insurance on it, just the legal minimum for liability, and for the record I am also uninsured if a UFO were to decide to teleport me and my domicile aboard and haul me off to whatever distant planet/galaxy it came from.

In addition, most contracts, including insurance policies, include something called a force majeure clause, and I'm sure the insurance companies have already figured out how to work something like this to their best advantage as well.

Sorry, BSG, I think you're talking through your hat with regard to this particular point.
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Re: There is war in the streets of America tonight

Post by Big RR »

BB--most modern business and personal property damage policies do not exclude riots/civil unrest, but do exclude acts of war. As for force majeure, I don't recall seeing them regarding payouts under insurance contracts (and am not sure how they could be included, since the insurer is pretty much insuring the insured party for just that--if lightning were to strike the house, it could be called an "act of god" , but the insurer would have to pay. Now I could see a force majeure clause coming onto play if the insurer had a problem which delayed its payment for a reasonable period, which might be where you have seen such clauses. but you are right, you can choose to lower premiums by deleting or limiting certain coverages (flood is one which few people outside of flood plains carry), but I always advise people to read up on coinsurance if you choose to limit the amount of your property coverage below replacement value; I've known a few people who were royally screwed by that.

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